VW in trouble over alleged US emission test manipulations
Discussion
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hstewie said:
hstewie said:ORD said:
I find it extremely hard to feel sorry for people who will have a slightly less powerful nasty derv ecobox but have still driven a grossly polluting car and will never pay appropriate tax in that regard.
If people were desperate for the fix because they don't want to poison the local environment, I might feel a bit more sympathy. At the moment, it seems like a lot of whining from people who have still benefitted hugely from the NEDC and the silly fuel tax and VED policies. If I had one of these cars, my first priority would be to stop pumping out huge amounts of NO2, but that seems to be the last of anyone's worries.
Tbh I think you're coming across as a bit silly. You drive a Porsche. The stuff that comes out the back of it isn't pleasant (half an hour in a confined space would prove that).If people were desperate for the fix because they don't want to poison the local environment, I might feel a bit more sympathy. At the moment, it seems like a lot of whining from people who have still benefitted hugely from the NEDC and the silly fuel tax and VED policies. If I had one of these cars, my first priority would be to stop pumping out huge amounts of NO2, but that seems to be the last of anyone's worries.
Lecturing other people on pollution when you've deliberately chosen to drive a vehicle that pollutes, albeit in a different way, way more than you possibly need to, is simply rank hypocrisy.
You diesel lovers really are terrible at thinking. It's not bloody binary! The choice isn't between being either an eco warrior or simply not giving a damn. Most people, including me, are somewhere on the spectrum. But I am a million miles from being prepared to drive a diesel car in a city and pump NO2 and black carbon into people's lungs.
Another point - I pay enormous amounts in VED and petrol tax. Easily enough to offset all the CO2. Contrast miserly dervheads who pollute london to hell and barely pay any tax for doing so.
ORD said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:ORD said:
I find it extremely hard to feel sorry for people who will have a slightly less powerful nasty derv ecobox but have still driven a grossly polluting car and will never pay appropriate tax in that regard.
If people were desperate for the fix because they don't want to poison the local environment, I might feel a bit more sympathy. At the moment, it seems like a lot of whining from people who have still benefitted hugely from the NEDC and the silly fuel tax and VED policies. If I had one of these cars, my first priority would be to stop pumping out huge amounts of NO2, but that seems to be the last of anyone's worries.
Tbh I think you're coming across as a bit silly. You drive a Porsche. The stuff that comes out the back of it isn't pleasant (half an hour in a confined space would prove that).If people were desperate for the fix because they don't want to poison the local environment, I might feel a bit more sympathy. At the moment, it seems like a lot of whining from people who have still benefitted hugely from the NEDC and the silly fuel tax and VED policies. If I had one of these cars, my first priority would be to stop pumping out huge amounts of NO2, but that seems to be the last of anyone's worries.
Lecturing other people on pollution when you've deliberately chosen to drive a vehicle that pollutes, albeit in a different way, way more than you possibly need to, is simply rank hypocrisy.
You diesel lovers really are terrible at thinking. It's not bloody binary! The choice isn't between being either an eco warrior or simply not giving a damn. Most people, including me, are somewhere on the spectrum. But I am a million miles from being prepared to drive a diesel car in a city and pump NO2 and black carbon into people's lungs.
Another point - I pay enormous amounts in VED and petrol tax. Easily enough to offset all the CO2. Contrast miserly dervheads who pollute london to hell and barely pay any tax for doing so.
Love to see you getting so worked up, your life in London must be hellish thanks to us diesel users
Maybe if you didn't come across as being so pompous and patronising you would get a more sympathetic response, but those that think they know it all and can only accept one point of view usually end up getting abusive,as you are now.
That's when you start to lose credibility and with it the points you are trying to put over
It's your choice of car that results in you paying emormous amounts of VED and petrol tax. There is a very easy way of reducing it.
Edited by Monkeylegend on Wednesday 14th October 19:17
My daughters have Polo Bluemotion 1.2 Diesels ... they have both received letters in the last couple of days --- so much for this being limited to 1.9 and 2.0 litre engines post 2009.
