RE: PDK-only for next Porsche 911 GT3?
Discussion
Gary C said:
Why?
The thing that gives the GT cars their halo is the link with the motorsports division. That they're the same as the cars that race at Le Mans, or the Supercup, but street legal. They're used to homologate bits for competition use. And if the racing RSRs come with PDK, that legitimizes it.Lets not forget where PDK came from...
The problem with this current generation of cars is greater than the gearbox .
They are dead , uncommunicative and idiot proof . Boring to drive and feel free with nothing to experience below 100 mph and yet stunningly fast , in short sports cars for dummies v1.2 .
That's just not doing it for me anymore , the cars all feel and drive almost the same . It's just about a to b pace not a to be fun and interaction .
In short they are crap at what I want from a car . Electric steering and PDk are just the nails in the already dead mans coffin , it isnt one thing that killed these cars its a slow , gradual eroding of the drivers interaction process with the vehicle .
In fact the way the new cars have gone why even bother with a manual , does it matter ? When everything else is done for you they may as well change the gears for you too . I think the PDK gearbox is fitting for 991 GT3 for Dummies , it is just the perfect choice . That after all is obviously what the buyers of this kind of car NOW want .
The thing I have never been able to understand is when Porsche make something like 21 variations of the 911 why can't just one bloody variant be dedicated to the DRIVER ? Just one of them . Charge a fortune for it to cover the extra costs if necessary , Im convinced people would buy it . I would .
Porsche didnt homologate the R and very nearly didnt the 73 rs ( the bean counters said no one would buy them ! ) yet when they did sell the rs they sold 3 times the number they needed . There is a market for the kind of car drivers want and before people bleat on about " macho driving Gods " etc let me say you dont have to be a God to enjoy the act of driving not being driven .
Don't even get me started on the cybernetic organisms that Ferrari now put out , a shadow of their former glory . Again very little to do with the gearbox alone .
The silver lining to this cloud is that we dont have to look forward to what cars we would like to own . They are all already out there and we know them so very very well , we just need to find well maintained examples in the PH classifieds . Hooray !
They are dead , uncommunicative and idiot proof . Boring to drive and feel free with nothing to experience below 100 mph and yet stunningly fast , in short sports cars for dummies v1.2 .
That's just not doing it for me anymore , the cars all feel and drive almost the same . It's just about a to b pace not a to be fun and interaction .
In short they are crap at what I want from a car . Electric steering and PDk are just the nails in the already dead mans coffin , it isnt one thing that killed these cars its a slow , gradual eroding of the drivers interaction process with the vehicle .
In fact the way the new cars have gone why even bother with a manual , does it matter ? When everything else is done for you they may as well change the gears for you too . I think the PDK gearbox is fitting for 991 GT3 for Dummies , it is just the perfect choice . That after all is obviously what the buyers of this kind of car NOW want .
The thing I have never been able to understand is when Porsche make something like 21 variations of the 911 why can't just one bloody variant be dedicated to the DRIVER ? Just one of them . Charge a fortune for it to cover the extra costs if necessary , Im convinced people would buy it . I would .
Porsche didnt homologate the R and very nearly didnt the 73 rs ( the bean counters said no one would buy them ! ) yet when they did sell the rs they sold 3 times the number they needed . There is a market for the kind of car drivers want and before people bleat on about " macho driving Gods " etc let me say you dont have to be a God to enjoy the act of driving not being driven .
Don't even get me started on the cybernetic organisms that Ferrari now put out , a shadow of their former glory . Again very little to do with the gearbox alone .
The silver lining to this cloud is that we dont have to look forward to what cars we would like to own . They are all already out there and we know them so very very well , we just need to find well maintained examples in the PH classifieds . Hooray !
veryslowone said:
stuff
Frankly, unless you've got an Atom V8, driving cars everyday just isn't that much fun. On a bike when there's traffic you filter, but cars get stuck. The only opportunity to have any fun in a car is to leave some space in front and accelerate and when doing so its much more fun to shift gears using a clutch than thwapping a paddle. And yes if they got rid of synchromeshes such that you had to double declutch I wouldn't mind that either. Even down a B-road most of the time there are at least a few cars so you can't really drive at 10/10, so anything to add involvement imho is better, and manuals make it more fun. And if you dont' understand why moving your left leg back and forth and rowing your hand around isn't fun perhaps you shouldn't be on this site? Not to say that one has to own or even want to own a manual trans car to be a petrolhead but to not understand its pleasures is a bit blind imo. Perhaps you don't like manuals because you never got the hang of rowing your own stick around?
Adom said:
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!
Unbelievable. Anyone who thinks this is a step in the right direction needs a battering.
I give up.
Agree it's the last Porsche I buy, but what makes me smile is that they have just increased the used value of my GT3RS gen 2 , because they will become more sought after, because they like the air cooled cars is the last of an era! Unbelievable. Anyone who thinks this is a step in the right direction needs a battering.
I give up.
Dr JonboyG said:
Gary C said:
Why?
