2 young guys killed in Austrian Alps racing. Came off a clif

[Welshbeef]

s m said:

Do you mean the Milltir Cerrig NW of Llangynog? If so, don't watch the Jag test drivers come down there!

Yep thats it - and yes I've accidentally been a little fast one time and round the corner a fking Tractor with The hay bale spike at the rear and utterly blind corner .... I couldn't stop so had to swerve thankfully it was clear. I drive MUCH slower since and on those sorts of road ever since I'm always able to stop within my visual distance safely.

(I pulled over in the very next siding for quite some time.

[andrewparker]

getawayturtle said:

Ghibli said:

Yes I did,

If you look at the link in Heroino's post you can go to the time,date, zoom etc.

The car is not in the footage, police were on the scene very quickly.

Indeed. Sobering image.

Bloody hell

[danjama]

Sobering stuff. I'm only in Essex myself and had seen his very car at various meets.

[aeropilot]

Gary C said:

Welshbeef said:

Watching that Facebook vid I was cringing that's WAY WAY too fast for comfort.

A stunning drive like that I'd want to be on a smooth slow drive - lots of stops to admire the views and not once would I ever be chirping the tyres. There is a very loosely "similar" road in North to mid Wales near Corwen the drop is terrifying but the views are wonderful.

Also I'm not sure brakes can keep up with hat sort of heavy braking constantly - if it were normal road speed that's fine but 100mph++ hard stops would get them near on useless discs glowing and pedal rock hard you've no chance to stop the car then.

Trouble is, without the right fluid, a glowing disk results in the fluid boiling and the pedal goes really long, really suddenly. Happened to me in Austria in my Astra that I used to road rally in. Mintex pads were more than up to it but the fluid could not cope.

Only managed to stop with the gears and the handbrake before the hairpin. Disks bright red, centre caps melted off and small flames from the pads. Had no real idea it was going to happen as the pads didn't fade being high temp m141 spec. Wonder if he had updated pads ?

Very real possibility. Been there & experienced that myself in the Lake District while driving a chase car on the 1988 RAC Rally. Was very lucky that didn't end badly.

[EVO575]

Very sad news.A horrible accident.A few years ago whilst co-driving on a Welsh forest rally,we went over the edge of a massive drop at full tilt due to a mechanical failure.The drops had been in the back of my mind all morning and I was thinking f### me I don't want to go off here!,.Those seconds that we were airborne were terrifying and we were both convinced it was all over. When the car landed it rolled through a combination of tree stumps and rocks maybe 6-8 times.When the spectators arrived they thought that they were going to come across a grim scene but we both walked away unhurt,I suppose due to a combination of a strong car(totalled!),and all the safety gear inc hans,and the pure luck of a tree stump not coming into the car.Scariest experience of my life though and one I'll never forget.RIP lads.

[wc98]

heebeegeetee said:

Well, bloody hell, living in the UK you're hardly likely to encounter any are you, unless you specifically go out of your way to go to one.

I also think that punctures are rare, punctures which pull the car off line are even more rare and the odds of it happening on a mountain pass to a uk resident must be just short of incalcuable.

i agree, but it does happen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yqQYjz8jnw

[heronio]

getawayturtle said:

Indeed. Sobering image.

This is the approach, you can see the stone shelter building on the crest of the hill.

https://goo.gl/maps/kMoqA

[heebeegeetee]

wc98 said:

i agree, but it does happen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yqQYjz8jnw

Fair enough, but they've had to go to a lot of trouble to do that, haven't they? Possibly starting with deviating from standard spec on the brakes?

[Earl of Petrol]

Terrible tragedy, it's to be remembered that losing your kids must be the worst thing to happen. A lot of infuriating rubbish (readers comments) has been written on the website of one of the tabloids, but to be fair much of the report for that newspaper appeared to be fantasy, for example they've written that the car was travelling at 120 mph, where would they get that from?
It's clear from the car type and event they were taking part in, that they were ''petrol heads' maybe PHers, in any case two of our community have been lost and we should take time out and reflect respectfully on that.

[gazza285]

heebeegeetee said:

wc98 said:

i agree, but it does happen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yqQYjz8jnw

Fair enough, but they've had to go to a lot of trouble to do that, haven't they? Possibly starting with deviating from standard spec on the brakes?

We have the "Keep in low gear" signs, yet lorries still run out of brakes in this country. I've boiled the brakes in two of my vans and once in my Mk1 Escort, which had uprated ventilated discs and four pot calipers. Non of these were on long Alpine descents.

[heebeegeetee]

gazza285 said:

We have the "Keep in low gear" signs, yet lorries still run out of brakes in this country. I've boiled the brakes in two of my vans and once in my Mk1 Escort, which had uprated ventilated discs and four pot calipers. Non of these were on long Alpine descents.

Hmm, I'm an ex hgv driver and I've not heard of an hgv running out of brakes for a very long time indeed. I also think that if you boil brake fluid in a car in the uk then there's something very wrong indeed. I did once all but set fire to my front brakes on a very long downhill alpine descent on a road rally but still didn't boil the fluid.

In fact total brake failure is very, very rare, but I'd wager it's more likely to happen to modified brakes than standard, I'm afraid.

[aw51 121565]

heebeegeetee said:

herewego said:

I asked because the organisers say:

"The following day we gather in the centre of this magnificent city to recap our epic adventure, share stories and hand out this year's awards to the winning teams of the previous challenges."

