RE: Porsche 718 Boxster - full details
Discussion
Fish said:
We rarely get chance to wring the neck of our NA cars
Speaking for yourself, there. I'm disappointed to see the Boxster suffering this sad fate. My dad has a Boxster S with the PDK transmission and it's probably the best sportscar I've ever been in. I was dubious about the transmission at first but then I saw it in action and was convinced. That engine though, and that barking flat six note will be sorely missed. We didn't have any difficulty wringing it out as we scored across Northumberland either.
Thankyou4calling said:
I think many are a bit dismissive about the average Porsche Boxster owner.
They have deliberately chosen the car with only two seats, a sporting pedigree and i think they know how many cylinders it has. not all but most.
Put one of these in a car park and it will attract massive attention way beyond its price tag because it looks fantastic, drives brilliantly and it is a Porsche and that is a huge draw.
Despite what many say, Porsche is still very much seen as an aspirational brand so to get in a brand new one that has 300 BHP, hits 60 in 5 seconds and returns 30 MPG is quite something for £41,000. it is a bargain i think.
A poster above said he would wait until the S was 15k in 5 years time, I really can't see that happening.
The boxter / cayman range may have presented Porsche with a bit of a positioning problem. If one bears in mind that Porsche engineers were able to make the inherited, engine hanging out at the back format of the 911 work so well, imagine what they can achieve with a clean sheet mid engine design?They have deliberately chosen the car with only two seats, a sporting pedigree and i think they know how many cylinders it has. not all but most.
Put one of these in a car park and it will attract massive attention way beyond its price tag because it looks fantastic, drives brilliantly and it is a Porsche and that is a huge draw.
Despite what many say, Porsche is still very much seen as an aspirational brand so to get in a brand new one that has 300 BHP, hits 60 in 5 seconds and returns 30 MPG is quite something for £41,000. it is a bargain i think.
A poster above said he would wait until the S was 15k in 5 years time, I really can't see that happening.
It `seems' they adjusted the performance of each model to separate them from its nearest priced
stablemate. A further advantage may also be size, boxters and Caymans are smaller, (not least because they don't have the almost unusable dicky seats in the back) because some of the 911`s seem to be getting pretty wide at the back, to cover the road roller back wheels fitted to some to get the power down. So getting one in the sort of garage many will have will be somewhat easier, than with a longer, wider 911.
Not sure what the overall performance difference will be between the NA 6 and turbo 4 cars, but the NA 6 would be my choice for normal road use, (and the noise is IMHO better than a turbo 4, but that is just subjective), as for most normal road use it is likely to be adequate.
chrispmartha said:
unsprung said:
Reflecting for a moment on the engineering of all this...
The horsepower and torque are impressive whilst the CO2 figures are outright astonishing.
Imagine the CO2 and other emissions on a similarly-powerful vehicle of 50 years ago. Or even on a modestly-powerful vehicle of that time.
Yeah but its all rubbish innit. Subaru were doing this 15 years ago... ;-)The horsepower and torque are impressive whilst the CO2 figures are outright astonishing.
Imagine the CO2 and other emissions on a similarly-powerful vehicle of 50 years ago. Or even on a modestly-powerful vehicle of that time.
EricE said:
Slow day at the office so I've attempted to overlay the old 981 Boxster power curve over the new one. Wasn't easy because the scales are completely off but you get the idea even though it may not be 100% accurate.
More power throughout the band, peaks slightly earlier but obviously higher and most importantly the "flat spot" is finally gone.
and torque:
Good stuff. So power builds evenly and smoothly.More power throughout the band, peaks slightly earlier but obviously higher and most importantly the "flat spot" is finally gone.
and torque:
Edited by EricE on Wednesday 27th January 14:36
chrispmartha said:
RoverP6B said:
Again - is it still possible to order a new Cockster with a six-cylinder engine?
If not, I'd buy a Mustang 5.0 instead.
Can you order a Mustang without a roof?If not, I'd buy a Mustang 5.0 instead.
My impression of driving Boxters is that they handle extremely well, and the driving position and feel of the car is just about spot on. I couldn't care less if they had a 2-cylinder engine as long as it sounded good, and gave you the power you need when you needed it. The revvy 6-pot works well in that respect (particularly in the S), but I'm reserving judgement for now.
