RE: Spotted: BMW M3 CS
Discussion
kambites said:
I'd take a CS over a CSL even if they were the same price. The idea of an automatic M3 just seems wrong to me and it's not even a particularly good automatic if it's the same as the DSG they put in the other M3s of that era.
If only you knew what the 'M' in SMG stood for 
MattCSLnut said:
kambites said:
I'd take a CS over a CSL even if they were the same price. The idea of an automatic M3 just seems wrong to me and it's not even a particularly good automatic if it's the same as the DSG they put in the other M3s of that era.
If only you knew what the 'M' in SMG stood for 
kazino said:
Been looking at these rare beasts, thank heavens they put the manual in, was passenger in a CSL and that SMG gearbox really ruins what was an amazing car
What did you think the main issue with it was as I am constantly here things like "I'd have a CSL\M5\M6 tomorrow if it wasn't for that SMG" but I am always confused by these comments as it really isn't that bad? Yes in auto mode it's quite jerky but I found the best way to use it was to totally ignore the auto mode and use it as a manual. I agree it does take a bit of time to learn it so that you can get it to be smooth and get the best out of it, much like a normal manual perhaps 
Just don't get the hate for that box, I think it's pretty decent, has a very positive action. Blipping down going into a corner or WOT upshifts are just superb and in a drivers car, much better than a lot of auto's for it's interaction with the driver. I'd go far as to say I'd prefer the SMG to the flappy paddle full auto in mine.
Me thinks this is another one we can blame that cretin Clarkson for, that bloke really shouldn't be allowed to influence so many motorists with his stupid opinions IMO.
kambites said:
It's just a question of personal preference. I have nothing in particular against this specific box, I just don't like automated gearboxes in general.
Hmm what exactly is it that you don't like though? Yes having control of the clutch is nice in a full manual but I can't really think of anything else.This IS a manual gearbox after all, it has a clutch and everything and feels like a manual in operation so it's quite a bit different from all the usual auto and DCT boxes we seem to be getting these days which I admit are pretty rubbish in terms of driver involvement.
Flappy paddles also allow you to keep your hands on the wheel where they belong. I admit the visceral feel of stirring a nice manual box is great fun but flipping up and down the gears in this box is as much fun but in a different way IMO.
kambites said:
It's just a question of personal preference. I have nothing in particular against this specific box, I just don't like automated gearboxes in general.
Do you actually like ANYTHING? You're very opinionated!On the CS: I haven't driven one but I've heard nothing but good things. I might do a little work to my Z4M to make it handle similarly.
Guvernator said:
..Flappy paddles also allow you to keep your hands on the wheel where they belong. I admit the visceral feel of stirring a nice manual box is great fun but flipping up and down the gears in this box is as much fun but in a different way IMO.
Agreed, and if a manual box is so awesome, has anyone fitted one to their CSL?Manual is so yesterday for powerful cars -generally of course.
I think like the GT3 had the M3 CSL had a BMW Manual Gearbox when new would have sold just as well and bee. Held in just as high esteem. Though BMW did struggle to sell M3 CSLs when new. I like both gearboxes and both are fun. Personally the fact CSLs only come with SMGII saves me the choice of deciding which one I prefer. Manuals are getting rarer these days in high performance cars.
Like I said I think Manual is fun more of the time going fast and slow and is involving and in this country we cannot go fast all the time. The SMGII is very fun when going fast however when being slowed down by other cars I just prefer a Manual for the involvement and improving my gear changes. Lets face it BMW don't sell many Manuals when the choice is offered ....
M3 CS Coupe
101 Manuals
130 SMGII
E92 M3 Competition Package
Ignoring the early E92 M3s in 2007 how rare is it in general to find a Manual E92 M3 at a BMW Dealer ?
Manual and SMGII give the car both different characters the SMGII in S5 or S6 whether CSL, CS, M3 makes the car seem aggressive. Auto isn't very good I never bothered using it and used Manual mode all the time.
