RE: Fast should mean scary: Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
Mermaid said:
Raize said:
On the other end of the spectrum it's very irritating when you have TDIs keeping up with you when driving your 80's sportscar at 11/10ths.
They are in a different race.
The race to prove they're driving a fast car, honest! OK, my daily has a big wing on the back, but the sheer number of diesel A4/3-series/etc. drivers who feel the need to try and prove how fast their car is against mine staggers me...usually now it's a case of 'off you go, stroke your
I'd far rather have fun than drive banzai-quickly...regardless of whether some sad-sack in a box thinks he's "taken a scalp"...
Raize said:
On the other end of the spectrum it's very irritating when you have TDIs keeping up with you when driving your 80's sportscar at 11/10ths.
How often does this happen? Although PH is full of paranoia about people in coupés being shown-up by turbodiesels, in my world, I rarely encounter drivers who like to pedal their cars along briskly, and I often drive on fairly entertaining roads.
Accelerating between bunches of cars on the motorway doesn't really count.
Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 14th November 22:19
I agree with the article but what is the conclusion? Should manufacturers stop producing more powerful engines? Should they not try to produce better tyres, suspension etc?
I think we are in a win-win situation. Everyone gets what they want. You want an older more involving car? Good. You want to pose/have the skill to drive an F12 on the limit? Good.
I think we are in a win-win situation. Everyone gets what they want. You want an older more involving car? Good. You want to pose/have the skill to drive an F12 on the limit? Good.
Yes.
The only time Ihave ever come close to the limits of the Granturismo's grip and performance is on a wet Road through the Brecon Beacons with no other cars to be seen. As I live in London, that happens once in a blue moon.
A few weeks ago, I took the (1964) Alfa to Goodwood as part of an Italian exotica convoy (Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati) organised by HR Owen. There was an early morning Sunday run from the M3 to the circuit. I am sure it was a gentle run for the modern stuff, but the effort and concentration to keep up in the Alfa was something else. It was all squealing tyres, twitchy axles, and a few hairy moments under heavy braking. I arrived absolutely buzzing.
However, do I want to drive the little Alfa day in, day out? Of course note. It would be a complete pain in the arse.
As time goes by, I think the ideal approach is a little run around of some sort for the daily grind, and a properly sorted classic for weekend fun. And whilst I love the Alfa, I would probably say the most fun I had was in my old 1973 911 which was everything you could wish for (before it failed its MOT with a hole in the floor the size of a football...).
The only time Ihave ever come close to the limits of the Granturismo's grip and performance is on a wet Road through the Brecon Beacons with no other cars to be seen. As I live in London, that happens once in a blue moon.
A few weeks ago, I took the (1964) Alfa to Goodwood as part of an Italian exotica convoy (Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati) organised by HR Owen. There was an early morning Sunday run from the M3 to the circuit. I am sure it was a gentle run for the modern stuff, but the effort and concentration to keep up in the Alfa was something else. It was all squealing tyres, twitchy axles, and a few hairy moments under heavy braking. I arrived absolutely buzzing.
However, do I want to drive the little Alfa day in, day out? Of course note. It would be a complete pain in the arse.
As time goes by, I think the ideal approach is a little run around of some sort for the daily grind, and a properly sorted classic for weekend fun. And whilst I love the Alfa, I would probably say the most fun I had was in my old 1973 911 which was everything you could wish for (before it failed its MOT with a hole in the floor the size of a football...).
Well I'm obviously not PH enough! I want my car to fulfil a number of functions and most of the 'real world fun wagons' that are pointed to in this thread are simply not up to the job in many ways. I only occasionally want to drive briskly, but I want a safe, comfortable, practical car that looks good EVERY time I drive it.
I also don't agree that you need to be driving the doors off to enjoy a sports car - my car feels good just flowing with traffic and when there is a chance to make better progress it feels great then too.
Not sure what the problem is but then I am one of the average drivers.
I also don't agree that you need to be driving the doors off to enjoy a sports car - my car feels good just flowing with traffic and when there is a chance to make better progress it feels great then too.
Not sure what the problem is but then I am one of the average drivers.
MC Bodge said:
Raize said:
On the other end of the spectrum it's very irritating when you have TDIs keeping up with you when driving your 80's sportscar at 11/10ths.
How often does this happen?andybu said:
Spot on Mr Trent, as so many of us have said..
My "best" car, for that nigh - perfect mix of just enough power, brakes, roadholding & innate balance was a series 2 Porsche 944. Everything worked in harmony and you could drive it quickly but safely on most de-restricted roads.
I've owned more powerful/faster stuff since but they've not improved on the 944S2 as a daily driver. That was the last car I would occasionally slide round a corner on a wet or greasy UK public road, late at night & all quiet.