HOWEVER - the F-Type is just as nice to hustle, it's available with a six-cylinder, and with the price hike of the Boxter, is now much more within reach. Porsche may well have shot themselves in the foot here.
Cotic said:
Errr... yes.
My impression of driving Boxters is that they handle extremely well, and the driving position and feel of the car is just about spot on. I couldn't care less if they had a 2-cylinder engine as long as it sounded good, and gave you the power you need when you needed it. The revvy 6-pot works well in that respect (particularly in the S), but I'm reserving judgement for now.
HOWEVER - the F-Type is just as nice to hustle, it's available with a six-cylinder, and with the price hike of the Boxter, is now much more within reach. Porsche may well have shot themselves in the foot here.
I wasn't being clever I genuinely didn't know wether they had made the convertable in RHD or not.My impression of driving Boxters is that they handle extremely well, and the driving position and feel of the car is just about spot on. I couldn't care less if they had a 2-cylinder engine as long as it sounded good, and gave you the power you need when you needed it. The revvy 6-pot works well in that respect (particularly in the S), but I'm reserving judgement for now.
HOWEVER - the F-Type is just as nice to hustle, it's available with a six-cylinder, and with the price hike of the Boxter, is now much more within reach. Porsche may well have shot themselves in the foot here.
the price Hike on the Boxster really Isn't that much, the HP and power figures however are. I reckon Porsche will be fine.
I've driven several previous gen Boxsters and a massive part of the appeal was engine. Grunty at low revs but loved to rev and the noise was very traditional Porsche gruffness at the low end which turned into that well known howl near the top. To me it's was a huge part of what made the Boxster such a joy to drive. I really don't know how they will manage to replicate that with a 2 litre turbo engine but I suspect they'll struggle.
I'm sure that Porsche will have done a great job on this. The numbers are impressive. It looks fine, if still a bit tinsel-tastic. It will go hard and slice / splice apexes nicely. It may even sound good for what it is (I certainly expect it to sound less mundane than your average 4 cylinder turbocharged shopping car).
But for me, a sports car a fundamentally emotive, indulgent and borderline irrational purchase. It should indulge in terms of its "feel" (as in all the senses as well as the response it evokes in the driver), feedback and dynamic response. Subjectively, I'm unconvinced that an FI'd 4 cylinder is going to satisfy and excite me in the response, character and delivery of its performance in the same way as a good nat-asp flat six. Irrespective of the technology or the fact that it's "bespoke", it will seem fundamentally less exotic, romantic and special to me. It may be that this is partly down to association (multi-cylinder cars have traditionally be the exception over here and thus more noticeable and special, particularly those with great singing voices to go with interesting levels of performance), but I know what sort of sound / character I like and with few exceptions (couple of Alfas, certain Hondas on full reheat, some racing cars) it tends to be more than 4 cylinders. All engine configs have crappy examples, so it's not absolute, but all things being equal I prefer the sound and response of a sporty, revvy engine with 5 plus cylinders to one with 4. They're just a bit more interesting to use/ listen to.
I think the 718 will still be a good sports car, just not one that will be right for those who like the qualities of the six. The change is made more acute by the complete absence of the six in the 718 model range - it was and is bloody good, aside from being a hallmark of the Porsche brand. There's no right or wrong to it but it feels like a shame to only be able to get that experience in a GT3/4 (which is not to say that a £40-50k car is attainable for most, let alone on weighing in at £100k+).
So I don't feel like a naysayer in the absolute sense. Just not someone excited by what is undoubtedly a more than decent car, mainly because it doesn't appeal more than what went before, even if it will likely still be capable of enjoyment. Happy for my expectations to be confounded, if I ever find myself in the position to drive one.
