RE: Polish Man Builds McLaren F1
Discussion
Wilder said:
As a footnote, this protection is based on a commercial basis, and an individuals efforts to copy this system is not likely to cause any concern unless it was to be done commercially. A patent is first and foremost designed to protect intellectual property rights from other businesses who may seek to prosper from the applicants design.
True enough. Indeed it is my understanding that the employment of patented designs for individual, non-commercial purposes is specifically allowed in law. But since SS clearly undertakes paid automotive development work for others, he would be hard pressed to prove no commercial interest, even if he is building the car himself, for his exclusive personal use.Taken alongside the obvious breach of design copyright cause by replicating the body shape, he's on very thin ice indeed, if McLaren become aware of the car and choose to take action to prevent theft of their design.
Whilst I'm sure we all have the greatest respect for the technical ability of these people, ultimately creating a visually accurate copy of a design that is new enough to remain protected under law makes them no better than the guys who hawk dodgy copies of DVD's on street corners.
...which is why the whole business of replicating supercars remains so shady and furtive, and why its exponents are probably rightfully nervous to have their work exposed on the internet.
Re the body shape. My understanding is this is one area that cannot be patented or trademarked. If that were the case where would it end. In extremis..the originator of the first 4 door car could argue that everyone has stolen their design & should now pay up).
Take the examples of the number of Ferrari MR2 clones.
They can be sold on the open market, but not with the Ferrari badges. This is because a shape cannot be protected, but the prancing horse badge is a unique identifying mark applicable only to Ferrari cars.
The latest news story on the Chinese company who specialise in lookalike copies of RR cars demonstrates this perfectly with the Geely reported in PH a little while ago
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Fake Phantom for Shanghai show
Geely have previously copied other models so closely, they surely would be guilty of infringement.
Now I do know Geely were considering buying one of the big Western car manufacturers, though I cant remember which one, but that clearly shows that they have some big money and resources available to them. With RR, the grille and spirit of extacy are trademarked, and this is one area that even a small change in shape of the mascot or grill vents can allow Geely to get away with it.
Take the examples of the number of Ferrari MR2 clones.
They can be sold on the open market, but not with the Ferrari badges. This is because a shape cannot be protected, but the prancing horse badge is a unique identifying mark applicable only to Ferrari cars.
The latest news story on the Chinese company who specialise in lookalike copies of RR cars demonstrates this perfectly with the Geely reported in PH a little while ago
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Fake Phantom for Shanghai show
Geely have previously copied other models so closely, they surely would be guilty of infringement.
Now I do know Geely were considering buying one of the big Western car manufacturers, though I cant remember which one, but that clearly shows that they have some big money and resources available to them. With RR, the grille and spirit of extacy are trademarked, and this is one area that even a small change in shape of the mascot or grill vents can allow Geely to get away with it.
Edited by Wilder on Monday 4th May 13:11
In respect of body shape, registered/unregistered design rights apply.
Unregistered design rights are automatic, and extend 10 years from the end of the calender year in which the design was first marketed. Registration of the design gives up to 25 years protection. I haven't looked it up, but I would be astonished if McLaren hadn't applied for registration of the F1's design.
I suspect that the main reason Ferrari don't ruthlessly pursue the manufacturers of MR2 bodykits is that they realise how difficult it is to apply the litigation - by the time the case reached court, the moulds have disappeared and kits are being produced somewhere else. They are well known for making threats of legal action, however, hence the smoke-and-mirrors approach taken by many manufacturers. A good example was the Ferrari F40 replica on display at Stoneleigh this weekend - the display information was keen to stress that whilst it wouldn't be impossible to manufacture a complete replica based on the panels available, they were only being marketed for the purposes of replacing existing panels.
Unregistered design rights are automatic, and extend 10 years from the end of the calender year in which the design was first marketed. Registration of the design gives up to 25 years protection. I haven't looked it up, but I would be astonished if McLaren hadn't applied for registration of the F1's design.
I suspect that the main reason Ferrari don't ruthlessly pursue the manufacturers of MR2 bodykits is that they realise how difficult it is to apply the litigation - by the time the case reached court, the moulds have disappeared and kits are being produced somewhere else. They are well known for making threats of legal action, however, hence the smoke-and-mirrors approach taken by many manufacturers. A good example was the Ferrari F40 replica on display at Stoneleigh this weekend - the display information was keen to stress that whilst it wouldn't be impossible to manufacture a complete replica based on the panels available, they were only being marketed for the purposes of replacing existing panels.
Sam_68 said:
A good example was the Ferrari F40 replica on display at Stoneleigh this weekend - the display information was keen to stress that whilst it wouldn't be impossible to manufacture a complete replica based on the panels available, they were only being marketed for the purposes of replacing existing panels.
Oooooooh! Now you are talking... I would love an F40, over a McLaren (sorry people!)...Any photos???
Sam, I would be interested if thats the case to know why Geely openly publicise that model at a world event car show, and more interestingly, are allowed to do so if its an illegal copy..
Again, I suspect that it has to be a direct copy of form, and not an approximation to make it an offence, or it would be impossible to say where the line should be drawn -everyone would sue everyone else if a car even looked similar in outline to another manufacturers, which clearly could not be practical.
Again, I suspect that it has to be a direct copy of form, and not an approximation to make it an offence, or it would be impossible to say where the line should be drawn -everyone would sue everyone else if a car even looked similar in outline to another manufacturers, which clearly could not be practical.
Edited by Wilder on Tuesday 5th May 13:34
Wilder said:
Again, I suspect that it has to be a direct copy of form, and not an approximation to make it an offence, or it would be impossible to say where the line should be drawn -everyone would sue everyone else if a car even looked similar in outline to another manufacturers, which clearly could not be practical.
The line is not a clear one, and it has to be drawn in a court of law, which puts most people off (including the owners of the design, because they risk opening the floodgates to other copies should the court rule that a particular 'copy' is, in fact, only an 'approximation' and therefore legal).I agree that bringing legal action for breach of design rights is not straightforward - which is why in the case of the F1 replicas I've expressed the opinion that it would be a whole lot easier to prove breach of patent instead - but that doesn't mean that it's not illegal, or that actions are never brought: I'd refer you to the litigation between Caterham and Westfield; though even that one was settled out of court in the end (in Caterham's favour).
In this particular case, however, the F1 replicas are direct copies of form, so far as it is possible to tell, so they're pretty exposed if McLaren should ever choose to protect its intellectual property.
Looks like the Polish man has some competition.
As per the blog postings, its very recent. He is doing an excellent job of the body, anyone up for an F1LM!!
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2770509...
Shame the builder has used an undesirable donor car though.
As per the blog postings, its very recent. He is doing an excellent job of the body, anyone up for an F1LM!!
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2770509...
Shame the builder has used an undesirable donor car though.
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