RE: PH Blog: the best M3? It's the 1 M!

[Big E 118]

hmanuk said:

Big E 118 said:

Is there anyone on here (or Chris Harris if you're reading) that can give an objective summary explaining the differences in feel between an E46 M3/1M/E92 M3 from experience, I'd be interested to hear.

Having owned an E46 M3 CS and a couple of E92 M3's (driven a few CSL's as well) I'd like to hear how the 1M compares.

Perhaps Drive TV would like to entertain the idea of filming a comparison test and bring all these cars together. The idea would not be to say which car is the best but to summarise why each of these cars deserves the M badge!

What do you say CH?

Good thinking, or what about PH? I'm sure between us we could round up one of each (I'd volunteer my DCT E92 M3 - keeping a close eye on the "you bend it you mend it" thread!) for CH to have a blat around in and produce us an article.

Would be good to see a 1M, E46 CS, E46 CSL and E92 M3 comparison, as you say not to say which is best but just as an evolution of (latter) M cars.

[CSLmarson]

Big E 118 said:

hmanuk said:

Big E 118 said:

Is there anyone on here (or Chris Harris if you're reading) that can give an objective summary explaining the differences in feel between an E46 M3/1M/E92 M3 from experience, I'd be interested to hear.

Having owned an E46 M3 CS and a couple of E92 M3's (driven a few CSL's as well) I'd like to hear how the 1M compares.

Perhaps Drive TV would like to entertain the idea of filming a comparison test and bring all these cars together. The idea would not be to say which car is the best but to summarise why each of these cars deserves the M badge!

What do you say CH?

Good thinking, or what about PH? I'm sure between us we could round up one of each (I'd volunteer my DCT E92 M3 - keeping a close eye on the "you bend it you mend it" thread!) for CH to have a blat around in and produce us an article.

Would be good to see a 1M, E46 CS, E46 CSL and E92 M3 comparison, as you say not to say which is best but just as an evolution of (latter) M cars.

Sounds good ill bring my CSL down

[ChrisBuer]

I'd happily lend my 1M but it's mapped, so it's hardly fair....

[German]

Leins said:

Could someone tell me if this is a "tongue-in-cheek" comment? When someone supposedly from BMW comes on and implies that CSL-owners aren't proper performance car enthusiasts then I think it's time for me to bow out of this conversation anyway

That isn't what I said, you'll also note I said I like the CSL. A lot. I would suspect just about all CSL owners can drive and enjoy driving manual, it isn't the sort of car your general numpty with a checkbook buys, they all ended up with M3 SMG cabrios. Just about all are enthusiast owned. Someone posted a ways back about never going back from DSG, and hating manual, which to me implies someone with a lack of interest in cars/driving as a whole. Please re-read both comments, really wasn't what i was saying.

[rossi1]

A non M owner indeed but I have driven M3`3 from the E36 to the E92 M3. My most enjoyable drive was of an E46 M3 smg.
I have a massive love for the German Marque but as I say the 1M is just not an M3 and cannot be compared to one.


Im pretty sure "Everyone" has there own opinion

Im not knocking the 1M at all, a powerful lump and great handling make this car what it is(Not so keen on the 1 series shape though)

I find it funny how so many people have taken it so personal in this thread,its pretty funny.

I have grown up surrounded but the NA M power engines,the 1M just doesn't have the same story,history or character behind it as the M3 does.

As I have already said IMO the 1M will always just be the one trying to hard,wanting to muscle in on its bigger more sought after brother.

[German]

alexk said:

German said:

I work for BMW

Who is your manager ?
You can pm me

Any particular reason? Or did you also fail to read all of my post and the post it was replying to and assume I was bashing the CSL, when in fact I was grumpy at someone implying a manual transmission is pointless?

Touchy lot you CSL boys arent you. BURN THE MANUAL LOVER!!

[garypotter]

Manual or Auto?

I enjoy a manual box and an auto/smg box but due to regulations, emissions eu nanny state laws etc manufacturers are forced into the auto route

IMHO

I enjoy the 5 speedy box in the millenium falcon but it is 18yrs old!! so suits the car of that age maybe in 20 years time we will be all driving electric scooters and wishing we had anything with a petrol/ diesel engine.