Like I said I think Manual is fun more of the time going fast and slow and is involving and in this country we cannot go fast all the time. The SMGII is very fun when going fast however when being slowed down by other cars I just prefer a Manual for the involvement and improving my gear changes. Lets face it BMW don't sell many Manuals when the choice is offered ....
M3 CS Coupe
101 Manuals
130 SMGII
E92 M3 Competition Package
Ignoring the early E92 M3s in 2007 how rare is it in general to find a Manual E92 M3 at a BMW Dealer ?
Manual and SMGII give the car both different characters the SMGII in S5 or S6 whether CSL, CS, M3 makes the car seem aggressive. Auto isn't very good I never bothered using it and used Manual mode all the time.
Edited by thepony on Thursday 6th December 12:51
Edited by thepony on Thursday 6th December 12:53
Guvernator said:
What did you think the main issue with it was as I am constantly here things like "I'd have a CSL\M5\M6 tomorrow if it wasn't for that SMG" but I am always confused by these comments as it really isn't that bad? Yes in auto mode it's quite jerky but I found the best way to use it was to totally ignore the auto mode and use it as a manual. I agree it does take a bit of time to learn it so that you can get it to be smooth and get the best out of it, much like a normal manual perhaps
Just don't get the hate for that box, I think it's pretty decent, has a very positive action. Blipping down going into a corner or WOT upshifts are just superb and in a drivers car, much better than a lot of auto's for it's interaction with the driver. I'd go far as to say I'd prefer the SMG to the flappy paddle full auto in mine.
Me thinks this is another one we can blame that cretin Clarkson for, that bloke really shouldn't be allowed to influence so many motorists with his stupid opinions IMO.
It's the usual PH way mate. Regurgitate a general opinion held by some people who have never actually tried the SMG or tried it for long enough to know what a great addition to an M3 it is.Just don't get the hate for that box, I think it's pretty decent, has a very positive action. Blipping down going into a corner or WOT upshifts are just superb and in a drivers car, much better than a lot of auto's for it's interaction with the driver. I'd go far as to say I'd prefer the SMG to the flappy paddle full auto in mine.
Me thinks this is another one we can blame that cretin Clarkson for, that bloke really shouldn't be allowed to influence so many motorists with his stupid opinions IMO.
Those that have had an SMG car will 95% sing it's praises, those that have had a manual will 95% slate the SMG cars (without ever trying it) and those who have never owned an M3 will side with the general concensus of "manual is better because I'm a driving God".
If the SMG is so bad...Why did BMW ///M division, makers of some of the best cars ever, decide that SMG was better for the CSL, one of the greatest cars ever?
I for one own an SMG car and love it, I wouldn't have a M3 in manual. I have also just bought a Ferrari F430... in manual, I wouldnt have the F1 box in a Ferrari.
SidewaysSi said:
I maybe mistaken but I don't think he said it was the best car ever, more the best all rounder of the past 10 years which is very different.
Yeah I think he said he was considering putting together an argument for the M3 CS as the best all round car BMW have done for the past 50 years?Guvernator said:
kambites said:
It's just a question of personal preference. I have nothing in particular against this specific box, I just don't like automated gearboxes in general.
Hmm what exactly is it that you don't like though? I don't think these boxes are bad, in every measurable way they're great, I just don't like them.
One day the driver will just have go, stop, left and right buttons and in every measurable way it'll be better than anything we have now - that doesn't mean I want a car like that. DBW steering is the next step.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 6th December 14:27
GroundEffect said:
kambites said:
It's just a question of personal preference. I have nothing in particular against this specific box, I just don't like automated gearboxes in general.
Do you actually like ANYTHING? You're very opinionated!
s m said:
Are the rears bespoke only to the CSL? Or used on the CS as well? Were there special lightweight versions originally for the CSL that have been superceded now and the same rears are specced for CS/CSL on replacement? Are the CS wheels that look the same actually lighter overall than the CSL as they only run an 8x19" version at the front?
Were the CSL Cup tyres significantly lighter than the Pilot Sports?
