Discussion
RedLeicester said:
Is there something more afoot than the round of internet rumors? I'm just curious that as mentioned above, the press in general don't seem to have commented much if at all about Saab, and apart from an oblique reference in the Autocar first drive of the 9-4X, neither they nor the Daly-Wail-esque Autoexpress have passed comment on the situation at all.....???
Most of this stuff is available all over the net business sites like Bloomberg/Reuters etc if you are a sad b
d like me with no life. saabsunited.com isn't too bad as well, if you can get past the blind faith.Anyway latest news;
Another $30 million dollar loan from the GEMINI bank this time (whoever they are), will enable production to re-start on Thursday.
There will be a press conference tomorrow to announce a new partnership between Saab and the HawTai Motor Vehicle company of China. Be interesting to see what that brings, who knows Mueller and Antonov might have brought home the bacon.
They have just lost the licence to produce Hyundai Matrix and Santa Fes in China, so they need some new product quick. They have also had some issues over some of their styling and how similar it would appear to be to the Porsche Cayenne. A quick look on google images would suggest that they like the Mini and some Bentleys as well.
The Hypno-Toad said:
Another $30 million dollar loan from the GEMINI bank this time (whoever they are), will enable production to re-start on Thursday.
They're a hedge fund and quite a major one. They are already a small shareholder in Spyker/Saab. Presumably something or someone must be securing it. Saab are claming they've rasied about 60m Euro to restart production which they may well do but it doesn't yet answer who or what is going to provide the necessary cash to get them through the next couple of years.
Now confirmed that Hawtai Motor Group have bought a 30% stake in Saab for £134 million. This is now on the BBC website so finally someone in the UK is taking an interest apart from me.
Seems a very small amount for 1/3 of the company & certainly won't be enough to pay BMW for the old Mini architecture to start the 9-1. Can't help feeling that certainly at the moment we don't know the whole story on this one. But its good to know my friends who still work for Saab won't be looking for a new job just yet.
Seems a very small amount for 1/3 of the company & certainly won't be enough to pay BMW for the old Mini architecture to start the 9-1. Can't help feeling that certainly at the moment we don't know the whole story on this one. But its good to know my friends who still work for Saab won't be looking for a new job just yet.
The Hypno-Toad said:
This is now on the BBC website so finally someone in the UK is taking an interest apart from me.
Could it be Toad, you think you're the only one taking an interest is all. Sorry but your opinions are often more nauseating than the thought of Saab folding. Have some faith man. Saab will survive.Slade Alive said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
This is now on the BBC website so finally someone in the UK is taking an interest apart from me.
Could it be Toad, you think you're the only one taking an interest is all. Sorry but your opinions are often more nauseating than the thought of Saab folding. Have some faith man. Saab will survive.Here's what I base my faith on.
There are too many car companies/brands chasing too few customers, there will be casualties.
The new 9-5 isn't good enough.
The 9-3 isn't & never has been good enough.
The new 9-4 is already over-priced and there won't be a diesel option at launch in Europe.
That $150 million isn't enough to save the company but it does put Hawtai in a good position to strip the company if it does go breasts up.
All Mueller and Antonov really care about is Spyker and themselves.
I have friends, good friends, who still work for Saab like I did for nine years. They will lose their jobs if Saab go. They might lose their houses. They are either desperatly clinging to any hope or looking to get out as soon as possible. These people will be directly affected if Saab go and not just because they have fantasies about how great the old T16S was or how Saab can rise to compete with the Germans again. I loved Saab but what I really wish is that they could have gone with a degree of dignity instead of this long drawn out death rattle.
I've bookmarked this thread because in a years time if I'm wrong I'll apologise, I have no issue with that. I hope you've done this too, as I'll be expecting the same thing from you if I'm right.
Edited by The Hypno-Toad on Wednesday 4th May 06:02
) apologies if I'm wrong. 
VeeFour said:
Just as the old 9-5 definitely wasn't anything to do with the Chavalier...
Exactly.GM 900/93 1996-2002 = Mk3 Astra
93 2002- = Vectra B
95 1998-2004 = Vectra B
All with front suspension mods, but with essentially identical rear beams/ IRS.
Onwards it looks like Vectra C stuff, but I've not played with stuff that new yet.
All in your opinion of course.
9-3 might not be a Saab of old, but it ain't that bad a car despite half the world telling us it is when they only sold a few thousand of them. Funny how the rumour mill starts. You and your comments don't help do they.
