RE: Tesla Model S: PH Carpool
Discussion
otolith said:
I've not sat in one - these comments about "quality", is this an objective judgement, or is it just that "not styled just like a German car therefore cheap" thing?
The ambiance is more Hyundai than S Class. Bizarrely, the Tesla looks on the inside like a car that has done loads of weight saving, but it obviously havent given its weight!Mosdef said:
But again, the Tesla doesn't offer any of the engagement of an M5, M6 GC, AMG, Audi RS, Panamera, QP etc. If you have £90k to spend on a car, why would you care about fuel bills? A 2 tonne weight doesn't meant a car has to be dull, but an ICE can add a lot of character.
Benefit in kind tax.....bertie said:
Benefit in kind tax.....
I'm sure that's a big motivation for those who can run a car through their company but for private buyers of a £90k car, it's irrelevant. I'd take character and engagement personally but have the luxury of being able to make that choice and the Tesla wouldn't suit the journeys I do. otolith said:
I've not sat in one - these comments about "quality", is this an objective judgement, or is it just that "not styled just like a German car therefore cheap" thing?
i haven't sat in a 'best possible specification P90' but in the P85 I drove, the seats felt like they were made of cheap materials (although someone mentioned they come from BMW - not sure which model), the dash flexed and it just felt Toyota esque as far as quality of components were concerned and didn't feel anything like £60k of car. ORD said:
otolith said:
I've not sat in one - these comments about "quality", is this an objective judgement, or is it just that "not styled just like a German car therefore cheap" thing?
The ambiance is more Hyundai than S Class. Bizarrely, the Tesla looks on the inside like a car that has done loads of weight saving, but it obviously haven't given its weight!otolith - as an owner, I can assure you the quality of the interior is just fine now, it's not first-in-class but it's also significantly better than many Mercedes' I've been in. As I said earlier, roughly equivalent to an E91 BMW interior, but not as good/solid as the older E39's.
In terms of ambience, once again ORD is talking nonsense I'm afraid. I don't know how many Hyundai's have alcantara headlinings and carbon fibre or wood dashes, but I'd say the ambience in here is spot-on:
ORD said:
And the Tesla isn't even very fast at motorway speeds, is it? It's trick is 0-30 from what I remember, although I may be wrong.
Its 0-60 is 2.8 seconds (for the P85D), so which ever way you look at it its blistering quick. Plenty of PH members have had experience of the acceleration now and most are blown away by it. I've heard first hand experience of it affecting eyesight during acceleration.It is not a slow car.
Mike_C said:
What a sack of horse$hit you keep peddling!
otolith - as an owner, I can assure you the quality of the interior is just fine now, it's not first-in-class but it's also significantly better than many Mercedes' I've been in. As I said earlier, roughly equivalent to an E91 BMW interior, but not as good/solid as the older E39's.
In terms of ambience, once again ORD is talking nonsense I'm afraid. I don't know how many Hyundai's have alcantara headlinings and carbon fibre or wood dashes, but I'd say the ambience in here is spot-on:
But that's the point isn't it? It's a £60k car with an interior the equivalent of a recent 3 series. Some expensive looking materials might help but the overall feel is not up to scratch. For some buyers, the drivetrain more than makes up for that and for buyers who are obsessed with interior quality/premium feel, it won't be the car for them (until Tesla ups its game).otolith - as an owner, I can assure you the quality of the interior is just fine now, it's not first-in-class but it's also significantly better than many Mercedes' I've been in. As I said earlier, roughly equivalent to an E91 BMW interior, but not as good/solid as the older E39's.
In terms of ambience, once again ORD is talking nonsense I'm afraid. I don't know how many Hyundai's have alcantara headlinings and carbon fibre or wood dashes, but I'd say the ambience in here is spot-on:
Agreed on Mercedes, I thought the interior in my 2013 E63 was poor quality and base spec E classes are dreadful, equivalent of Toyota in my view.
Can't comment on Hyundais, never been in one.
Mosdef said:
But again, the Tesla doesn't offer any of the engagement of an M5, M6 GC, AMG, Audi RS, Panamera, QP etc.
A Tesla (or other high performance electric car) offers a different engagement. You'll get used to it :-)Most of the vehicles you list above now augment (fake?) their sound - at least you hear the real thing with a BEV, which is quite addictive.
98elise said:
Its 0-60 is 2.8 seconds (for the P85D), so which ever way you look at it its blistering quick. Plenty of PH members have had experience of the acceleration now and most are blown away by it. I've heard first hand experience of it affecting eyesight during acceleration.
It is not a slow car.
