RE: New TVR - the car

[KarlMac]

It needs as much kit as a poverty spec super mini. So AC, electric windows and a reasonable stereo with usb/blue tooth. These aren't luxuries but allow a normal person to use the car for long journeys in reasonable comfort. Don't get me wrong I like a lightweight special (my last car was a stripped out Evo) but a dreaded a 2hr motorway drive in it. If you want to go without these there is already a number of cars (ginetta, radical, caterham) the you can suffer in.

Air con is essential if they intend to sell anywhere slightly warmer than the UK.

[jamieduff1981]

I think it's worth remembering that Wheeler era TVRs had electric windows and optional air con anyway. I don't think full on dual zone climate control etc is necessary, but modern a/c mechanicals aren't quite as big and heavy as those from the 80s etc, and electronics to let you measure the temperature in the cabin and set a target isn't too onerous.

TVRs never had electric seats etc, and IMO don't need them. These aren't really supposed to be London commuter cars - trying to make cars such is why so many sporty cars are quite dull.

[jamieduff1981]

GranCab said:

jamieduff1981 said:

I don't accept that's the final word in the matter at all.

There are always people who like to be contrary.

Since "sports cars" are so mainstream now with all the frills that used to be the reason to buy a large saloon cars, they have lost the sportiness.

Some people just want to be awkward. Some people like a challenge. Some people just want to see what life is like with all the bullst stripped back.

Why does anyone in their right mind buy a motorcycle? They aren't very comfortable and most don't have cup holders. Why do some people go out in boats with masts and sails when engines were invented long ago? Why does anyone spend £50k+ and thousands of hours building a Cobra replica kit car when you can buy a Gayman for that money?

Is a big lardy automatic with electric seats and cup holders what most people want? Yes because the fannies are all as soft as ste. Are there still some people who are a bit unorthodox who thinks something with 8 cylinders, rear wheel drive, a limited slip diff, a gearstick, 3 pedals and a steering wheel all wrapped up in a bold body is great value at the same sort of price as all the mass-market stuff aimed at the vanilla people? Apparently so.

It's a poor get-rich-quick scheme, granted, but there are still those of us who snigger at those who want AWD in their "sports car".

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?memberId=350570&tab=2&h=0&f=0&t=0 ... lol

What's funny? Besides your mastery of forum tags of course ...

[essexstu]

The new car is a GT car, not a track day focused car so will be used to do long road trips such as French Alps, Scandinavia etc so will need certain degree of comfort and aids. In built sat nav in my experience is not necessary as they are usually crap and a pain to update. Why option a £2k sat nav when you can get a very good Garmin or Tom Tom for £100?

I think basic AC would be desirable in a coupe design to be a grand router. Doesn't need the whole dual climate control stuff though.

[DonkeyApple]

TooMany2cvs said:

Sarcastic, not arsey, if you don't mind.

Honestly, a satnav is NOT essential. FAR from it. We used to have one shared in the office - Garmin, IIRC - it was, frankly, st. I gave up using it after a few trips, because it was much more of a pain in the arse than a benefit. As for aircon in a TVR... (and don't even start me on the person who said electric seats were essential...)

If you want to sell an £80k plus road car to enough people to have a profitable and sustainable business then you do need satnav as an option. That's how today's world works.

And this new car is a coupe with a snug cabin and a large V8 and it isn't going to be weighed down with masses of insulation. Aircon is essential.

This isn't going to be a stripped out, weekend special. It needs to cater for the daily market and most people who spend £80k on a car do not wish to arrive at the office to start their day sticky and sweaty.

[TooMany2cvs]

DonkeyApple said:

This isn't going to be a stripped out, weekend special. It needs to cater for the daily market and most people who spend £80k on a car do not wish to arrive at the office to start their day sticky and sweaty.

OK, so they ARE throwing the TVR DNA and USPs away in favour of chasing the bland mass-market.

