Discussion
The Hypno-Toad said:
I'm just amazed that this isn't getting more coverage in the British media. Which, on reflection, is probably quite good news for the UK dealer network.
Hence my question above - the UK seems completely in ignorance of all the goings on, which can only be a good thing for the dealers, or presages a monumental collapse in short order 
KaraK said:
I actually saw an '11 plate 9-5 yesterday and it made me think of this thread. Not looking good is it?
They've been on sale now for at least a year now, and I've still only seen THREE on the road in that time.GM really left them a dead duck with that car, when sadly it needed to be a big sales success to stand a chance of the company remaining a going concern.
Haven't seen many 9-5's but the ones I have seen I have really liked. It seems to be one of those cars which is far more impressive in the metal than photos.
It is also suprising how many 2-5 year old Saabs are on UK roads if you look. Before the troubles they were still shifting a decent number of cars here so there is a customer base (in the UK anyway) if they sort themselves out.
From what I can gather they are somewhat the reverse financial mess than MG Rover - MG Rover had cash but spent it all supporting cashflow so there was nothing on development. Saab have no moneny for cash flow but the terms of the original loans means they have money for development.
Either way it can't go on much longer - either they will fold or some deal will be done to keep them afloat for a while longer in the next few weeks.
It is also suprising how many 2-5 year old Saabs are on UK roads if you look. Before the troubles they were still shifting a decent number of cars here so there is a customer base (in the UK anyway) if they sort themselves out.
From what I can gather they are somewhat the reverse financial mess than MG Rover - MG Rover had cash but spent it all supporting cashflow so there was nothing on development. Saab have no moneny for cash flow but the terms of the original loans means they have money for development.
Either way it can't go on much longer - either they will fold or some deal will be done to keep them afloat for a while longer in the next few weeks.
aeropilot said:
KaraK said:
I actually saw an '11 plate 9-5 yesterday and it made me think of this thread. Not looking good is it?
They've been on sale now for at least a year now, and I've still only seen THREE on the road in that time.GM really left them a dead duck with that car, when sadly it needed to be a big sales success to stand a chance of the company remaining a going concern.
KaraK said:
I've always quite liked Saab's quirky looks but if I'm honest the new 9-5 looked unfinsished like some had the idea to do a retro look modern Saab and had dashed out a couple of skteches but hadn't really had time to polish the idea and get it quite right.
From the side and back at least I think it looks like a Holden. I don't think it's ugly though. More...
Antonov has now been approved to become a shareholder of Saab. How much money he is putting in has yet to be determined. However, Saab have now "re-entered" discussions with the EIB, three days after saying they didn't need them anymore.
I would agree with the comments about the new 9-5. I've seen two; one white, one black. What I have seen is page after page of pre-reg 9-3s on Saab Citys website.
And still it rolls on. Who needs soap operas?
Antonov has now been approved to become a shareholder of Saab. How much money he is putting in has yet to be determined. However, Saab have now "re-entered" discussions with the EIB, three days after saying they didn't need them anymore.
I would agree with the comments about the new 9-5. I've seen two; one white, one black. What I have seen is page after page of pre-reg 9-3s on Saab Citys website.
And still it rolls on. Who needs soap operas?
Finally some facts,.... well at least one or two.
Saab-Spykers accounts have been posted, last year they made a loss of 76.3 million euros, which is $112.9 million dollars. Which is probably the amount that Audi spend on catering, so in the grand scheme of things is not actualy that bad. And if you were looking at it from a political point of view is also chicken feed compared to the amount of money certain governments have been illegaly contracted into paying for two aircraft carriers.
They are now admitting that the production line has now been shut with no cars been produced since the 4th April, which is about a week after the first rumours came out.
Mueller has flown to China. Keeps him out of harms way or any probing questions from the press. Hopefully he flew economy.
Antonov has pumped in $60million while 'Plan B' is sorted out. What this money is going to be used for is unclear but it wouldn't appear to be enough to re-start the production as that hasn't happened at time of writing. Interestingly it would appear to be twice the amount paid byWonga.com the Swedish government as a loan on the 15th. Has this loan been guaranteed by the deeds to properties and the parts department? No one would appear to know.
The latest spin:
"We're keeping the production line closed to introduce another facelift to the 9-3 based on styling cues from the new 9-5. We were going to do this later but we've take this break to rush forward changes to the range."
"Mueller is talking to at least three Chinese manufacturers about investment & so is Antonov with his rich Russian buddies. This will help launch Saab into the Russian & Asian markets where they have no sales representation at the moment."