Right, I don't know what the challenges are, but I doubt there's anything remotely involving Motorsport. Maybe there's a daily treasure hunt or something, but I'm certain it is not possible in daylight to organise anything other than a regularity event with an average speed of well under 30 mph.

I'm certain the event is just an organised tour though.

There'll be scrutiny over the wording of the organisers editorial though, any reference to timing could see them in deep trouble.

I did Staples2Naples2005; the first day's test - driving across France and into Switzerland - was Car Snooker, aiming for the maximum score using a digital camera (my team got a 147)...

Day two was a case of matching up something like 28 photos (some taken from the opposite direction) to their locations (it was a drive across Switzerland and we had issues around a collapsing front wheel bearing so it was a case of pressing on rather than pissing about); day 3 was a thrash across Italy to Viterbo (again, we didn't engage preferring to get to base, but it was a case of visiting the prescribed "Pump Number Ones at the prescribed filling stations at various locations while wearing ponchos and taking photos" from memory this day.

Day Four was a case of touring the Lazio region in Italy following clues and answering questions on paper; the final 'stop' included an answer sheet, then a final drive to a resort hotel at Castell Volturno where we all got sozzled.

On the first day, we got to the end of the "stage" ( ) at Sarnen several hours before quite a few other participants whose cars' brakes were smoking - we were in a Montego TD Estate!! On Day two we were passed (with mutual agreement) and left behind by the "sweeper" cars of the organisers - but by no means were we the last or even later) arrivals at the stopover! Ditto the third and fourth days .

These events are not "races" in the English sense of the word; unfortunately, much is lost in translation .

PS RIP fellas .

[Polarbert]

Very tragic indeed. A couple of chaps were killed out this way recently in an MX5. Not quite as dramatic as dropping 1,000ft down, but still. http://www.cbs8.com/story/29573783/two-people-kill...

[CorvetteConvert]

The truth is the 'best' biking and driving roads are also the most dangerous in many respects. I was driving a 2013 Corvette on Highway 2 in California just last week and it's one of my favourite roads on the planet. Great surface, a very long and wide rural route, with no real traffic as it goes nowhere in particular outside of the ski season, very few cars, no trucks hardly; it's been a bike and car heaven for 36 years for me and friends. But even that has seen so many bike/car rider/driver deaths BECAUSE of the speeds possible, that they have lowered the speed limit and have regular patrols. I have said it before and i will never stop saying it despite getting plenty of counter-views...ok few of us are angels, most sports bike/car riders/drivers love speed, but racing people or doing silly speeds on the public road is a license to death or jail, for you and/or the poor innocent b*st*rd you take out.
Track days are there for the crazy speeds. Use them. There's nothing coming the other way, there are no cliffs to fall off, no rocks awaiting and nobody doing 45 mph listening to Herb Alpert.

[Redlake27]

Good advice in the post above.

Like, I'm sure many on here, if I get on a road like the Grossglockner you can't help but use it to test your skills and toy.
There are plenty of places on the Grossglockner where being well under the speed limit would result in leaving the road.

I can think of many drives in the Pyrenees, Alps and even English B-roads where I've pushed a bit too hard. Now, I don't. I'll go to a track day. I'm still (occasionally) a fast road driver, but I've taken other road users awareness for granted a few times too often.

But before we jump to tabloid type conclusions, it is sadly no surprise that such crashes happen. These are dangerous roads, and just like bikers who head to the TT, we go there because they are thrilling.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

heronio said:

Ghibli said:

http://youtu.be/8qBmVzuGyqs

I believe the accident happened at 22:15 of the above clip (not taken by them)

In the Daily Mirror article at the bottom there is a time lapse of the location. It looks like they were on the way up. I could be wrong though.

22:23 - compare it to the DM webcam timelapse and it's just where the pedestrians are walking past. The biker gets some serious speed up to that point.

http://www.grossglockner.at/en/service/grossglockn... original link for the webcams (very bottom footage). 24/7/15 between 7.30 and 7.40am. Archive does not show the point of impact (thankfully) but you can very clearly see the broken barriers, and then later on the police mark on the footpath with orange paint, the direction of travel of the wheels

Suspect they weren't anticipating such a tight corner.. RIP

getawayturtle said:

Indeed. Sobering image.

My word that's all more than a little uncomfortable, a tight unsighted bend after a long straight and then off the end of the world
Regardless of the rights and wrongs that's two families devastated after a stupid mistake. I've resisted posting until know as I've done my fair share of spirited driving on these types of roads-still do.

I have to say this event will slow me down.

[RemyMartin]

I have to say, whilst clearly tragic, I'm not sure why this is more newsworthy than say any other road death that happens on a daily basis, probably more to do with the shots of the wreckage.

I also think that were this to happen in the UK rather than the Alps the response on here would be very different. Its the parents I feel sorry for not the two dead. They have to live with it everyday and see their kids names stirred through the media.

[aeropilot]

RemyMartin said:

Its the parents I feel sorry for not the two dead.

[Boydie88]

wc98 said:

i agree, but it does happen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yqQYjz8jnw

Yep, would love to take the VX on a road like that, but the fear of a toe link going like the first one did puts me off.
Sadly, looking at the first video and the image of the road before the incident, it's a little too easy to take a guess.

That video was pretty intense at the end, I drive like a pussy on roads I don't know - never mind when there is a 1000ft drop next to me.

Clear enthusiasts though, RIP lads. So frustrating how it was reported as a race before anything was known.

[anonymous-user]

Sympathy for the passenger, and the families. Not much for the driver. Take yourself out whilst driving like a tt, fair enough. To kill someone else is unforgivable.