[fatbutt]

DonkeyApple said:

If you want to sell an £80k plus road car to enough people to have a profitable and sustainable business then you do need satnav as an option. That's how today's world works.

And this new car is a coupe with a snug cabin and a large V8 and it isn't going to be weighed down with masses of insulation. Aircon is essential.

This isn't going to be a stripped out, weekend special. It needs to cater for the daily market and most people who spend £80k on a car do not wish to arrive at the office to start their day sticky and sweaty.

Its not an £80K car, its a £60K+ car. The £80K only applies to the limited edition early adopter version.

The more this car resembles others in terms of spec, etc. the more it will be judged as one of the pack and you'll have journo's arguing over the aesthetics of the fuel filler cap as a means to differentiate them on a group test. It is perfectly viable for this level of production to stray from the pack if you offer an experience that gives the car a USP. Try to compete on equal terms with the crowd then you'll lose. If you get a benefit from not having things then that will outweigh the slight inconvenience in some buyers eyes.

[Civpilot]

TooMany2cvs said:

DonkeyApple said:

This isn't going to be a stripped out, weekend special. It needs to cater for the daily market and most people who spend £80k on a car do not wish to arrive at the office to start their day sticky and sweaty.

OK, so they ARE throwing the TVR DNA and USPs away in favour of chasing the bland mass-market.

Yeah, because the last 'GT' car that TVR made was so stripped out and track focused...



ps. That car also has Air-Con as a factory option

[DonkeyApple]

fatbutt said:

DonkeyApple said:

If you want to sell an £80k plus road car to enough people to have a profitable and sustainable business then you do need satnav as an option. That's how today's world works.

And this new car is a coupe with a snug cabin and a large V8 and it isn't going to be weighed down with masses of insulation. Aircon is essential.

This isn't going to be a stripped out, weekend special. It needs to cater for the daily market and most people who spend £80k on a car do not wish to arrive at the office to start their day sticky and sweaty.

Its not an £80K car, its a £60K+ car. The £80K only applies to the limited edition early adopter version.

The more this car resembles others in terms of spec, etc. the more it will be judged as one of the pack and you'll have journo's arguing over the aesthetics of the fuel filler cap as a means to differentiate them on a group test. It is perfectly viable for this level of production to stray from the pack if you offer an experience that gives the car a USP. Try to compete on equal terms with the crowd then you'll lose. If you get a benefit from not having things then that will outweigh the slight inconvenience in some buyers eyes.

The first 500 cars are £80k+ and they will be judged by the media against the mass produced equivalents. People can just not chose aircon or the infotainment system from the options list but to not have either would be a silly marketing error. Having no option of aircon would simply be a very stupid thing to do.

And I really don't think there will be a £60k car. And even if it is, how many £60K cars don't have the option of aircon?

[DonkeyApple]

TooMany2cvs said:

DonkeyApple said:

This isn't going to be a stripped out, weekend special. It needs to cater for the daily market and most people who spend £80k on a car do not wish to arrive at the office to start their day sticky and sweaty.

OK, so they ARE throwing the TVR DNA and USPs away in favour of chasing the bland mass-market.

Do you actually know what a TVR is? If they are going to retain the ethos of the earlier cars then they will very obviously have aircon as an option, it will not be a stripped out weekend special and people will use them as their daily. And given how cheap satnav is these days and it being included in most infotainment systems then it is hard to imagine, whether society should be allowed it and not forced to use old paper maps, that it also won't be an option.

[Impasse]

TooMany2cvs said:

OK, so they ARE throwing the TVR DNA and USPs away in favour of chasing the bland mass-market.

Is it because the market has changed? It could be argued that's why the factory closed. No one wanted what they were making and if that's still true of today then why make the same product if the market won't purchase it?

[essexstu]

DonkeyApple said:

TooMany2cvs said:

DonkeyApple said:

This isn't going to be a stripped out, weekend special. It needs to cater for the daily market and most people who spend £80k on a car do not wish to arrive at the office to start their day sticky and sweaty.