Toad thoughts (pure guesswork by the way and I was wrong about that meeting!)
Antonovs investment so far would appear to be to payback the Swedish Government and have enough money to pick up payroll at the end of May. He is now running round his buddies trying to drum up some funds on the promise of possibly transfering some production to Russia. Which is interesting, as I would imagine that Muelller is telling the Chinese exactly the same thing. But if I were the Chinese I would be thinking, why invest now when I can pick all the tooling and IP when it all goes belly up in a few months anyway if the Russians don't invest? And if I was the Russians I would be thinking exactly the same thing.
Both Mueller & Antonov will have done their homework (probably on the pack of a fag packet in an airport Starbucks.) and will know that they now need one of either the Russians or the Chinese plus additional funding from the EIB to make the whole thing viable. If the Russians or the Chinese don't come in, it will be back to the EIB one last time for the whole amount. However if Antonov has secured that loan against the property and parts departments that really will be one sweet deal for him.
Been wrong before but if 'Plan B' doesn't work, they will not get any additional funding from the EIB and it will be so long Trollhatten at the end of May.
Do you know what the biggest joke about all this is? That 9-4X is a very good looking car. If it was diesel & Qashqai money & not built in Mexico & not based on a Chevy... oh... forget it.
But I have been wrong before. Like about that horse becoming Pope, for one.
Saab-Spykers accounts have been posted, last year they made a loss of 76.3 million euros, which is $112.9 million dollars. Which is probably the amount that Audi spend on catering, so in the grand scheme of things is not actualy that bad. And if you were looking at it from a political point of view is also chicken feed compared to the amount of money certain governments have been illegaly contracted into paying for two aircraft carriers.
They are now admitting that the production line has now been shut with no cars been produced since the 4th April, which is about a week after the first rumours came out.
Mueller has flown to China. Keeps him out of harms way or any probing questions from the press. Hopefully he flew economy.
Antonov has pumped in $60million while 'Plan B' is sorted out. What this money is going to be used for is unclear but it wouldn't appear to be enough to re-start the production as that hasn't happened at time of writing. Interestingly it would appear to be twice the amount paid by
The latest spin:
"We're keeping the production line closed to introduce another facelift to the 9-3 based on styling cues from the new 9-5. We were going to do this later but we've take this break to rush forward changes to the range."
"Mueller is talking to at least three Chinese manufacturers about investment & so is Antonov with his rich Russian buddies. This will help launch Saab into the Russian & Asian markets where they have no sales representation at the moment."
Toad thoughts (pure guesswork by the way and I was wrong about that meeting!)
Antonovs investment so far would appear to be to payback the Swedish Government and have enough money to pick up payroll at the end of May. He is now running round his buddies trying to drum up some funds on the promise of possibly transfering some production to Russia. Which is interesting, as I would imagine that Muelller is telling the Chinese exactly the same thing. But if I were the Chinese I would be thinking, why invest now when I can pick all the tooling and IP when it all goes belly up in a few months anyway if the Russians don't invest? And if I was the Russians I would be thinking exactly the same thing.
Both Mueller & Antonov will have done their homework (probably on the pack of a fag packet in an airport Starbucks.) and will know that they now need one of either the Russians or the Chinese plus additional funding from the EIB to make the whole thing viable. If the Russians or the Chinese don't come in, it will be back to the EIB one last time for the whole amount. However if Antonov has secured that loan against the property and parts departments that really will be one sweet deal for him.
Been wrong before but if 'Plan B' doesn't work, they will not get any additional funding from the EIB and it will be so long Trollhatten at the end of May.
Do you know what the biggest joke about all this is? That 9-4X is a very good looking car. If it was diesel & Qashqai money & not built in Mexico & not based on a Chevy... oh... forget it.
But I have been wrong before. Like about that horse becoming Pope, for one.
Edited by The Hypno-Toad on Friday 29th April 11:09
I spotted an 11 plate 9-5 over the weekend so although the production line has been stopped for a month I guess there's still stock to shift. The local Saab dealer is on the radio too pushing the 9-5 to business dealers for £299 / month which is the same price as a 9-3 Aero. The sales pitch must be working as I've seen a few 9-5's in and around Aberdeen.
Autocar are being very friendly about the 9-4X...
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Sa...
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Sa...
Is there something more afoot than the round of internet rumors? I'm just curious that as mentioned above, the press in general don't seem to have commented much if at all about Saab, and apart from an oblique reference in the Autocar first drive of the 9-4X, neither they nor the Daly-Wail-esque Autoexpress have passed comment on the situation at all.....???
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