[ChrisBuer]

rossi1 said:

A non M owner indeed but I have driven M3`3 from the E36 to the E92 M3. My most enjoyable drive was of an E46 M3 smg.
I have a massive love for the German Marque but as I say the 1M is just not an M3 and cannot be compared to one.
.

OK but have you actually driven a 1M?

rossi1 said:

Im pretty sure "Everyone" has there own opinion

Im not knocking the 1M at all, a powerful lump and great handling make this car what it is(Not so keen on the 1 series shape though)

Have you actually seen one in the metal? Looks are completely personal, but in the metal they do have real road presence (IMO to be fair!).

rossi1 said:

I find it funny how so many people have taken it so personal in this thread,its pretty funny.

I think people defending the 1M are doing so because there are so many people on PH who apparently “speak from authority” about what the car is, without ever haven driven it. Therefore we feel the need to defend it as, being owners, we know just how good it is. Most 1M owners have also driven an M3, so are well placed to comment. Mathematically, less M3 owners will have driven a 1M due to its low numbers. I’ve never driven a CSL (but would love too) so will not comment on what one is like. I won’t state that the gearbox is rubbish, because guess what, I’ve no idea, I’ve never driven it…

rossi1 said:

I have grown up surrounded but the NA M power engines,the 1M just doesn't have the same story,history or character behind it as the M3 does.

As I have already said IMO the 1M will always just be the one trying to hard,wanting to muscle in on its bigger more sought after brother.

I’ve grown up with NA M powered engines and the lack of history doesn’t bother me. When I drive my 1M, I don’t sit there thinking “oh such a shame it doesn’t have the history”. The thought never enters my mind because I’m having too much fun in it

It’s funny as it reminds me a bit like one of my work colleagues who is a Liverpool FC supporter. He’s always going on about their history of the club and how many trophies they’ve won, but when I asked him “what would you rather, the history or the success now?”. He admitted that although he’d not like to lose the history, he’d love to see his team winning the league again.

Final comment, I don’t see the 1M trying “hard wanting to muscle in on it’s bigger more sought after brother”. For one my 1M is quicker, rarer and I think (and this is again my personal opinion) more sought after because there is so damn few of them. Honestly, you could offer me £10k and an M3 for my 1M and I wouldn’t swap (well I would, but I’d sell the M3 and buy another 1M, pocketing the profit, but you get my point)

[krallicious]

Having lived with a manual E92 for 3.5 years, my local dealer told me to try the DCT saying it was a lot better. He was correct if you live in start stop traffic or always drive on a race track. I thought it made the car very boring to drive fast and will be sticking to a manual. The same is true, for me, of PDK and DSG. I am still looking for my next car and of the 4 on my list two are BMWs, a 1M or another M3.

[rossi1]

ChrisBuer said:

rossi1 said:

A non M owner indeed but I have driven M3`3 from the E36 to the E92 M3. My most enjoyable drive was of an E46 M3 smg.
I have a massive love for the German Marque but as I say the 1M is just not an M3 and cannot be compared to one.
.

OK but have you actually driven a 1M?

rossi1 said:

Im pretty sure "Everyone" has there own opinion

Im not knocking the 1M at all, a powerful lump and great handling make this car what it is(Not so keen on the 1 series shape though)

Have you actually seen one in the metal? Looks are completely personal, but in the metal they do have real road presence (IMO to be fair!).

rossi1 said:

I find it funny how so many people have taken it so personal in this thread,its pretty funny.

I think people defending the 1M are doing so because there are so many people on PH who apparently “speak from authority” about what the car is, without ever haven driven it. Therefore we feel the need to defend it as, being owners, we know just how good it is. Most 1M owners have also driven an M3, so are well placed to comment. Mathematically, less M3 owners will have driven a 1M due to its low numbers. I’ve never driven a CSL (but would love too) so will not comment on what one is like. I won’t state that the gearbox is rubbish, because guess what, I’ve no idea, I’ve never driven it…

rossi1 said:

I have grown up surrounded but the NA M power engines,the 1M just doesn't have the same story,history or character behind it as the M3 does.

As I have already said IMO the 1M will always just be the one trying to hard,wanting to muscle in on its bigger more sought after brother.

I’ve grown up with NA M powered engines and the lack of history doesn’t bother me. When I drive my 1M, I don’t sit there thinking “oh such a shame it doesn’t have the history”. The thought never enters my mind because I’m having too much fun in it

It’s funny as it reminds me a bit like one of my work colleagues who is a Liverpool FC supporter. He’s always going on about their history of the club and how many trophies they’ve won, but when I asked him “what would you rather, the history or the success now?”. He admitted that although he’d not like to lose the history, he’d love to see his team winning the league again.

Final comment, I don’t see the 1M trying “hard wanting to muscle in on it’s bigger more sought after brother”. For one my 1M is quicker, rarer and I think (and this is again my personal opinion) more sought after because there is so damn few of them. Honestly, you could offer me £10k and an M3 for my 1M and I wouldn’t swap (well I would, but I’d sell the M3 and buy another 1M, pocketing the profit, but you get my point)

As i said im not here knocking the 1M at all, im not bhing about gearboxes either as I personally loved using the SMG Box in the E46 but I also enjoy a good old fashioned manual just as much and no i havent driven a 1M.

I have seen many. Im heavily into the BMW Scene and manage to get around to a lot of the shows throughout the summer,being in London I see a lot in town too and looks wise they just don`t do anything for me if you want my honest opinion. again,Personal opinion.


Im not asking you to be bothered about the history behind M power cars that`s just how I feel.

As i have said im not for one second knocking the 1M , I would just choose an "M3" over a 1M any day.

[ChrisBuer]

rossi1 said:

As i said im not here knocking the 1M at all, im not bhing about gearboxes either as I personally loved using the SMG Box in the E46 but I also enjoy a good old fashioned manual just as much and no i havent driven a 1M.

I have seen many. Im heavily into the BMW Scene and manage to get around to a lot of the shows throughout the summer,being in London I see a lot in town too and looks wise they just don`t do anything for me if you want my honest opinion. again,Personal opinion.

Im not asking you to be bothered about the history behind M power cars that`s just how I feel.

As i have said im not for one second knocking the 1M , I would just choose an "M3" over a 1M any day.

I know that you're not knocking the 1M (I wasn't having a pop)

If you've seen one and don't like the look, then that's fine, of course it is. If we all liked the same thing, the world would be a boring place wouldn't it

I know you're not asking me to be bothered about the history. I was just making the point that some people buy cars on what they are, not on history.

If you're big into the BMW scene, then you should try and drive their cars (CSL, 1M, etc) and see what you think. I'm really not trying to convince you to like a 1M as that is ridiculous, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However I do wonder how many people on here, much like the OP, would drive a selection of "M cars" and come to the same conclusion that Dale did. Or at the very least look back at the 1M and think "yeah, don't like the looks, or the fact that it's a turbo and I'd still rather have an M3, but damn that little car is fun".

[hmanuk]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Ok chap, I'm not allowed to disagree.

You might want to ask Rolls Royce about sticking a stick shift in their cars then!

[PascalBuyens]

mrdemon said:

They are so much quicker saving 1/3 of a second every gear change , to keep up it seems you need, dsg, dct, PDK or lose the traffic light gp :-) a decent hand/foot coordination and more horsepower.

Edited by mrdemon on Tuesday 29th January 22:52

Hennessey Venom GT. Manual AND the fastest accelerating car in the world, Guiness doesn't lie

Edited by PascalBuyens on Wednesday 30th January 12:37

[DodoRacing]

Great views and thanks to Dale for triggering it.

I owned both the E46 M3 (SMG II), the E46 CSL and currently the Z4MC (with the CSL airbox of course). I agree with the comments that the SMG suited the character of the CSL at the time. It was programmed more aggressively than the normal M3 and you could feel it. I loved the jerkiness of upshifts in S6 mode for its sheer drama. No need to repeat what the others clearly described about the joy of driving a manual car on the track or the twisties.

Would the CSL be a better car with the manual gearbox? Probably yes as a classic car in the long since every computerized device gets aged pretty quickly but the good mechanical ones don't. The advantage of the CSL is I think hardly anyone (except for Pagani Hueyra) is doing single-clutch sequential manual gearboxes anymore, so it will remain as the last and arguably the best of its kind.

To give BMW credit, you have to see the SMG II in the context of when the CSL was launched. In 2003, the CSL was a technology experiment and SMG II was a big deal then (much faster than the Ferrari equivalent). I have a full BMW brochure just on the SMG which shows the importance they gave to it.