9-4 is blighted by GM's control. Pretty much as Saabs fate hangs in the balance of GM's clauses. Frankly I prefer that Saab rid all diesel models. They've been pretty much plagued with problems. Better to sell what Saab sell well. Quirky cars only a few in relative terms to others will buy. Saab peaked at around 150.000 cars per year. I'm sure Muller is smarter than you when he realises he doesn't need anywhere near that number to profit. He needs time and firm foundations.
9-5 is a fabulous car. It will do well if only people would let it. Instead there's this ridiculous notion that Saab through GM years has made poor cars compared to what Saab once did on their own, so it's better for Saab to die with dignity rather than make another poor car. Who says it's a poor car? You Toad? Your Saab friends? The rest of the world? What rollocks. If it were so bad it wouldn't be where it is today. On sale.
Will I buy one to do my bit? Hell no. But I assure you I am doing plenty already to help and support Saab, as I have been doing for more years than I care to count. So no you won't be getting an apology if things go belly up for them. It's your best guess is all and I'm not interested in guesses, which is why your comments often nauseate me for making out like you know ever so much when really you only know what's posted on the bloody net. If it were anything different you'd be Muller's right hand man. Instead you're a fickle friend to Saab is all.
9-3 might not be a Saab of old, but it ain't that bad a car despite half the world telling us it is when they only sold a few thousand of them. Funny how the rumour mill starts. You and your comments don't help do they.
9-4 is blighted by GM's control. Pretty much as Saabs fate hangs in the balance of GM's clauses. Frankly I prefer that Saab rid all diesel models. They've been pretty much plagued with problems. Better to sell what Saab sell well. Quirky cars only a few in relative terms to others will buy. Saab peaked at around 150.000 cars per year. I'm sure Muller is smarter than you when he realises he doesn't need anywhere near that number to profit. He needs time and firm foundations.
9-5 is a fabulous car. It will do well if only people would let it. Instead there's this ridiculous notion that Saab through GM years has made poor cars compared to what Saab once did on their own, so it's better for Saab to die with dignity rather than make another poor car. Who says it's a poor car? You Toad? Your Saab friends? The rest of the world? What rollocks. If it were so bad it wouldn't be where it is today. On sale.
Will I buy one to do my bit? Hell no. But I assure you I am doing plenty already to help and support Saab, as I have been doing for more years than I care to count. So no you won't be getting an apology if things go belly up for them. It's your best guess is all and I'm not interested in guesses, which is why your comments often nauseate me for making out like you know ever so much when really you only know what's posted on the bloody net. If it were anything different you'd be Muller's right hand man. Instead you're a fickle friend to Saab is all.
Edited by Slade Alive on Thursday 5th May 02:38
Astra Dan said:
Exactly.
GM 900/93 1996-2002 = Mk3 Astra
93 2002- = Vectra B
95 1998-2004 = Vectra B
All with front suspension mods, but with essentially identical rear beams/ IRS.
Onwards it looks like Vectra C stuff, but I've not played with stuff that new yet.
You couldn't get much more wrong if you tried.GM 900/93 1996-2002 = Mk3 Astra
93 2002- = Vectra B
95 1998-2004 = Vectra B
All with front suspension mods, but with essentially identical rear beams/ IRS.
Onwards it looks like Vectra C stuff, but I've not played with stuff that new yet.
hora said:
Hyundia/kia are a real threat to toyota.
Bmw and merc have all slipped up in quality IMO.
Audi has picked up the above sales.
SAAB IMO really only ever competed between the gaps.
Yup....Bmw and merc have all slipped up in quality IMO.
Audi has picked up the above sales.
SAAB IMO really only ever competed between the gaps.
I've never got this idea that Saab is or should be compared with the MB/BMW/Audi segment of the market.... it's not where Saab sit. Volswagen as a competing brand perhaps, as orginally the Saab 92 was referred to as the Swedish peoples car, or Swedish Beetle.
I've also seen Saab sit in the 'alternative' middle market along with Citroen and Alfa Romeo for example.
Slade Alive said:
All in your opinion of course.
9-3 might not be a Saab of old, but it ain't that bad a car despite half the world telling us it is when they only sold a few thousand of them. Funny how the rumour mill starts. You and your comments don't help do they.
9-4 is blighted by GM's control. Pretty much as Saabs fate hangs in the balance of GM's clauses. Frankly I prefer that Saab rid all diesel models. They've been pretty much plagued with problems. Better to sell what Saab sell well. Quirky cars only a few in relative terms to others will buy. Saab peaked at around 150.000 cars per year. I'm sure Muller is smarter than you when he realises he doesn't need anywhere near that number to profit. He needs time and firm foundations.
