Pistonheads vehicles you don't "get"
Discussion
I am going to defend landrovers and in particular the defender
I have one in 1995 vintage, it was red it is now pink with sun bleach, it has aluminium corrosion scabs, its cold in the winter, the locks freeze in the winter, its noisy and thirsty
However I find it surprisingly comfy, its the only car I own that i never get a sore back in, mine is a particularly quick example, it will happily hit 85MPH, obviously in a field ;-) It will pull very heavy loads and its still on its first clutch after 120k of abuse. With the right tyres on it, it will literally go anywhere, there is loads of room for stuff in the back, people always let you out at junctions, you never have to worry about kerbing a wheel, the brakes are good, lack of ABS not so much, you can fix it with a hammer, every single part is easy to get and to fit, it has minimal electrics to go wrong
Finally to those who say they are un-reliable, how many 95 or older Hiluxs / landcruisers / L200s do you see on the road and how many old Land rovers are still going about?
Also they are an Iconic classic regardless of age!
I have never seen the attraction to a VW golf in any variant (GTI,R32,R, bluemotion) they are over priced, boring on the inside, pretty boring to drive, not as quick as their direct competitors and yet every single review raves about them and the fly off the forecourt???
I have one in 1995 vintage, it was red it is now pink with sun bleach, it has aluminium corrosion scabs, its cold in the winter, the locks freeze in the winter, its noisy and thirsty
However I find it surprisingly comfy, its the only car I own that i never get a sore back in, mine is a particularly quick example, it will happily hit 85MPH, obviously in a field ;-) It will pull very heavy loads and its still on its first clutch after 120k of abuse. With the right tyres on it, it will literally go anywhere, there is loads of room for stuff in the back, people always let you out at junctions, you never have to worry about kerbing a wheel, the brakes are good, lack of ABS not so much, you can fix it with a hammer, every single part is easy to get and to fit, it has minimal electrics to go wrong
Finally to those who say they are un-reliable, how many 95 or older Hiluxs / landcruisers / L200s do you see on the road and how many old Land rovers are still going about?
Also they are an Iconic classic regardless of age!
I have never seen the attraction to a VW golf in any variant (GTI,R32,R, bluemotion) they are over priced, boring on the inside, pretty boring to drive, not as quick as their direct competitors and yet every single review raves about them and the fly off the forecourt???
delta0 said:
braddo said:
What sort of speeds are you thinking? Are you talking about something meaningless like from 2000rpm in 4th gear?
I'd be surprised if there are hot hatches pulling away from 111Rs on the long straights at Snetterton and Silverstone, for example.
No 30-70 through gears.I'd be surprised if there are hot hatches pulling away from 111Rs on the long straights at Snetterton and Silverstone, for example.
SidewaysSi said:
zebra said:
SidewaysSi said:
zebra said:
SidewaysSi said:
zebra said:
Lotus Elise/Exige; ugly, underpowered and overrated handling. Seriously overpriced and a warm hatch will show them a clean pair of heals.g
Depends what you look for in a car. I adore mine - no FWD hatch gets remotely close IMO.Not sure you'll convince me about Lotus.
- steering feel. Very probably the finest steering of any car ever built.
- handling/ride. Mine is very benign yet will happily drift around corners.
Either you are into that sort of thing or not. Besides it is more than fast enough on the road - I couldn't care less for something like a Golf R.
It is a stunning car IMO.
macky17 said:
SidewaysSi said:
- steering feel. Very probably the finest steering of any car ever built.
Agreed that it is very difficult to understand how anyone could fail to 'get' an Elise. However, a friend who's owned his for ten years recently drove my Noble and said my steering is better... 
I got 143 MPH out of the Exige at Bruntingthorpe which was pretty good for a 1.8 litre car with a fair amount of downforce. Not much fun though. Being able to take the long sweeping bends back to the start of the straight at 120 MPH was though.
Yes lots of modern hot hatches will easily out drag them but they don't get close in terms of all round driving enjoyment.
I also drove a Noble 3R and loved the steering. I commented to the salesman at the time that it felt just like a bigger faster Elise.