Genuine CSL wheels are lighter than the reps on a CS. The wheels are the CS are believed to be lighter than the standard M3 19s I think.Were the CSL Cup tyres significantly lighter than the Pilot Sports?
Also, a quick note on the featured car. We had this beautiful CS lined up:
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
... but it sold on the morning we were going to run the story! The grey car wasn't our first choice but was the only other manual in the classifieds. The idea of this Spotted was to indicate where E46 values were currently and, whilst the grey car isn't ideal, it does serve that purpose. Most of the junk on it looks reversible also?
Craigwww said:
Guvernator said:
What did you think the main issue with it was as I am constantly here things like "I'd have a CSL\M5\M6 tomorrow if it wasn't for that SMG" but I am always confused by these comments as it really isn't that bad? Yes in auto mode it's quite jerky but I found the best way to use it was to totally ignore the auto mode and use it as a manual. I agree it does take a bit of time to learn it so that you can get it to be smooth and get the best out of it, much like a normal manual perhaps
Just don't get the hate for that box, I think it's pretty decent, has a very positive action. Blipping down going into a corner or WOT upshifts are just superb and in a drivers car, much better than a lot of auto's for it's interaction with the driver. I'd go far as to say I'd prefer the SMG to the flappy paddle full auto in mine.
Me thinks this is another one we can blame that cretin Clarkson for, that bloke really shouldn't be allowed to influence so many motorists with his stupid opinions IMO.
It's the usual PH way mate. Regurgitate a general opinion held by some people who have never actually tried the SMG or tried it for long enough to know what a great addition to an M3 it is.Just don't get the hate for that box, I think it's pretty decent, has a very positive action. Blipping down going into a corner or WOT upshifts are just superb and in a drivers car, much better than a lot of auto's for it's interaction with the driver. I'd go far as to say I'd prefer the SMG to the flappy paddle full auto in mine.
Me thinks this is another one we can blame that cretin Clarkson for, that bloke really shouldn't be allowed to influence so many motorists with his stupid opinions IMO.
Those that have had an SMG car will 95% sing it's praises, those that have had a manual will 95% slate the SMG cars (without ever trying it) and those who have never owned an M3 will side with the general concensus of "manual is better because I'm a driving God".
If the SMG is so bad...Why did BMW ///M division, makers of some of the best cars ever, decide that SMG was better for the CSL, one of the greatest cars ever?
I for one own an SMG car and love it, I wouldn't have a M3 in manual. I have also just bought a Ferrari F430... in manual, I wouldnt have the F1 box in a Ferrari.
Don't remember reading one comment of an owner claiming the SMG box was a barrier. The most common criticism was that the ride may be too firm for some to take daily. [Not an owner, but would love to be!]
JohnGoodridge said:
PH BMW forum has been discussing merits of CSL as a daily here http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Don't remember reading one comment of an owner claiming the SMG box was a barrier. The most common criticism was that the ride may be too firm for some to take daily. [Not an owner, but would love to be!]
No, but I've said it before that SMG is not ideal for driving in traffic, speed ramps, auto-mode, etc.Don't remember reading one comment of an owner claiming the SMG box was a barrier. The most common criticism was that the ride may be too firm for some to take daily. [Not an owner, but would love to be!]
kazino said:
Been looking at these rare beasts, thank heavens they put the manual in, was passenger in a CSL and that SMG gearbox really ruins what was an amazing car
Not sure how you could tell the merits or otherwise of SMG from the passenger seatThese things need to be driven hard to really make sense, and as such the gearbox also makes sense. I defy anyone to take one for a proper blast over their favourite road, windows down, or on track, "Sport" on, in S5 or S6 on the SMG, and then come back and say "Yeah, I'm not too fussed on the flappy paddles". It will either be that the car isn't for you because it's a bit too hardcore, or you'll be selling your granny to raise the funds for one. I don't believe there's a middle ground, and for someone to official dismiss the car, in the context of what it was built for, on the basis of SMG doesn't really ring true for me
As previously mentioned, the shadow of Clarkson seems to be looming large over this particular subject
Edited by Leins on Thursday 6th December 15:25
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