9-5 is a fabulous car. It will do well if only people would let it. Instead there's this ridiculous notion that Saab through GM years has made poor cars compared to what Saab once did on their own, so it's better for Saab to die with dignity rather than make another poor car. Who says it's a poor car? You Toad? Your Saab friends? The rest of the world? What rollocks. If it were so bad it wouldn't be where it is today. On sale.
Will I buy one to do my bit? Hell no. But I assure you I am doing plenty already to help and support Saab, as I have been doing for more years than I care to count. So no you won't be getting an apology if things go belly up for them. It's your best guess is all and I'm not interested in guesses, which is why your comments often nauseate me for making out like you know ever so much when really you only know what's posted on the bloody net. If it were anything different you'd be Muller's right hand man. Instead you're a fickle friend to Saab is all.
Yep its my opinion. That's what most of the internet is for.9-3 might not be a Saab of old, but it ain't that bad a car despite half the world telling us it is when they only sold a few thousand of them. Funny how the rumour mill starts. You and your comments don't help do they.
9-4 is blighted by GM's control. Pretty much as Saabs fate hangs in the balance of GM's clauses. Frankly I prefer that Saab rid all diesel models. They've been pretty much plagued with problems. Better to sell what Saab sell well. Quirky cars only a few in relative terms to others will buy. Saab peaked at around 150.000 cars per year. I'm sure Muller is smarter than you when he realises he doesn't need anywhere near that number to profit. He needs time and firm foundations.
9-5 is a fabulous car. It will do well if only people would let it. Instead there's this ridiculous notion that Saab through GM years has made poor cars compared to what Saab once did on their own, so it's better for Saab to die with dignity rather than make another poor car. Who says it's a poor car? You Toad? Your Saab friends? The rest of the world? What rollocks. If it were so bad it wouldn't be where it is today. On sale.
Will I buy one to do my bit? Hell no. But I assure you I am doing plenty already to help and support Saab, as I have been doing for more years than I care to count. So no you won't be getting an apology if things go belly up for them. It's your best guess is all and I'm not interested in guesses, which is why your comments often nauseate me for making out like you know ever so much when really you only know what's posted on the bloody net. If it were anything different you'd be Muller's right hand man. Instead you're a fickle friend to Saab is all.
Edited by Slade Alive on Thursday 5th May 02:38
But what you don't actually seem to understand is that I don't want Saab to fail. It might look like it from my posts but as most people on here will attest I'm at a best a glass half empty kind of guy. But let me deal with some of your points.
1.) I'm guessing (there's that word again) that you are a Saab Specialist? If so maybe have a chat with some of your competitors about the current shape 9-3s reliabilty record. There is a guy on here from time to time who sells used Saabs and hopefully at some stage he may enter this debate. He can tell you horror stories with regard to build quality and reliability and he has been a used Saab Specialist for over 20 years. He has now stopped selling the saloons and only deals in the Convertible because the others just are not worth the grief.
2.) You're kidding, right? Please tell me you are kidding? Do you know anyone who is currently selling cars? I do. I have good friends who are salesman & sales managers from a wide variety of brands from luxury to volume & unless its a small city car or high performance sports car the only cars that are selling in large numbers are diesels and if you are talking about the type of car the 9-4 is aiming to beat, auto diesels. The general public are panicing about two things at the moment, RFL & fuel economy. If you're going to buy a Saab, walk into an Audi dealership and see what the waiting list is for a diesel A1 or A3 or A4 or A5 or TT or Q5 or even TT. Even my friends at Saab say that the only cars that they are selling are the extremely fuel and RFL efficent diesels that Saab have put on sale and you want them to stop production?
3.) Walk away from the computer. Go and read the independent reviews in the motoring press (which of course I with biased view, haven't written.). Hunt especially hard and find the Motorsport Magazine review by Andrew Frankel. Realise that with reviews like that it doesn't stand a chance. Then go and see if you can find one on the road which is not a Saab dealers demo. (Weird that a lot of people on this thread can't seem to find one either.) Finally have a look at the sales figures for the 5 Series, the Skoda Superb, the A6, the Mercedes E Class, the Alfa 159 against the 9-5. Then if you do just sell Saabs actually go and drive a 5 series or a new shape A6. Go on, do a mystery shop exercise. Then tell me the new 9-5 car is actually a better car. And don't just come back with reviews don't matter. Ask Vauxhall about what happened after Clarksons review of the Vectra. Ask Jaguar salesman what happened after his "its just a posh Mondeo," comments about the X-Type. But while you are there, ask some Nissan salesman what happened after his recent review of the Juke and they'll tell you nothing at all, its still selling large numbers. Why? Because its a car people feel excited about, those other cars aren't. To coin BMWs catchphrase, they have no joy about them.