0-60 isn't terribly relevant on a motorway. It is not a slow car.
I've no doubt that it the Tesla is quite pointlessly and astonishingly fast. Nobody is going to notice much that it runs out of puff. It's all theory, really, but the fact remains that the Model S does not do anything particularly remarkable once it hits motorway speeds. Contrast other super barges that come into their stride at highish speed.
My point is simply that the Tesla's trick isn't much use in its natural environment (motorway cruising).
Mike_C said:
What a sack of horse$hit you keep peddling!
otolith - as an owner, I can assure you the quality of the interior is just fine now, it's not first-in-class but it's also significantly better than many Mercedes' I've been in. As I said earlier, roughly equivalent to an E91 BMW interior, but not as good/solid as the older E39's.
In terms of ambience, once again ORD is talking nonsense I'm afraid. I don't know how many Hyundai's have alcantara headlinings and carbon fibre or wood dashes, but I'd say the ambience in here is spot-on:
I must be making it up.otolith - as an owner, I can assure you the quality of the interior is just fine now, it's not first-in-class but it's also significantly better than many Mercedes' I've been in. As I said earlier, roughly equivalent to an E91 BMW interior, but not as good/solid as the older E39's.
In terms of ambience, once again ORD is talking nonsense I'm afraid. I don't know how many Hyundai's have alcantara headlinings and carbon fibre or wood dashes, but I'd say the ambience in here is spot-on:
A fanboi owner will provide a far more objective assessment! (Sarcasm warning).
In seriousness, the Tesla S I sat in did not seem premium in the slightest (not that I care too much about that kind of thing). It felt relatively utilitarian and basic compared to cars at similar price points.
E91 BMW is not a high hurdle, although the current crop of BMWs are even worse!
ORD said:
98elise said:
Its 0-60 is 2.8 seconds (for the P85D), so which ever way you look at it its blistering quick. Plenty of PH members have had experience of the acceleration now and most are blown away by it. I've heard first hand experience of it affecting eyesight during acceleration.
It is not a slow car.
0-60 isn't terribly relevant on a motorway. It is not a slow car.
I've no doubt that it the Tesla is quite pointlessly and astonishingly fast. Nobody is going to notice much that it runs out of puff. It's all theory, really, but the fact remains that the Model S does not do anything particularly remarkable once it hits motorway speeds. Contrast other super barges that come into their stride at highish speed.
My point is simply that the Tesla's trick isn't much use in its natural environment (motorway cruising).
98elise said:
ORD said:
98elise said:
Its 0-60 is 2.8 seconds (for the P85D), so which ever way you look at it its blistering quick. Plenty of PH members have had experience of the acceleration now and most are blown away by it. I've heard first hand experience of it affecting eyesight during acceleration.
It is not a slow car.
0-60 isn't terribly relevant on a motorway. It is not a slow car.
I've no doubt that it the Tesla is quite pointlessly and astonishingly fast. Nobody is going to notice much that it runs out of puff. It's all theory, really, but the fact remains that the Model S does not do anything particularly remarkable once it hits motorway speeds. Contrast other super barges that come into their stride at highish speed.
My point is simply that the Tesla's trick isn't much use in its natural environment (motorway cruising).
modeller said:
A Tesla (or other high performance electric car) offers a different engagement. You'll get used to it :-)
Most of the vehicles you list above now augment (fake?) their sound - at least you hear the real thing with a BEV, which is quite addictive.
As far as engagement is concerned, I like using gears and revs and preferably wouldn't have a car with turbos or an EV because I don't like the power delivery / lack of response (turbos, not Tesla) / lack of noise. I can see the merits of the Tesla but it's not going to be particularly high on any driver's list for thrills (other than 0-60 runs).Most of the vehicles you list above now augment (fake?) their sound - at least you hear the real thing with a BEV, which is quite addictive.
I'd still take fake or augmented noise over no noise / electric motor whine but that probably makes me a marketing man's dream!
Mosdef said:
I'm sure that's a big motivation for those who can run a car through their company but for private buyers of a £90k car, it's irrelevant. I'd take character and engagement personally but have the luxury of being able to make that choice and the Tesla wouldn't suit the journeys I do.
Yes mine will be a company car, and it saves me just over £10k a year in tax compared to the RR Sport , and it will be our "big family car."Mosdef said:
As far as engagement is concerned, I like using gears and revs and preferably wouldn't have a car with turbos or an EV because I don't like the power delivery / lack of response (turbos, not Tesla) / lack of noise. I can see the merits of the Tesla but it's not going to be particularly high on any driver's list for thrills (other than 0-60 runs).
I'd still take fake or augmented noise over no noise / electric motor whine but that probably makes me a marketing man's dream!
Lets be honest, you don't want a 5m long near 2 tonne car of any description if it's a fun drive you're after, and does anyone even make one with a manual box anyway?I'd still take fake or augmented noise over no noise / electric motor whine but that probably makes me a marketing man's dream!
An M5 / RS6 / AMG / Panamera is hardly the thing you take out just for fun.
Horses for courses, for my normal boring daily drive on congested A roads, the Tesla suits brilliantly.
At the weekends if fun is on the cards, I'm lucky enough to have other options.
bertie said:
Lets be honest, you don't want a 5m long near 2 tonne car of any description if it's a fun drive you're after, and does anyone even make one with a manual box anyway?
An M5 / RS6 / AMG / Panamera is hardly the thing you take out just for fun.
Horses for courses, for my normal boring daily drive on congested A roads, the Tesla suits brilliantly.
At the weekends if fun is on the cards, I'm lucky enough to have other options.
I agree, they're not lightweight / fun focussed sportscars but the right iterations of the examples above can still be enjoyable to drive and have much more of a sense of occasion, which comes back to what I said earlier about the Tesla being purely a device to have alongside other weekend / trackday cars, albeit one with a decent turn of speed. You're probably the ideal Tesla customer along with urban family users who only want one decently sized car to do everything.An M5 / RS6 / AMG / Panamera is hardly the thing you take out just for fun.
Horses for courses, for my normal boring daily drive on congested A roads, the Tesla suits brilliantly.
At the weekends if fun is on the cards, I'm lucky enough to have other options.
p1stonhead said:
Anyone who is commenting that the model s is no good but who also hasn't driven one needs to keep quiet.
Go test drive a 90D then come back.
And before anyone says '0-60 and performance' doesn't matter - yes it bloody well does.
I have never experienced acceleration like it. Not even close.
I happen to live the interior too but that's very subjective.
0-60 times are way way down on my list of wants in a car. So in my opinion, you're wrong. It doesn't matter. As has been said many a time, it's good fun for a week or two, then gets boring. Go test drive a 90D then come back.
And before anyone says '0-60 and performance' doesn't matter - yes it bloody well does.
I have never experienced acceleration like it. Not even close.
I happen to live the interior too but that's very subjective.
My list of wants from cars are:-
- looks good inside & out (oh, that's a failure at the first hurdle for the Tesla then
)- good quality materials that aren't going to keep rattling - my Audi A5 and all my BMWs failed here
- good long-distance cruiser that I can take around Europe, as well as go ~400 miles to a customer when I have to.
- technology that allows me to do what I need to in a car, along with a decent powertrain that provides OK economy and allows safe overtakes, but also can have a bit of a hoon with.
So there's no real point in me going to test drive a Tesla really is there?
fatboy b said:
p1stonhead said:
Anyone who is commenting that the model s is no good but who also hasn't driven one needs to keep quiet.
Go test drive a 90D then come back.
And before anyone says '0-60 and performance' doesn't matter - yes it bloody well does.
I have never experienced acceleration like it. Not even close.
I happen to live the interior too but that's very subjective.
0-60 times are way way down on my list of wants in a car. So in my opinion, you're wrong. It doesn't matter. As has been said many a time, it's good fun for a week or two, then gets boring. Go test drive a 90D then come back.
And before anyone says '0-60 and performance' doesn't matter - yes it bloody well does.
I have never experienced acceleration like it. Not even close.
I happen to live the interior too but that's very subjective.
My list of wants from cars are:-
- looks good inside & out (oh, that's a failure at the first hurdle for the Tesla then
)- good quality materials that aren't going to keep rattling - my Audi A5 and all my BMWs failed here
- good long-distance cruiser that I can take around Europe, as well as go ~400 miles to a customer when I have to.
- technology that allows me to do what I need to in a car, along with a decent powertrain that provides OK economy and allows safe overtakes, but also can have a bit of a hoon with.
So there's no real point in me going to test drive a Tesla really is there?
The materials are fine. They may have been a bit poor at first but current cars are much better. The one I drove was good quality.
I dont ever do long journeys. Again if you constantly do then its obviously not the car for you. You can drive most of europe via superchargers with a bit of route planning. Maybe not ideal but free fuel for a whole european road trip would appeal to me.
The technology is as far along as any other car so no negative there.
Plus its faster accelerating for a Ferrari so thats a plus for me. Handling seeemed pretty good too. Again, if these things dont matter then thats fine but every negative you have posted is due to your own preferences so you cant say its a bad car.
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