Both of them have also had huge problems with handbrakes sticking on --- clutches going at 60k miles due to dragging the handbrake off, exhaust gas recycling valve replacements and dodgy exhaust sensors.
Intriguingly both were told by their respective dealers that they (the dealers) had not seen these problems before.
VW are clearly very experienced liars ....
Both of them have also had huge problems with handbrakes sticking on --- clutches going at 60k miles due to dragging the handbrake off, exhaust gas recycling valve replacements and dodgy exhaust sensors.
Intriguingly both were told by their respective dealers that they (the dealers) had not seen these problems before.
VW are clearly very experienced liars ....
Due to the sudden death of a very close relative, I was asked, as the only member of the family perceived to know anything about cars, if I would sell his 18 month old Fiesta Ecoboost. Rather than expect to sell it quickly with a private ad, I chose to use one of the we buy your car outfits. They offered a decent price so I took it down there today to do the deal. I jokingly said that maybe it was a good job he hadn't bought a VW diesel and was told point blank that they wouldn't touch it. Might be worth some of the owners putting their registration number into one of the sites and see what result they get.
Gilbertd said:
Due to the sudden death of a very close relative, I was asked, as the only member of the family perceived to know anything about cars, if I would sell his 18 month old Fiesta Ecoboost. Rather than expect to sell it quickly with a private ad, I chose to use one of the we buy your car outfits. They offered a decent price so I took it down there today to do the deal. I jokingly said that maybe it was a good job he hadn't bought a VW diesel and was told point blank that they wouldn't touch it. Might be worth some of the owners putting their registration number into one of the sites and see what result they get.
I just did from a Golf for sale on this siteFor sake by a main dealer at 15k
WBAC offered 12.5k for it
Seemed pretty fair really
ORD said:
A Euro V petrol engine, you mean? That does about 8k miles a year? Yeah - an ecological disaster!
You diesel lovers really are terrible at thinking. It's not bloody binary! The choice isn't between being either an eco warrior or simply not giving a damn. Most people, including me, are somewhere on the spectrum. But I am a million miles from being prepared to drive a diesel car in a city and pump NO2 and black carbon into people's lungs.
Another point - I pay enormous amounts in VED and petrol tax. Easily enough to offset all the CO2. Contrast miserly dervheads who pollute london to hell and barely pay any tax for doing so.
A lot of emotive language. Hasn't nox been reduced over the years, not increased? Think I read nox has gone down 40%, but hasn't met arbitrary targets.You diesel lovers really are terrible at thinking. It's not bloody binary! The choice isn't between being either an eco warrior or simply not giving a damn. Most people, including me, are somewhere on the spectrum. But I am a million miles from being prepared to drive a diesel car in a city and pump NO2 and black carbon into people's lungs.
Another point - I pay enormous amounts in VED and petrol tax. Easily enough to offset all the CO2. Contrast miserly dervheads who pollute london to hell and barely pay any tax for doing so.
Anyway, can you show what contribution diesel cars are making?
heebeegeetee said:
A lot of emotive language. Hasn't nox been reduced over the years, not increased? Think I read nox has gone down 40%, but hasn't met arbitrary targets.
Anyway, can you show what contribution diesel cars are making?
'Arbitrary' as in 'calculated to reduce damaging local air pollution' ?Anyway, can you show what contribution diesel cars are making?
I think I read that diesel vehicles account for 40% of the NOx in London. TFL has lots of info on this stuff, and it's mostly quite depressing.
heebeegeetee said:
A lot of emotive language. Hasn't nox been reduced over the years, not increased? Think I read nox has gone down 40%, but hasn't met arbitrary targets.
Anyway, can you show what contribution diesel cars are making?
Haven't looked at this thread for a while but can't believe you are STILL going on about this. Lol.Anyway, can you show what contribution diesel cars are making?
heebeegeetee said:
A lot of emotive language. Hasn't nox been reduced over the years, not increased? Think I read nox has gone down 40%, but hasn't met arbitrary targets.