The 9-5 is not a good enough and that isn't just my view, its the motoring press and the general publics view too.
And as for Muller knowing what he is doing? He knows that alright. He is feathering a very nice nest with a lot of taxpayers money for him and his mates, some which he will pump into his pathetic little would be sports car company which sells at the most 50 cars a year to German porn film directors and Dutch businessmen who like a smoke and a pancake.
Remember at the start of all of this he was running round saying "No, no, we don't need extra funding, its a glitch in our invoicing computer, we'll get it sorted quickly. That's why we haven't paid anyone," So he's a liar too. And that's Swedish newspaper websites if you want to go digging. I wouldn't trust the man with making the tea, let alone be his right hand man.
I have said it again and again, he is doing a Rover! And other people, not just on this thread, agree with me.
And there is one basic simple fact.
Saab need billions. Not just a few million here from a dodgy Russian or 150 from a Chinese company that make Cayenne copies. BILLIONS. To get that they need to sell cars. To sell cars they need a decent product range. That for whatever reason the public don't think they have, so in order to fund new cars they need more money. Because it takes a minimum of at least three years to design, build, test and start manufacture of a new model they need funding because they won't be selling enough of the current poor range to keep themselves in business. And that money needs to be in the order of 50 million a month. Oh and lets not forget the existing debt that they need to payoff too.
So in case you didn't get that, they need BILLIONS. And the new product better be something amazing as well, not just a new body on an old Mini.
If the money for one does arrive I will be delighted and probably dance a jig. I don't want to see anyone lose their living. What you need to do if your company does depend on Mr Muellers business skills, is get your head out of the sand and start making plans for if Saab go to Valhalla. I know I would be.
Edited by The Hypno-Toad on Thursday 5th May 10:19
Edited by The Hypno-Toad on Thursday 5th May 11:01
The Crack Fox said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
Pop down your local Saab showroom today and order a new 9-5. With your own money.
When was the last time anyone did that ? I can see why Saab must have got a mit miffed over the "it's a Vectra" jibes. After all, Audi gets away with an A3 which was far more of a SEAT/VW than any Saab has ever been a Vauxhall and for years the A4 was basically a Passat.
To a certain extent Saab did things the wrong way round, too much of what you couldn't see was actually quite unique to Saab (even down to engine management on the petrols) and the suspension is more different than you'd think but too much of what you see, touch and interact with feels like cheap GM stuff even if it may be a different shape.
Legend has it that the start of the Saab/GM fall out was that GM didn't think the 93 shared enough with the Vectra and had too many expensive unique parts which kind of demonstrates how much GM knows about building and selling semi-premium cars.
To a certain extent Saab did things the wrong way round, too much of what you couldn't see was actually quite unique to Saab (even down to engine management on the petrols) and the suspension is more different than you'd think but too much of what you see, touch and interact with feels like cheap GM stuff even if it may be a different shape.
Legend has it that the start of the Saab/GM fall out was that GM didn't think the 93 shared enough with the Vectra and had too many expensive unique parts which kind of demonstrates how much GM knows about building and selling semi-premium cars.
The Hypno-Toad said:
Yep its my opinion. That's what most of the internet is for.
But what you don't actually seem to understand is that I don't want Saab to fail. It might look like it from my posts but as most people on here will attest I'm at a best a glass half empty kind of guy. But let me deal with some of your points.
1.) I'm guessing (there's that word again) that you are a Saab Specialist? If so maybe have a chat with some of your competitors about the current shape 9-3s reliabilty record. There is a guy on here from time to time who sells used Saabs and hopefully at some stage he may enter this debate. He can tell you horror stories with regard to build quality and reliability and he has been a used Saab Specialist for over 20 years. He has now stopped selling the saloons and only deals in the Convertible because the others just are not worth the grief.
2.) You're kidding, right? Please tell me you are kidding? Do you know anyone who is currently selling cars? I do. I have good friends who are salesman & sales managers from a wide variety of brands from luxury to volume & unless its a small city car or high performance sports car the only cars that are selling in large numbers are diesels and if you are talking about the type of car the 9-4 is aiming to beat, auto diesels. The general public are panicing about two things at the moment, RFL & fuel economy. If you're going to buy a Saab, walk into an Audi dealership and see what the waiting list is for a diesel A1 or A3 or A4 or A5 or TT or Q5 or even TT. Even my friends at Saab say that the only cars that they are selling are the extremely fuel and RFL efficent diesels that Saab have put on sale and you want them to stop production?