SidewaysSi said:
zebra said:
SidewaysSi said:
zebra said:
SidewaysSi said:
zebra said:
Lotus Elise/Exige; ugly, underpowered and overrated handling. Seriously overpriced and a warm hatch will show them a clean pair of heals.g
Depends what you look for in a car. I adore mine - no FWD hatch gets remotely close IMO.Not sure you'll convince me about Lotus.
- steering feel. Very probably the finest steering of any car ever built.
- handling/ride. Mine is very benign yet will happily drift around corners.
Either you are into that sort of thing or not. Besides it is more than fast enough on the road - I couldn't care less for something like a Golf R.
It is a stunning car IMO.
As I said a few pages ago in response to the same comment, nothing I've ever driven with numberplates on has come even close to the driving experience of a Lotus - the feedback, the ride and handling, the car's responses, it's all just utterly fantastic and without equal. I don't just mean their faster models either, a bog standard Elise S has it in spades. As for the performance comparisons with hot hatches, to me it's not really relevant, but there's one odd thing I have noticed and that's whenever magazines like Autocar do timed laps in road cars, Lotuses always punch well above their weight, or should I say power to weight - basically they're always faster than you think they're going to be based on their performance stats. I assume it's the amazing ride and handling keeping the tyre in contact with the road better.
I've just re-read the post above and the suggestion that an Exige S (the V6 model?!) could be embarrassed by a hot hatch is a bit ridiculous. The Exige S is stupendously fast in A to B pace for a road car and to be honest I'd have thought you'd need a fairly serious supercar to keep up on a bumpy road - a hatchback like a Golf R or Megane 26R isn't going to stand a chance - even if you look at the numbers taken on a smooth surface they're way behind: 0-100mph is 14.3s for the Megane, 11.2s for the Golf R and for the Exige S is around 8-9 seconds depending which figures you believe (I've found 7.9, 9.6 and 8.9 using Google). The Exige Cup is obviously a stage further on from that. I can only assume that comment comes from someone who's tried one of the early 120bhp Elise S1s and one of the very latest hot hatches - I can't see any other way that it's a serious comment.
RobM77 said:
SidewaysSi said:
zebra said:
SidewaysSi said:
zebra said:
SidewaysSi said:
zebra said:
Lotus Elise/Exige; ugly, underpowered and overrated handling. Seriously overpriced and a warm hatch will show them a clean pair of heals.g
Depends what you look for in a car. I adore mine - no FWD hatch gets remotely close IMO.Not sure you'll convince me about Lotus.
- steering feel. Very probably the finest steering of any car ever built.
- handling/ride. Mine is very benign yet will happily drift around corners.
Either you are into that sort of thing or not. Besides it is more than fast enough on the road - I couldn't care less for something like a Golf R.
It is a stunning car IMO.
As I said a few pages ago in response to the same comment, nothing I've ever driven with numberplates on has come even close to the driving experience of a Lotus - the feedback, the ride and handling, the car's responses, it's all just utterly fantastic and without equal. I don't just mean their faster models either, a bog standard Elise S has it in spades. As for the performance comparisons with hot hatches, to me it's not really relevant, but there's one odd thing I have noticed and that's whenever magazines like Autocar do timed laps in road cars, Lotuses always punch well above their weight, or should I say power to weight - basically they're always faster than you think they're going to be based on their performance stats. I assume it's the amazing ride and handling keeping the tyre in contact with the road better.
I've just re-read the post above and the suggestion that an Exige S (the V6 model?!) could be embarrassed by a hot hatch is a bit ridiculous. The Exige S is stupendously fast in A to B pace for a road car and to be honest I'd have thought you'd need a fairly serious supercar to keep up on a bumpy road - a hatchback like a Golf R or Megane 26R isn't going to stand a chance - even if you look at the numbers taken on a smooth surface they're way behind: 0-100mph is 14.3s for the Megane, 11.2s for the Golf R and for the Exige S is around 8-9 seconds depending which figures you believe (I've found 7.9, 9.6 and 8.9 using Google). The Exige Cup is obviously a stage further on from that. I can only assume that comment comes from someone who's tried one of the early 120bhp Elise S1s and one of the very latest hot hatches - I can't see any other way that it's a serious comment.