OK, so they ARE throwing the TVR DNA and USPs away in favour of chasing the bland mass-market.

Do you actually know what a TVR is? If they are going to retain the ethos of the earlier cars then they will very obviously have aircon as an option, it will not be a stripped out weekend special and people will use them as their daily. And given how cheap satnav is these days and it being included in most infotainment systems then it is hard to imagine, whether society should be allowed it and not forced to use old paper maps, that it also won't be an option.

I have A/C in my 2000 Tuscan so TVR did do A/C on their SP6 cars. I can't ever remember using the A/C though as I usually drive the Tuscan when the weather is nice and the roof is taken off so A/C pointless. Different with a coupe car of course which I why I agree that A/C has to be part of the spec. You can't have a coupe GT without A/C in this day be it a £20k car or a £80k car. It is expected by everyone now. Sat Nav however is something that should be an option an I personally would not spec it on a TVR. I know where I am going most of the time and if it is a journey abroad or somewhere new then I would just plug in a Garmin or use my phone. £2000 on a Sat Nav system is a waste of money as far as I am concerned. If the car is a daily driver then 90% of drivers will be doing the same journey anyway so why need a Sat Nav? Better to spend the £2k on something better like nicer wheels, upgraded leather interior etc. I think the new car should also have a decent sound system with blue tooth etc again as it is a GT car in theory it will be used for long journeys.

[chrispj]

Needs single zone climate control IMO, this is the only thing that irritates me about my 2011 Evora - the 'guess what point on the hot/cold dial' game to try and get a consistently good temperature in hot weather. This then highlights the awkward position of the controls, whereas with climate control I'd set it once and then never touch it again and not be bothered by it. Les said it won't have a bespoke infotainment system so a good double DIN touchscreen, decently faired in, Xenons/LEDs (not adaptive as the big manufacturers can't get them not to dazzle other road users so what hope would TVR have!) and cruise control and that's all it needs for me. As few buttons on the steering wheel as possible, keep it simple, I hate the latest Porsche/BMW/ and virtually everyone else's offerings with buttons and dials with a passion!

[DonkeyApple]

essexstu said:

DonkeyApple said:

TooMany2cvs said:

DonkeyApple said:

This isn't going to be a stripped out, weekend special. It needs to cater for the daily market and most people who spend £80k on a car do not wish to arrive at the office to start their day sticky and sweaty.

OK, so they ARE throwing the TVR DNA and USPs away in favour of chasing the bland mass-market.

Do you actually know what a TVR is? If they are going to retain the ethos of the earlier cars then they will very obviously have aircon as an option, it will not be a stripped out weekend special and people will use them as their daily. And given how cheap satnav is these days and it being included in most infotainment systems then it is hard to imagine, whether society should be allowed it and not forced to use old paper maps, that it also won't be an option.

I have A/C in my 2000 Tuscan so TVR did do A/C on their SP6 cars. I can't ever remember using the A/C though as I usually drive the Tuscan when the weather is nice and the roof is taken off so A/C pointless. Different with a coupe car of course which I why I agree that A/C has to be part of the spec. You can't have a coupe GT without A/C in this day be it a £20k car or a £80k car. It is expected by everyone now. Sat Nav however is something that should be an option an I personally would not spec it on a TVR. I know where I am going most of the time and if it is a journey abroad or somewhere new then I would just plug in a Garmin or use my phone. £2000 on a Sat Nav system is a waste of money as far as I am concerned. If the car is a daily driver then 90% of drivers will be doing the same journey anyway so why need a Sat Nav? Better to spend the £2k on something better like nicer wheels, upgraded leather interior etc. I think the new car should also have a decent sound system with blue tooth etc again as it is a GT car in theory it will be used for long journeys.

This is exactly what I was trying to say. I wouldn't spec satnav in what would be a toy for me. I don't need it as I don't use it and when I do I have a telephone that does the job. Other's own standalone units etc. But given that it is easy to include in a modern package then it would be foolish to omit it and risk giving the media both social and professional something to bh about etc.