3.) Walk away from the computer. Go and read the independent reviews in the motoring press (which of course I with biased view, haven't written.). Hunt especially hard and find the Motorsport Magazine review by Andrew Frankel. Realise that with reviews like that it doesn't stand a chance. Then go and see if you can find one on the road which is not a Saab dealers demo. (Weird that a lot of people on this thread can't seem to find one either.) Finally have a look at the sales figures for the 5 Series, the Skoda Superb, the A6, the Mercedes E Class, the Alfa 159 against the 9-5. Then if you do just sell Saabs actually go and drive a 5 series or a new shape A6. Go on, do a mystery shop exercise. Then tell me the new 9-5 car is actually a better car. And don't just come back with reviews don't matter. Ask Vauxhall about what happened after Clarksons review of the Vectra. Ask Jaguar salesman what happened after his "its just a posh Mondeo," comments about the X-Type. But while you are there, ask some Nissan salesman what happened after his recent review of the Juke and they'll tell you nothing at all, its still selling large numbers. Why? Because its a car people feel excited about, those other cars aren't. To coin BMWs catchphrase, they have no joy about them.
The 9-5 is not a good enough and that isn't just my view, its the motoring press and the general publics view too.
And as for Muller doing what he is doing? He knows that alright. He is feathering a very nice nest with a lot of taxpayers money for him and his mates, some which he will pump into his pathetic little would be sports car company which sells at the most 50 cars a year to German porn film directors and Dutch businessmen who like a smoke and a pancake.
Remember at the start of all of this he was running round saying "No, no, we don't need extra funding, its a glitch in our invoicing computer, we'll get it sorted quickly. That's why we haven't paid anyone," So he's a liar too. And that's Swedish newspaper websites if you want to go digging. I wouldn't trust the man with making the tea, let alone be his right hand man.
I have said it again and again, he is doing a Rover! And other people, not just on this thread, agree with me.
And there is one basic simple fact.
Saab need billions. Not just a few million here from a dodgy Russian or 150 from a Chinese company that make Cayenne copies. BILLIONS. To get that they need to sell cars. To sell cars they need a decent product range. That for whatever reason the public don't think they have, so in order to fund new cars they need more money. Because it takes a minimum of at least three years to design, build, test and start manufacture of a new model they need funding because they won't be selling enough of the current poor range to keep themselves in business. And that money needs to be in the order of 50 million a month. Oh and lets not forget the existing debt that they need to payoff too.
So in case you didn't get that, they need BILLIONS. And the new product better be something amazing as well, not just a new body on an old Mini.
If the money for one does arrive I will be delighted and probably dance a jig. I don't want to see anyone lose their living. What you need to do if your company does depend on Mr Muellers business skills, is get your head out of the sand and start making plans for if Saab go to Valhalla. I know I would be.
But what you don't actually seem to understand is that I don't want Saab to fail. It might look like it from my posts but as most people on here will attest I'm at a best a glass half empty kind of guy. But let me deal with some of your points.
1.) I'm guessing (there's that word again) that you are a Saab Specialist? If so maybe have a chat with some of your competitors about the current shape 9-3s reliabilty record. There is a guy on here from time to time who sells used Saabs and hopefully at some stage he may enter this debate. He can tell you horror stories with regard to build quality and reliability and he has been a used Saab Specialist for over 20 years. He has now stopped selling the saloons and only deals in the Convertible because the others just are not worth the grief.
2.) You're kidding, right? Please tell me you are kidding? Do you know anyone who is currently selling cars? I do. I have good friends who are salesman & sales managers from a wide variety of brands from luxury to volume & unless its a small city car or high performance sports car the only cars that are selling in large numbers are diesels and if you are talking about the type of car the 9-4 is aiming to beat, auto diesels. The general public are panicing about two things at the moment, RFL & fuel economy. If you're going to buy a Saab, walk into an Audi dealership and see what the waiting list is for a diesel A1 or A3 or A4 or A5 or TT or Q5 or even TT. Even my friends at Saab say that the only cars that they are selling are the extremely fuel and RFL efficent diesels that Saab have put on sale and you want them to stop production?