SonicShadow said:
A useful stat for racing Barry on a dual carriageway, but it's not got much relevance on a proper road or a race track.
On the road that is the most useful stat. The benefit the Elise has is in the bends, it can also carry more speed too. The Elise lacks oomph at the top end so tracks it works best on are ones without long straights. For example the Civic Type R at Nurburgring is 7:50. Elise SC 8:41.
Any fast Ford. I understand they have huge following but regardless of whether it's a Mexico, RS, XR or Cosworth, I don't think I've ever looked twice at one. Certainly never fancied driving one, let alone owning one.
Any classic British sports car (MGBs, Midgets, Spitfires, E-Types, Healeys). If you want classic British sport car get a MX5. If you're one of the many people who dislike the MX5, then get a Boxster.
The original Mini.
Any classic British sports car (MGBs, Midgets, Spitfires, E-Types, Healeys). If you want classic British sport car get a MX5. If you're one of the many people who dislike the MX5, then get a Boxster.
The original Mini.
Tastyweat said:
SUVs... all of them, every brand, every make, every type.
(note: does not include genuine off road vehicles like a proper range rover or SUVs that are good at off road like a range rover [sport not included])
They seem like the most stupid thing ever invented.
- Terrible fuel economy
- Slow (mostly)
- Poor handling
- Worse in a crash than most well-built "normal" vehicles due to the size of the panels/frame and subsequent flimsyness
Oddly, the last one is why many soccer-moms tend to buy the silly things as they assume that it's safer because it's bigger...
They're an horrific waste of space, money and a clear demonstration of the extreme stpuidity of the driver.
To give them credit... at the very least... they are a very big badge saying "stay well clear of this driver" or "get past this one as fast as you possibly can"...
/rant
+1 million(note: does not include genuine off road vehicles like a proper range rover or SUVs that are good at off road like a range rover [sport not included])
They seem like the most stupid thing ever invented.
- Terrible fuel economy
- Slow (mostly)
- Poor handling
- Worse in a crash than most well-built "normal" vehicles due to the size of the panels/frame and subsequent flimsyness
Oddly, the last one is why many soccer-moms tend to buy the silly things as they assume that it's safer because it's bigger...
They're an horrific waste of space, money and a clear demonstration of the extreme stpuidity of the driver.
To give them credit... at the very least... they are a very big badge saying "stay well clear of this driver" or "get past this one as fast as you possibly can"...
/rant
PHMatt said:
I don't see the fascination with any vehicle fitted with a V-Tec engine*
Revving the b
ks off something on public roads is about as doable as doughnuts in a police station car park. There's nothing of any use to the daily drive until you get your revs up, so effectively, for 99% of the time, you might as well be driving around in something a lot more mundane.
That misses the point of the system. The point of VTEC and similar variable valve timing systems is more low and mid range torque than you would get from a similarly sized engine with similar peak power. If you'd rather make the same power with a larger engine or a forced induction one, that's about making more power through more torque rather than more revs, not about VTEC.Revving the b
ks off something on public roads is about as doable as doughnuts in a police station car park. There's nothing of any use to the daily drive until you get your revs up, so effectively, for 99% of the time, you might as well be driving around in something a lot more mundane.I've had a few high revving cars - Civic Type-R, RX-8, Elise 111R - and I've never found being in the right gear to use the performance a problem. You don't use all of the performance of any engine anything but a small proportion of the time. It's only really an issue if your driving style requires you to use hard acceleration without enough planning to be in the right gear.
IroningMan said:
MarshPhantom said:
wormus said:
Axionknight said:
IroningMan said:
MR2 - ugly chav death trap
205GTi - noisy cocoa tin
BL Mini - hateful in every respect
205GTi - noisy cocoa tin
BL Mini - hateful in every respect
You take that back!They're shot through with rust traps and go wrong on a daily basis - and when they do so even the simplest job is guaranteed to result in blood loss.
Awful little s
tboxes....fantastic rally pedigree too so a proper PH car.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 24th July 13:31
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