The Griffs and Chimps could be specced with AC also. I didn't have it on my Griff (fond memories of being at the Nurburgring during that famous heatwave which saw temperatures in Germany hit 46c and being the only car in the convoy without it with the heat from the engine pouring into the cabin, the sun blasting from above and weirdly the faster your drove the hotter the wind felt!, mind you, I was also the only car to make it all the way home without breaking down and spent the trip back charging the battery of a Porsche while he used mine and then repeatedly swapping as his alternator had packed up) but I made sure I had it on the T350 and Typhon as they are both coupes that with their small windows, confined cabins and proximity to a belting hot drivetrain being able to keep cabin temperatures under some semblance of control is essential.

[Beefmeister]

Civpilot said:

Yeah, because the last 'GT' car that TVR made was so stripped out and track focused...



ps. That car also has Air-Con as a factory option

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I think that is an absolute dog's dinner. What a horrible mishmash of curves, blobs and weird shapes.

Reminds me of this:

[DonkeyApple]

chrispj said:

Needs single zone climate control IMO, this is the only thing that irritates me about my 2011 Evora - the 'guess what point on the hot/cold dial' game to try and get a consistently good temperature in hot weather. This then highlights the awkward position of the controls, whereas with climate control I'd set it once and then never touch it again and not be bothered by it. Les said it won't have a bespoke infotainment system so a good double DIN touchscreen, decently faired in, Xenons/LEDs (not adaptive as the big manufacturers can't get them not to dazzle other road users so what hope would TVR have!) and cruise control and that's all it needs for me. As few buttons on the steering wheel as possible, keep it simple, I hate the latest Porsche/BMW/ and virtually everyone else's offerings with buttons and dials with a passion!

Absolutely, as few buttons as possible and some nice, bespoke switchgear dials/buttons etc. Something that was very subtle but superb about the PW TVRs was the tactile nature of the cabin functions. Metal door handles (god how I hate the plastic tat expensive cars fob you off with today) and lovely, turned knobs instead of ghastly little buttons from an 80s Grundig stereo.

Can't honestly say I've ever thought about cruise control but as it can't be remotely difficult to fit then it probably makes sense.

[jamieduff1981]

Beefmeister said:

Civpilot said:

Yeah, because the last 'GT' car that TVR made was so stripped out and track focused...



ps. That car also has Air-Con as a factory option

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I think that is an absolute dog's dinner. What a horrible mishmash of curves, blobs and weird shapes.

Reminds me of this:

I like it aesthetically (maybe not that particular colour scheme) can understand why others may not. Objectively it is very ergonomic and improbably comfortable though. Everything you need is in just the right place. If it has a fault, it's that it is designed around an average/tall male adult in reasonably good physical shape. Shorter people and overweight people tend to struggle with them.

[essexstu]

jamieduff1981 said:

Beefmeister said:

Civpilot said:

Yeah, because the last 'GT' car that TVR made was so stripped out and track focused...



ps. That car also has Air-Con as a factory option

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I think that is an absolute dog's dinner. What a horrible mishmash of curves, blobs and weird shapes.

Reminds me of this:

I like it aesthetically (maybe not that particular colour scheme) can understand why others may not. Objectively it is very ergonomic and improbably comfortable though. Everything you need is in just the right place. If it has a fault, it's that it is designed around an average/tall male adult in reasonably good physical shape. Shorter people and overweight people tend to struggle with them.

If you are short/overweight you can always get her to be on top...

oh.... you were talking about the TVR....

[Jasandjules]

I like to have AC..... I wish I had it in the Chimaera..... Even with a roof off, you can get stuck in traffic and having AC on the legs is "nice"........

[BJG1]

My Sagaris has A/C. There's no way I'd have bought it if it didn't. It would be mental to make a new car that didn't have it IMO.

Sat Nav isn't really necessary, just a bluetooth stereo so you can stick google maps through the speakers.