I'm not pining for the "old days", however. As others, again, have said, the modern electronic aids do keep things in check now that so much more power is available.
Put modern sports tyres on a 944 S2 and evertything changes. Hello huge speed potential and a car that feels less engaging at 70mph. A 944 S2 (or turbo) on modern tyres, "fun at normal speeds", don't think so.My "best" car, for that nigh - perfect mix of just enough power, brakes, roadholding & innate balance was a series 2 Porsche 944. Everything worked in harmony and you could drive it quickly but safely on most de-restricted roads.
I've owned more powerful/faster stuff since but they've not improved on the 944S2 as a daily driver. That was the last car I would occasionally slide round a corner on a wet or greasy UK public road, late at night & all quiet.
I'm not pining for the "old days", however. As others, again, have said, the modern electronic aids do keep things in check now that so much more power is available.
Dan Trent said:
loudlashadjuster said:
Bit OT but, Röhrl. His name is Walter Röhrl.
Not Rohrl, or Roarl, or Roll, or Rule.
Röhrl.
It's not exactly hard to use the correct character in this day and age, and I reckon he's earned the right to have his name spelled correctly on an 'enthusiast' website like PH, no?
Carry on
The CMS goes a bit funny with accents unfortunately so we have to trim them off. Being strictly correct I could have spelt it Roehrl as an alternative to putting the umlaut on but then everyone would have said I'd spelt it wrong anyway. Not Rohrl, or Roarl, or Roll, or Rule.
Röhrl.
It's not exactly hard to use the correct character in this day and age, and I reckon he's earned the right to have his name spelled correctly on an 'enthusiast' website like PH, no?
Carry on
Can't win!
Good article - says what I've been trying (and failing) to say for years! I was going to try to write more, but I won't. Save this.
It's a crying f
king shame that interaction and adjustability are sold as gimmicks now.
The GTR ruined sports cars. Now suddenly everyone has to have an automatic because they're faster.
The last couple of decades of petrol powered mass transport before electric cars take hold, and people are spending it in automatics. It's pathetic.
It's a crying f
king shame that interaction and adjustability are sold as gimmicks now. The GTR ruined sports cars. Now suddenly everyone has to have an automatic because they're faster.
The last couple of decades of petrol powered mass transport before electric cars take hold, and people are spending it in automatics. It's pathetic.
My old caterham r300 limits were too high for the road. Unacceptably dangerous to get enough energy into the chassis to wake it up.... Used to ride a Duke 748r and that was the same... an ironing board to ride until you got it on a track and was able to put enough energy into it, to make the chasis and suspension work...
thin tyres, light weight, slower speeds, MORE FUN ON THE ROAD.
thin tyres, light weight, slower speeds, MORE FUN ON THE ROAD.
debateaments said:
I agree with the article but what is the conclusion? Should manufacturers stop producing more powerful engines? Should they not try to produce better tyres, suspension etc?
I think we are in a win-win situation. Everyone gets what they want. You want an older more involving car? Good. You want to pose/have the skill to drive an F12 on the limit? Good.
Very good point.I think we are in a win-win situation. Everyone gets what they want. You want an older more involving car? Good. You want to pose/have the skill to drive an F12 on the limit? Good.
There is so much choice in the car market now that if you want a car that is scary to drive at any speed there are plenty available (TVRs, old Landies, Skoda Estelle, Reliant Tobin, anything old) and if you want something that numbs the senses (any modern TDI), all are now available.
I'm glad the Bugatti Veyron is on sale but have no desire to own one (for all the reasons raised in this thread) but isn't it great that Caterfields, Morgans and all the used old stuff with skinny tyres are out there too.
If you want to be scared/stimulated at any speed, you still can be.
Kenny Powers said:
Whilst I agree in part, I struggle to understand the problem some people appear to have with modern cars.
Buy an old one?
By the sounds of it, quite a few of us have!Buy an old one?
The difficulty I have with modern cars (and this is true even of run of the mill hatchbacks imo) is that they don't feel at all like you're going anywhere near as quickly as you are. Until you're going quick enough to feel the thing do anything interesting, then you're going way, way too fast. Then it's scary but only because you know that if it goes wrong... you're f
ked.By comparison, do 50mph in a classic mini and it feels like you're going along at eleventy billion miles per hour.
It's down to perspective. Some of us like to have a mess around at sensible speeds to be entertained, some liked to be scared by the envelope of performance available even if they are never able to use it.
Unfortunately, a lot of people judge a car on it's statistics before anything else. Hell, my girlfriend didn't even drive her brand new car before she bought it as "it's just a car isn't it?"!
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