As far as I can find see the average NOx outputs of individual diesel engines seems to have generally fallen; I'm not sure where 40% comes from but it's believable. However, in the same period the number of diesels on the road has risen dramatically, so I rather suspect the total NOx output of internal combustion engines in British cities as a whole has been rising. Possibly quite significantly but certainly not orders of magnitude. kambites said:
heebeegeetee said:
A lot of emotive language. Hasn't nox been reduced over the years, not increased? Think I read nox has gone down 40%, but hasn't met arbitrary targets.
As far as I can find see the average NOx outputs of individual diesel engines seems to have generally fallen; I'm not sure where 40% comes from but it's believable. However, in the same period the number of diesels on the road has risen dramatically, so I rather suspect the total NOx output of internal combustion engines in British cities as a whole has been rising. Possibly quite significantly but certainly not orders of magnitude. As much as I moan on about diesel cars in London (and I know it is dull and annoying - so I apologise), I think the real scandal is that we have such horribly polluting buses and taxis. The amount of particulates and NOx coming out of the those things is a disgrace. TFL clobbers everyone for driving any kind of car in London yet itself licences and regulates the most horrendously polluting vehicles on the roads.
ORD said:
You diesel lovers really are terrible at thinking. It's not bloody binary! The choice isn't between being either an eco warrior or simply not giving a damn. Most people, including me, are somewhere on the spectrum.
You chose to buy a car that pollutes way way more than is necessary. You knew this when you bought it, and you are reminded each time you pay VED. Diesel owners were fooled into buying cars they thought were cleaner than they really are.
And you are one of the most vocal in criticising the diesel owners - does that not seem more than a little bit off to you?
By the way, paying more in VED does not offset your pollution as you appear to believe.
_dobbo_ said:
You chose to buy a car that pollutes way way more than is necessary. You knew this when you bought it, and you are reminded each time you pay VED.
Diesel owners were fooled into buying cars they thought were cleaner than they really are.
And you are one of the most vocal in criticising the diesel owners - does that not seem more than a little bit off to you?
By the way, paying more in VED does not offset your pollution as you appear to believe.
Actually, Porsches are very clean indeed within their class Diesel owners were fooled into buying cars they thought were cleaner than they really are.
And you are one of the most vocal in criticising the diesel owners - does that not seem more than a little bit off to you?
By the way, paying more in VED does not offset your pollution as you appear to believe.
I doubt many diesel drivers with an interest in cars believed the idea that diesel cars were very clean.
ORD said:
Actually, Porsches are very clean indeed within their class
I doubt many diesel drivers with an interest in cars believed the idea that diesel cars were very clean.
Clean within their class, sure, but not actually clean when compared to countless other cars you could have bought. So it's OK to pollute more if you wanted a Porsche? For what it's worth, it is totally OK to want, and to buy a Porsche. The problem comes when you lecture other people about polluting.I doubt many diesel drivers with an interest in cars believed the idea that diesel cars were very clean.
And as for doubting what diesel owners motivations were, well of course you doubt, because it suits your narrative. You've shifted the blame onto the owners, and you are sticking with it.
deaglecat said:
I got a letter today from VW. ... my car is affected.
Nowhere at all does it say "Sorry... we messed up" or acknowledge any wrong doing.
That lack of basic contrition compounds VW's shoddy business practices. These idiots deserve to be sued into bankruptcy.
...but not necessarily the thousands of people employed by and through themNowhere at all does it say "Sorry... we messed up" or acknowledge any wrong doing.
That lack of basic contrition compounds VW's shoddy business practices. These idiots deserve to be sued into bankruptcy.
_dobbo_ said:
ORD said:
Actually, Porsches are very clean indeed within their class
I doubt many diesel drivers with an interest in cars believed the idea that diesel cars were very clean.
Clean within their class, sure, but not actually clean when compared to countless other cars you could have bought. So it's OK to pollute more if you wanted a Porsche? For what it's worth, it is totally OK to want, and to buy a Porsche. The problem comes when you lecture other people about polluting.I doubt many diesel drivers with an interest in cars believed the idea that diesel cars were very clean.
And as for doubting what diesel owners motivations were, well of course you doubt, because it suits your narrative. You've shifted the blame onto the owners, and you are sticking with it.
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