To give an idea about the extent BMW went with new technology, here is a link about the back seat rests: http://www.basf.de/basf2/html/plastics/englisch/pa... You don't normally see back seat rests getting weight saving attention like that. It was packed with innovations like this all over it.

I think BMW is not calling all these new fast M3 derivatives CSL because they know they haven't gone with technological innovation (over the base car) as far as to deserve the special CSL badge.

[161BMW]

Big E 118 said:

hmanuk said:

Big E 118 said:

Is there anyone on here (or Chris Harris if you're reading) that can give an objective summary explaining the differences in feel between an E46 M3/1M/E92 M3 from experience, I'd be interested to hear.

Having owned an E46 M3 CS and a couple of E92 M3's (driven a few CSL's as well) I'd like to hear how the 1M compares.

Perhaps Drive TV would like to entertain the idea of filming a comparison test and bring all these cars together. The idea would not be to say which car is the best but to summarise why each of these cars deserves the M badge!

What do you say CH?

Good thinking, or what about PH? I'm sure between us we could round up one of each (I'd volunteer my DCT E92 M3 - keeping a close eye on the "you bend it you mend it" thread!) for CH to have a blat around in and produce us an article.

Would be good to see a 1M, E46 CS, E46 CSL and E92 M3 comparison, as you say not to say which is best but just as an evolution of (latter) M cars.

I could potentially supply my M3 CS which has a BMW Manual Gearbox and is standard if no one else steps up ....

Though I would want it exactly as I given to him in one piece unharmed :-)

[MonteV]

1M Coupé has the potential for significant performance upgrades with its turbo-engine. Lots of aftermarket stuff. Still find it interesting, though, while it looks smaller, it isn't much lighter than a regular 3-series with the same engine. They should bring out a lightened hardcore version, a CSL1M Coupe.

[Mermaid]

MonteV said:

1M Coupé has the potential for significant performance upgrades with its turbo-engine. Lots of aftermarket stuff. Still find it interesting, though, while it looks smaller, it isn't much lighter than a regular 3-series with the same engine. They should bring out a lightened hardcore version, a CSL1M Coupe.

Sounds good. 1200-1300 kgs.

[smilo996]

M3 yesterdays BMW. Driven by crims & footballers wifes & their children. 1M lovely. Prefer the 600BHP version though. Can you imagine the fun to be had.

[Mr Whippy]

Mermaid said:

cpufreak said:

you've not driven an E92.. hard enough though.

the magic in the engine is from 7500->8400 rpm. It's simply incredible.

Isn't that the issue - the traffic & speed environment is not friendly to these sort of cars, people just want more grunt for daily use. Great for driving on track though.

If you want grunt for daily use buy the diesel one.

This is the issue, people buying unsuitable cars for their needs.

I'll buy an M, I want a sports car, but I don't want to rev it?!

For daily use even the 'revvy' V8 M3 is a power house. You can be ambling along in 5th or 6th at 30mph and be pushing along the general stream of traffic with partial or full throttle.

Even in my low powered Z4 I can be ambling in 5th/6th going for a 40mpg trip computer run and not be holding traffic up, and usually limited by others around me.


Tie in all this grunt too, with DCT gearboxes that can change seamlessly, and you wonder why it's such a task to rev or have to rev to access power for extremely brisk acceleration?



Dave

[rtg0616]

Isn't it incredible that this car with "no history" has got to be one of the most talked about cars on Pistonheads? We must be up to 160 comments by now, which seems odd, seeing as the 1M is not a proper M car nor a threat to the M3/CSL!
We've got people making assumptions based on no experience of driving or having seen one in the flesh. This is based on a blog about the 1M, so why would we give a ste about the CSL or flappy paddle gearboxes? Infact why don't you people harping on about the merits of computer controlled gearboxes, take your flappy paddles and ps off to your own "Lets have an argument about gear boxes" forum.

Why not leave peole who appreciate great cars and have an opinion on the 1M have their say, whether they like it or not, and stop hijacking this thread, with your pathetic nonsense.

I personally couldn't give a crap if the engine was produced by Reliant, whether it's NA or it has 8 turbos, it doesn't matter, it will still keep pace with an M3!!
I think it's great that it's stealing the limelight, clearly this is a car that divides opinion, but let's face it, it will be a car that people will still be talking about in the next 30 years because it's fantastic, whether people consider it an M car or not.