The thing that gives the GT cars their halo is the link with the motorsports division. That they're the same as the cars that race at Le Mans, or the Supercup, but street legal. They're used to homologate bits for competition use. And if the racing RSRs come with PDK, that legitimizes it.Lets not forget where PDK came from...
George H said:
Except that from any facts and figures point of view it's a way backwards?
When you decided to marry your wife did you like Charles Darwin make a list of all the positives and negatives and then come up with a formula to see if she made you happy? Or did you just go with your gut? (I'm presuming your married here, but even if you're not u get my point). Life is about more than facts and figures my friend
BlackPrince said:
When you decided to marry your wife did you like Charles Darwin make a list of all the positives and negatives and then come up with a formula to see if she made you happy? Or did you just go with your gut? (I'm presuming your married here, but even if you're not u get my point).
Life is about more than facts and figures my friend
Ever consider the high rates of divorce might be because most people just go with their gut instead of considering whether differences in character and other negatives be they physical or personality based will be likely to erode your feelings towards your wife over the course of a marriage? I actually had a checklist before marriage as I had and have seldom seen happily married couples, and I mean really happy and in love after20 years.Life is about more than facts and figures my friend
Anyway , manual gearchanging for me if I were able to afford this car. The new r8 looks to be ditching the manual option if the rumour mill is to be believed, it's a sad thing. Perhaps when cars are too fast to differentiate between manufacturers based on performance then the x factor will become driver involvement and they will re introduce the manual clutch
veryslowone said:
I'm not condoning progress I am just saying what is and you have to live with it.
Look at the worlds best ever German car, it has headlights that follow the road, it tells you if you are driving off lane, it judges your distance to a car in front and then shines a light at the front door so you can get home safely. A mechanical arm even pops out to wipe up the semen splashes when you have sex with your mistress in the back.
Considering this it's a slow march to electronic nannying death and the manual gearbox is actually lagging behind, like a dodo that has not been discovered yet. But do not pine over certainty, you will not get any benefit in that.
Here ends the lesson
Amen
Sex? Sex is so last century. To further the march of progress, you should conceive in a lab where it's safer and results are more assured.Look at the worlds best ever German car, it has headlights that follow the road, it tells you if you are driving off lane, it judges your distance to a car in front and then shines a light at the front door so you can get home safely. A mechanical arm even pops out to wipe up the semen splashes when you have sex with your mistress in the back.
Considering this it's a slow march to electronic nannying death and the manual gearbox is actually lagging behind, like a dodo that has not been discovered yet. But do not pine over certainty, you will not get any benefit in that.
Here ends the lesson
Amen
The rest of us who rant about the fact that the process and the involvement are better than the speed and the fact that you can finish quickly, will continue in our stubborn ways...
...and enjoy every second of it.
Well so far quite a few 997 GT3 owners have piped up and said they definitely wont buy a PDK version and I don't think any have said that they will; so if Porsche really do go single-'box, it seems that the question is whether they want to keep their existing customers or go after an entirely new set.
mrdemon said:
I doubt it dealers don't want manual cars, and the F430 F1 box is about as good as it gets for a single unit.
Rubbish, every year my Dad takes his manual F430 back to be serviced, the dealers try to talk him into selling it. Not to mension the 2 or 3 phone calls a year asking if hes thinking of changing anytime soon.LY99 said:
mrdemon said:
I doubt it dealers don't want manual cars, and the F430 F1 box is about as good as it gets for a single unit.
Rubbish, every year my Dad takes his manual F430 back to be serviced, the dealers try to talk him into selling it. Not to mension the 2 or 3 phone calls a year asking if hes thinking of changing anytime soon.997 Cup cars use a sequential gearbox and are far away from the stock manual in my 7.2 GT3. A PDK box in a would not really be further away from the race car than the manual. Cup cars also run without ABS and PASM so all GT models are for footballers only anway, right?
I'm not hung up about PDK or not. The fundamentalist comments on here really puzzle me. If you lived up to your claims, you'd get rid of ABS, PSM and PASM the moment you get your GT3 delivered.
For me, a GT3 should feel raw and provide me with a race car feeling whenever I drive it. Whether that is achieved via a manual or a well sorted race-capable PDK box, I could not care less.
People who don't care about outright performance would also not be happy in case a new GT3 were not able keep lesser metal at a reasonable distance around the Ring or any other track of your liking.
To me, it's the result that counts and I am curious to see what Porsche will pull off
I'm not hung up about PDK or not. The fundamentalist comments on here really puzzle me. If you lived up to your claims, you'd get rid of ABS, PSM and PASM the moment you get your GT3 delivered.
For me, a GT3 should feel raw and provide me with a race car feeling whenever I drive it. Whether that is achieved via a manual or a well sorted race-capable PDK box, I could not care less.
People who don't care about outright performance would also not be happy in case a new GT3 were not able keep lesser metal at a reasonable distance around the Ring or any other track of your liking.
To me, it's the result that counts and I am curious to see what Porsche will pull off
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