/wanders off to find footage / sound clips
But for me, a sports car a fundamentally emotive, indulgent and borderline irrational purchase. It should indulge in terms of its "feel" (as in all the senses as well as the response it evokes in the driver), feedback and dynamic response. Subjectively, I'm unconvinced that an FI'd 4 cylinder is going to satisfy and excite me in the response, character and delivery of its performance in the same way as a good nat-asp flat six. Irrespective of the technology or the fact that it's "bespoke", it will seem fundamentally less exotic, romantic and special to me. It may be that this is partly down to association (multi-cylinder cars have traditionally be the exception over here and thus more noticeable and special, particularly those with great singing voices to go with interesting levels of performance), but I know what sort of sound / character I like and with few exceptions (couple of Alfas, certain Hondas on full reheat, some racing cars) it tends to be more than 4 cylinders. All engine configs have crappy examples, so it's not absolute, but all things being equal I prefer the sound and response of a sporty, revvy engine with 5 plus cylinders to one with 4. They're just a bit more interesting to use/ listen to.
I think the 718 will still be a good sports car, just not one that will be right for those who like the qualities of the six. The change is made more acute by the complete absence of the six in the 718 model range - it was and is bloody good, aside from being a hallmark of the Porsche brand. There's no right or wrong to it but it feels like a shame to only be able to get that experience in a GT3/4 (which is not to say that a £40-50k car is attainable for most, let alone on weighing in at £100k+).
So I don't feel like a naysayer in the absolute sense. Just not someone excited by what is undoubtedly a more than decent car, mainly because it doesn't appeal more than what went before, even if it will likely still be capable of enjoyment. Happy for my expectations to be confounded, if I ever find myself in the position to drive one.
/wanders off to find footage / sound clips
Edited by Diesel Meister on Wednesday 27th January 16:50
RumbleOfThunder said:
There's nothing worse than aspiration luddites. Such is their immense level of talent, knowledge and supreme taste, they simply cannot derive pleasure in a vehicle with anything less than a Maranello V12. Ooh the responsiveness that I cannot live without! Pious superior nerds holding back advancement.
Shut up you absolute hipster. Its people like you that damage the motorsport industry. f
k off elsewhere if you want to drive an EV - theres a separate sub forum to keep you zealots away from the normal people. Nothing wrong with blowers, they only add to the experience IMO. Its the 4 banger bit I cant get my head around.
EricE said:
Slow day at the office so I've attempted to overlay the old 981 Boxster power curve over the new one. Wasn't easy because the scales are completely off but you get the idea even though it may not be 100% accurate.
Thanks for the effort, appreciated!EricE said:
More power throughout the band, peaks slightly earlier but obviously higher and most importantly the "flat spot" is finally gone.
Stupid question, am I the only one who actually 'likes' that flat spot.I think it gives it a very well defined jekyll and hyde character. When cold or just getting from A to B, I tend to stay in the 1500 to 3500 rpm range. It has 'adequate' power to crawl along in traffic, and the sudden surge reminds me to shift.
When wanting to have some fun, I will stay above 4000 rpm, gear ratio is perfect to stay there.
I know that linear is better, but every time I get over the magic 4000rpm and it suddenly starts pulling, I smile.
p.s. for me personally, the 6 cylinder boxer made it a bit 'special', with it gone, I will be more likely to look at alternatives. Not because of performance, but simply because of character.
Cotic said:
HOWEVER - the F-Type is just as nice to hustle, it's available with a six-cylinder, and with the price hike of the Boxter, is now much more within reach. Porsche may well have shot themselves in the foot here.
That's a good point. Supercharged V6 or a turbo 4. I know where my money would go given the choice. F-Type is immeasurably better looking too IMO. Mustang of course is way under £40k but not really the same thing.
unpc said:
Cotic said:
HOWEVER - the F-Type is just as nice to hustle, it's available with a six-cylinder, and with the price hike of the Boxter, is now much more within reach. Porsche may well have shot themselves in the foot here.
That's a good point. Supercharged V6 or a turbo 4. I know where my money would go given the choice. F-Type is immeasurably better looking too IMO. Mustang of course is way under £40k but not really the same thing.
chrispmartha said:
RoverP6B said:
I believe you can. However, I was thinking more of the Gayman or whatever they call the hardtop version now.
gayman ha I get it, I see what you did there, funny, no seriously ;-)Anyway i believe you can get a 6 cylinder cayman, in fact thats all you can get
scenario8 said:
chrispmartha said:
RoverP6B said:
I believe you can. However, I was thinking more of the Gayman or whatever they call the hardtop version now.
gayman ha I get it, I see what you did there, funny, no seriously ;-)Anyway i believe you can get a 6 cylinder cayman, in fact thats all you can get
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff