RE: Unveiled: Caterham's Dramatic New SP/300.R

[MarkoNoTVR]

My pants have just twitched quite severely......

[Ex Boy Racer]

says it all as far as I'm concerned... a Caterham sales video that doesn't feature the car actually driving. Caterham's have always been about that - the connection between car and driver. this doesn't even refer to that!

[Famous Graham]

Bit of a shame you didn't credit our very own //dean for the photos...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Sam_68]

James.S said:

Sam_68 said:

But is a move into the circuit racing market the right way for a company like Caterham to go, do you think?

They have a well established business selling road/trackday cars. Most race car manufacturers seem to aspire to a move in the opposite direction in order to grow and gain stability?

what absolute rubbish........

Would you care to expand on why you think that?

I can name you any number of race car manufacturers, from Lotus to McLaren, who have tried to make the move from race car to road car manufacture in order to stabilise their cash flow, but I can't think of many who have thought it sensible to try to move in the other direction.

The only good reason to expand a road car business into dedicated race cars is the halo effect of racing success, and it is difficult to see how Caterham will even derive much benefit from that: most of their customers are fairly clued-up and the car is clearly a Lola design. Hell, they can't even draw the kudos from building the cars, as no doubt most of the fabrication (as with the Seven) will be sub-contracted out (presumably back to Lola).

Lola seems to be making quite a nice business out of putting other people's badges on their cars, however, so at least one company has its head screwed on... unfortunately it didn't seem to help their last high-profile client to survive:

[sfaulds]

Sam_68 said:

James.S said:

Sam_68 said:

But is a move into the circuit racing market the right way for a company like Caterham to go, do you think?

They have a well established business selling road/trackday cars. Most race car manufacturers seem to aspire to a move in the opposite direction in order to grow and gain stability?

what absolute rubbish........

Would you care to expand on why you think that?

I can name you any number of race car manufacturers, from Lotus to McLaren, who have tried to make the move from race car to road car manufacture in order to stabilise their cash flow, but I can't think of many who have thought it sensible to try to move in the other direction.

The only good reason to expand a road car business into dedicated race cars is the halo effect of racing success, and it is difficult to see how Caterham will even derive much benefit from that: most of their customers are fairly clued-up and the car is clearly a Lola design. Hell, they can't even draw the kudos from building the cars, as no doubt most of the fabrication (as with the Seven) will be sub-contracted out (presumably back to Lola).

Lola seems to be making quite a nice business out of putting other people's badges on their cars, however, so at least one company has its head screwed on... unfortunately it didn't seem to help their last high-profile client to survive:

Is your head so far up your @rse that you've not even noticed that Caterham have been selling race cars for as long as they've been in business? The fact they have 2 sold out series in the current financial climate might (to an impartial observer of course) suggest they're quite good at it.

I'm really at a loss to see why you're such a predictably negative arseh0le on these forums. Did someone run over your pet rabbit with a Caterham as a child? Or did one of the bullies Dad's drive one? I really wonder what your like did before they had the internet to irritate.

[pistolp]

Hahahahahahahahahahha

[RTH]

Furyblade_Lee said:

It's just a Lola with a Caterham badge on. Totally irrelevant for 99% of existing Caterham owners, only relevant for existing Caterham racers wanting to move up in the racing world. Not irrelevant in the big scheme of motor racing though, good luck to them. I am just dissapointed it's not a road car, even if it was just a £25k 750kg Caterham-badged S1 Lotus Elise, getting back to the roots Lotus seem to have abandoned

Something along those lines would have been real news.

[RobM77]

To SFauld's comment above -

He's right though - Caterham makes a good business out of motorsport, and in this financial climate especially it's a wise financial decision to stay in that sector to expand.

[Bahnstormer]

RobM77 said:

Mastodon2 said:

Pugsey said:

Hugely disappointing. All these rumours had me thinking an exciting new road car was in the wings.

Same, I've got no interest in track driving or circuit racing, rally is more my sort of thing, but I like previous Caterham cars and while the performance of this will be interesting, and it may be possible to drive it legally on the road, would you really want to? I mean, this isn't exactly the kind of car I'd want to tour say, the Lake District or the Highlands, where as a Caterham 7 of some description or even an Ariel Atom is something I could see myself enjoying on that kind of drive.

To be honest though guys, Caterham already make the 7 for all of that, and I don't think they could have bettered it. This was probably the better way forward - to make an enclosed sports car with aero and a mid mounted engine. The thing with specialist cars is that they don't appeal to everyone, and obviously if circuit racing isn't your thing, then this won't appeal. It is my thing though, and I'd jump at the chance to race one of these

Echoing what RobM77 said. I have a Seven, and recently took it to Brands for a trackday - fantastic fun track AND road car. But whilst there I went out in a Radical SR8. The speed is so blisteringly fast that using it as a road car would be difficult, as it is in another league in respect to speed and power of normal everyday cars, as well as trying to avoid potholes , drain covers, traffic calming , slower traffic etc.

So now Caterham have a track/road car in the Seven, and a Radical competitor for on track stuff when people want to move out of the top echelons of Caterham 7 racing and onto the SP.300.R or cars like it.

Good luck to them. I think they may be onto something !

[klivedrgar]

I think this looks amazing and the spec looks great - I can't comment on whether it offers value for money.

It seems a perfectly logical step for me. Caterham run a popular racing ladder which offers a very well thought out progression from novice through to serious racing. Drivers who have progressed successfully and enjoyed the ladder will be looking for a racing challenge beyond the R300 and with this they can stay with the caterham organisers who they know and trust and move to car that introduces a load of new racing characteristics that the 7 can't offer - ie aerodynamics / downforce / rear mounted engine

Its not a 7, but it is a great compliment to what they do and I wish them the best of success with it.

[RobM77]

I agree with both Klive and Bahnstormer. The 7 is already a fantastically versatile car. You can put luggage in one and drive to the south of France, or turn up at a track day and waste Porsches, plus when they get out of shape they're very playful and not scary at all. Caterham do this type of car extremely well already, and it has a massive following. What Klive says is very true - I myself progressed from racing a slow saloon to a Caterham Roadsport A, but very quickly craved a lot more power and speed, and like BahnS, a passenger ride in a Radical sold me on that sort of car instantly. For budget reasons I ended up in single seaters (I looked at Radicals and Sports 2000 first, but couldn't afford either), but for many people with more money, this Caterham/Lola will be a natural progression on from Caterhams. Caterhams are great fun, but for me there really is nothing quite like slick tyres and downforce with a mid mounted engine. It's a different sort of car completely, which is what's required if, like Caterham, you're already the guardian of an icon that does so many other things so well.

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 14th January 12:10

[Howard1650]

sfaulds said:

Sam_68 said:

James.S said:

Sam_68 said:

But is a move into the circuit racing market the right way for a company like Caterham to go, do you think?

They have a well established business selling road/trackday cars. Most race car manufacturers seem to aspire to a move in the opposite direction in order to grow and gain stability?

what absolute rubbish........

Would you care to expand on why you think that?

I can name you any number of race car manufacturers, from Lotus to McLaren, who have tried to make the move from race car to road car manufacture in order to stabilise their cash flow, but I can't think of many who have thought it sensible to try to move in the other direction.

The only good reason to expand a road car business into dedicated race cars is the halo effect of racing success, and it is difficult to see how Caterham will even derive much benefit from that: most of their customers are fairly clued-up and the car is clearly a Lola design. Hell, they can't even draw the kudos from building the cars, as no doubt most of the fabrication (as with the Seven) will be sub-contracted out (presumably back to Lola).

Lola seems to be making quite a nice business out of putting other people's badges on their cars, however, so at least one company has its head screwed on... unfortunately it didn't seem to help their last high-profile client to survive:

Is your head so far up your @rse that you've not even noticed that Caterham have been selling race cars for as long as they've been in business? The fact they have 2 sold out series in the current financial climate might (to an impartial observer of course) suggest they're quite good at it.

I'm really at a loss to see why you're such a predictably negative arseh0le on these forums. Did someone run over your pet rabbit with a Caterham as a child? Or did one of the bullies Dad's drive one? I really wonder what your like did before they had the internet to irritate.

just one point to add -

Caterham made kit cars
Lola make racing cars
McLaren sell advertising space

[Sam_68]

sfaulds said:

Is your head so far up your @rse that you've not even noticed that Caterham have been selling race cars for as long as they've been in business?

Howard1650 said:

just one point to add -

Caterham made kit cars
Lola make racing cars
McLaren sell advertising space

Of course, if I'm wrong, I'll look forward to you winning this year's Le Mans series with a Seven...

[RobM77]

Sam_68 said:

sfaulds said:

Is your head so far up your @rse that you've not even noticed that Caterham have been selling race cars for as long as they've been in business?

Howard1650 said:

just one point to add -

Caterham made kit cars
Lola make racing cars
McLaren sell advertising space

Of course, if I'm wrong, I'll look forward to you winning this year's Le Mans series with a Seven...

I think Stuart knows more than any of us that motorsport isn't all about shiny three foot high cars with fat slicks. There are thousands of Caterhams racing all over the world. The Lotus/Caterham 7 has been used equally in racing and on the road since its inception in 1957. Caterham have if anything strengthened this connection over the years, and the road cars have benefitted greatly from the racing programme. For those people expecting a road car, what exactly did they expect? The 7 is a success already; the CSR was probably more of a racing success than a road success, and anything else like the Elise would be treading on the 7s toes too much, and would probably need to sell in far too many numbers for Caterham to cope with to be profitable (even with the thousands of Elises running round everywhere, Lotus aren't making a profit! What hope have Caterham got?). Didn't Caterham's attempt at an Elise style car with Reynard emerge as the Strathcarron and then completely and utterly fail? Or is my memory wrong? The logical and sensible direction for Caterham to expand in is for a track/racing car. Caterham aren't exactly VW or Ford - I don't see it as out of character at all. For fun road and track day use a 7 is already perfect - if, like me, you have a desire to drive at 120mph round corners and drive on the absolute ragged edge all day with a big smile on your face, then you can't do this on the road - go racing instead (and stay on the right side of Sfaulds - he may be of some assistance! )

[Russ24v]

I seem to remember Caterhams were banned from Le Mans for being "too fast to race"..!

Edited by Russ24v on Friday 14th January 12:50

[ArosaMike]

Sam_68 said:

sfaulds said:

Is your head so far up your @rse that you've not even noticed that Caterham have been selling race cars for as long as they've been in business?

Howard1650 said:

just one point to add -

Caterham made kit cars
Lola make racing cars
McLaren sell advertising space

Of course, if I'm wrong, I'll look forward to you winning this year's Le Mans series with a Seven...

That doesn't even make sense! For someone who clearly spends most of their life on the internet, you're not very good at using google. Here...I'll do all the work for you:

http://www.caterham.co.uk/motorsport/

The majority of Caterhams business comes from Motorsport. If they didn't run 5 separate very successful race series in the UK alone (plus a few in France) they wouldn't be around to sell anyone a road car!

[Marwood79]

I've not read all the comments so this may have been said; my immediate issue with this is that it is just a generic (almost cliched) Lola racing shell. It could be badged by anyone of 20 manufacturers...

Not a bad thing in itself but hardly the stuff of dreams from Caterham.

[HundredthIdiot]

Marwood79 said:

I've not read all the comments so this may have been said; my immediate issue with this is that it is just a generic (almost cliched) Lola racing shell.

Yeah, but as any caterbore will tell you, a Caterham 7 is really a Lotus.

[Fittster]

Of the high end track-day toys I'd take the Chevron

http://www.chevronracing.com/

[mattmurdock]

Fittster said:

Of the high end track-day toys I'd take the Chevron

http://www.chevronracing.com/

Which is £55k + VAT (so only £5k cheaper than the SP/300.R) for a car that is slower and has lower specification parts.

Of course, plus sides are that it has a roof and it does look quite pretty.

I have a feeling that Caterham are going to be more interested in marketing the SP/300.R as a pure race car than a track day car - as others have said, the real purpose of the car is to catch those that move on to Radical/Juno/Sport2000 racing once they have achieved everything they want to achieve racing Sevens.