3.) Walk away from the computer. Go and read the independent reviews in the motoring press (which of course I with biased view, haven't written.). Hunt especially hard and find the Motorsport Magazine review by Andrew Frankel. Realise that with reviews like that it doesn't stand a chance. Then go and see if you can find one on the road which is not a Saab dealers demo. (Weird that a lot of people on this thread can't seem to find one either.) Finally have a look at the sales figures for the 5 Series, the Skoda Superb, the A6, the Mercedes E Class, the Alfa 159 against the 9-5. Then if you do just sell Saabs actually go and drive a 5 series or a new shape A6. Go on, do a mystery shop exercise. Then tell me the new 9-5 car is actually a better car. And don't just come back with reviews don't matter. Ask Vauxhall about what happened after Clarksons review of the Vectra. Ask Jaguar salesman what happened after his "its just a posh Mondeo," comments about the X-Type. But while you are there, ask some Nissan salesman what happened after his recent review of the Juke and they'll tell you nothing at all, its still selling large numbers. Why? Because its a car people feel excited about, those other cars aren't. To coin BMWs catchphrase, they have no joy about them.
The 9-5 is not a good enough and that isn't just my view, its the motoring press and the general publics view too.
And as for Muller doing what he is doing? He knows that alright. He is feathering a very nice nest with a lot of taxpayers money for him and his mates, some which he will pump into his pathetic little would be sports car company which sells at the most 50 cars a year to German porn film directors and Dutch businessmen who like a smoke and a pancake.
Remember at the start of all of this he was running round saying "No, no, we don't need extra funding, its a glitch in our invoicing computer, we'll get it sorted quickly. That's why we haven't paid anyone," So he's a liar too. And that's Swedish newspaper websites if you want to go digging. I wouldn't trust the man with making the tea, let alone be his right hand man.
I have said it again and again, he is doing a Rover! And other people, not just on this thread, agree with me.
And there is one basic simple fact.
Saab need billions. Not just a few million here from a dodgy Russian or 150 from a Chinese company that make Cayenne copies. BILLIONS. To get that they need to sell cars. To sell cars they need a decent product range. That for whatever reason the public don't think they have, so in order to fund new cars they need more money. Because it takes a minimum of at least three years to design, build, test and start manufacture of a new model they need funding because they won't be selling enough of the current poor range to keep themselves in business. And that money needs to be in the order of 50 million a month. Oh and lets not forget the existing debt that they need to payoff too.
So in case you didn't get that, they need BILLIONS. And the new product better be something amazing as well, not just a new body on an old Mini.
If the money for one does arrive I will be delighted and probably dance a jig. I don't want to see anyone lose their living. What you need to do if your company does depend on Mr Muellers business skills, is get your head out of the sand and start making plans for if Saab go to Valhalla. I know I would be.
Edited by The Hypno-Toad on Thursday 5th May 10:19
Fact!
Saab were selling in the UK relatively recently - in 2007 they shifted 10,000 9-3's in the UK.
However, I would be in some agreement with the poster above regarding selling 9-3's. I won't sell them either because the last one I sold (a 56-plate 1.9 diesel) caused me more grief than the previous 50 cars put together. I won't condem a car on one example but there is no logical reason to risk another when I can sell some one a S60 D5 instead which they will do 100k in without problem and then come back and buy another.
However, I would be in some agreement with the poster above regarding selling 9-3's. I won't sell them either because the last one I sold (a 56-plate 1.9 diesel) caused me more grief than the previous 50 cars put together. I won't condem a car on one example but there is no logical reason to risk another when I can sell some one a S60 D5 instead which they will do 100k in without problem and then come back and buy another.
confused_buyer said:
but too much of what you see, touch and interact with feels like cheap GM stuff even if it may be a different shape.
But sadly, that was a corner that Saab were forced down by being integrated into the piss-poor quality GM supply chain.
confused_buyer said:
Legend has it that the start of the Saab/GM fall out was that GM didn't think the 93 shared enough with the Vectra and had too many expensive unique parts which kind of demonstrates how much GM knows about building and selling semi-premium cars.
It's true. GM were livid when they found-out about Saab re-engineering the rear axle on the 9-3 to the Re-Axs positive steer set-up...... which meant that the 9-3 could only be built at Trollhatten and not on any other GM Epsilon production line. That why the 'new' 9-5 (and the future next gen 9-3) were scheduled to be built by Opel in Germany. The 'new' 9-5 launch was delayed when GM sold Saab, because Trollhatten had to be set up for the new 9-5, as well as the 9-3 convertible which had been made by Styr in Austria.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff