RE: Flaming GT3s - owners bite back
Discussion
crispyshark said:
russy01 said:
I don't see why customers who haven't taken delivery of the car should be compensated.
Maybe they should get a cracking deal (I.e free servicing when the car has been delivered etc) but to receive money each day from Porsche is ridiculous.
You are given a date when your car is to be delivered to you....there is a contract in terms of offer and acceptance, it's not open ended i.e. I pay you this amount, my car is delivered/promised to me on this date. If it is not delivered, for whatever reason, it is the responsibility of the manufacturer to rectify/compensate this. In the same way with construction you tender for a contract and guarantee to deliver the finished product on a certain date, if you don't hit that date you have fine and penalty clauses as the original contract has been breached. Jaguar XJ220 customers learnt the hard way when they did not pin down exact delivery dates at time of deposit etc.Maybe they should get a cracking deal (I.e free servicing when the car has been delivered etc) but to receive money each day from Porsche is ridiculous.
I have not been partied to contracts in buying GT3's and this is effectively a recall after intial delivery date so I'm not sure where the consumer stands. Might need one of the legal guys to comment on this but it is still awful customer service that Porsche aren't offering all paid up consumers another car or equal compensation.
However I think it's daft that people who have not taken delivery are looking to get compensation.
In this positron these customers have suck it up and wait. If Porsche want to give you some form of compensation when it's all sorted then it's a bonus.
As for contracts, I don't know anything about buying a Porsche new or contracts in that case, But I doubt any legal contract is formed until payment is made in full and the product is delivered.
milesr3 said:
Is this recent experience of Lotus? My experience of them has been amongst the best of any manufacturer (including Jaguar Land Rover who I agree are excellent). Maybe it's because I'm lucky enough to be near the factory, but they've sent a warranty approval guy out to meet me personally, test drive my car and approve a replacement gearshift cable in response to a satisfaction survey I returned. And their engine specialist came out when I queried the popping sound that the variable lift inlet valve setup was making.
All work done under warranty and on a car that has been serviced by an Indy and with no great scrutiny of the engine ECU log. Can you imagine Porsche doing this?
I bought another Land Rover because they've always looked after me. I'll buy another Lotus for exactly the same reason.
wow your very lucky, the absolute opposite customer service from JLR on an XK8 and the L322 range rover (both bought new) are the reason I would never recommend or buy another JLR product in my life (thats after having had 4 jaguars and 4 range rovers!)All work done under warranty and on a car that has been serviced by an Indy and with no great scrutiny of the engine ECU log. Can you imagine Porsche doing this?
I bought another Land Rover because they've always looked after me. I'll buy another Lotus for exactly the same reason.
Edited by milesr3 on Friday 25th April 18:21
I guess that just goes to highlight that these manufacturers are inconsistent - the fact the article is trying to highlight.
I'm interested that so many people have actually had contact with the customer service provided by manufacturers themselves. I thought 90% of people who buy new cars only really had contact with the dealer?
Main dealers are just garages who have paid the manufacturer some money to stick their logo above the door. A few manufacturers are quite tough on making sure their dealers provide a good service (most people say Lexus are, for example) but the huge majority don't seem to care as long as they get their franchise cheque.
Main dealers are just garages who have paid the manufacturer some money to stick their logo above the door. A few manufacturers are quite tough on making sure their dealers provide a good service (most people say Lexus are, for example) but the huge majority don't seem to care as long as they get their franchise cheque.
kambites said:
I'm interested that so many people have actually had contact with the customer service provided by manufacturers themselves. I thought 90% of people who buy new cars only really had contact with the dealer?
Main dealers are just garages who have paid the manufacturer some money to stick their logo above the door. A few manufacturers are quite tough on making sure their dealers provide a good service (most people say Lexus are, for example) but the huge majority don't seem to care as long as they get their franchise cheque.
speaking personally when you have the same fault occur 3 times in less than 10k miles - which results in the car losing drive in the outside lane of the motorway with a car full of the family and two different dealers cant fix the problem once and for all or if the roof on your convertible gets stuck half open half closed everytime you try to raise it when the car is parked on a hill then there comes a point when speaking to the manufacturer is the only way one tries to get a solution - and when they effectively refuse to even respond or give you the brush off then you know they dont deserve ones hard earnt.Main dealers are just garages who have paid the manufacturer some money to stick their logo above the door. A few manufacturers are quite tough on making sure their dealers provide a good service (most people say Lexus are, for example) but the huge majority don't seem to care as long as they get their franchise cheque.
On the other hand, my AM dealer is crap since it was bought by a large dealership chain. But when I popped onto the AM stand at a motor show and explained a problem I had a call from their head of technical services the following work day and my car was collected by the same crappy dealer and a modification was made that the factory was just introducing to the production line. In my opinion it doesnt get a lot better than that.
Edited by oilit on Friday 25th April 21:26
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Tomatogti said:
Surely some have threatened Porsche GB with legal action to which there is surely a case as not fit for purpose. Perhaps there have been some hushed up out of court settlements/agreements reached?
The contract of sale is with the supplying dealer not GB. Customers have the option of a full refund - it's the minimum Porsche had to do so there are no grounds to claim unfair treatment. If you want the car you can wait for it, if you don't you can have a refund - either way it's your choice and Porsche unfortunately don't have to offer anything more.
And anyone would be foolish to take on Porsche's lawyers - they have the best legal team in the world bar Apple and Tom Crooze.
As a 911 lover since 1984 - owned many over the years including current 964RS - the last thing I want in a car is the prospect of a big bill for no benefit, so IMS and RMS is boring, bore scoring is worse, and that the comfort of GT3 / Turbo Mezger reliability has also now been sacrificed makes me genuinely sad... I'd now be unlikely to buy another, or advocate it...
suffolk009 said:
These continued engine problems are an absolute disaster for Porsche.
My wife would love a Porsche. I'd like to get her a 964, but can no longer afford one. I can afford a 996 but with the well documented engine problems I will not go near one.
Ditto. I really fancied a 996 or a gen 1 997 but after all that is documented on the mechanical issues I wouldn't touch any water cooled Porsche with a barge pole. The 911 is an iconic shape, the badge, the kudos but the emperor isn't wearing any clothes. Every time I see a modern Porsche I think "poor bugger". My wife would love a Porsche. I'd like to get her a 964, but can no longer afford one. I can afford a 996 but with the well documented engine problems I will not go near one.
fuchsiasteve said:
suffolk009 said:
These continued engine problems are an absolute disaster for Porsche.
My wife would love a Porsche. I'd like to get her a 964, but can no longer afford one. I can afford a 996 but with the well documented engine problems I will not go near one.
Ditto. I really fancied a 996 or a gen 1 997 but after all that is documented on the mechanical issues I wouldn't touch any water cooled Porsche with a barge pole. The 911 is an iconic shape, the badge, the kudos but the emperor isn't wearing any clothes. Every time I see a modern Porsche I think "poor bugger". My wife would love a Porsche. I'd like to get her a 964, but can no longer afford one. I can afford a 996 but with the well documented engine problems I will not go near one.
For interest.....I popped down to my local Centre in Guildford and inquired about the current situation and likely resolution and when orders might be taken again. I was fobbed off with some PR blah .......but was offered the opportunity to buy anyone of 4 cars (2 returned outright and 2 potentially to go back to owners - I doubt the owners knew of this).
OK I thought, I presume as all are registered and effectively 2nd hand they will be negotiate as such - "No Sir"...."they will be sold AS NEW"
Thanks but no thanks and off to Maranello I went!
OK I thought, I presume as all are registered and effectively 2nd hand they will be negotiate as such - "No Sir"...."they will be sold AS NEW"
Thanks but no thanks and off to Maranello I went!
Owners must be gutted. There you are facing all the negatives (convincing the wife, confronting the neighbours, ducking the colleagues, trying to avoid dents or being keyed in the car park... paying a wheelbarrow load of money) and convincing yourself it's all worth it, and than this.
Must seem to make it all pointless.
Must seem to make it all pointless.
chelme said:
And what amazes me more is the stench of the Press singing high praises for this manufacturer regardless.
braddo said:
And the poor reputation is more within car enthusiast circles - I bet the Porsche reputation is still just as strong out in the real world (hence Porsche's absolutely staggering sales volumes).
Of course it is. Whatever the journo's say is gospel. Also on forums like these. A big part of the people here own or have owned a performance car and have a hold on reality, but another big part only have the word of some failed or wannabe racing drivers and live by it as if they experienced it themselves.hondansx said:
Companies like Lotus should be capitalising on this.
Absolutely. When the first thought came up of buying a sportscar I compared owner reviews in my local market and was amazed of the criticism Porsche got, compared to what Lotus owners had to say. I never really considered a Porsche (no appeal to me), but if I had that would have been cured by reading what owners say on sites like planet9.anonymous said:
[redacted]
You've totally missed the point. Everything breaks down and no machine is perfect, but the backup of the dealer is the key to whether its a minor inconvenience or the end of a customer-brand relationship. The dealer is also, ultimately, supported by the manufacturer. In our industry machines are bought as much on the dealer backup and spares availability as the quality of the machine itself. If you break down and have a fitter there in 2 hours its not a major problem, but if you cant get going for 3 days then it can cost hundreds of thousands.
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