Do you need anything more than a 320d?
Discussion
ddom said:
RobM77 said:
I think he's just fishing for a reaction or making a joke. Whatever "ladder" you're looking at (cost, performance, space, safety, economy, reliability, handling), there are loads of cars "below" a 320d. Last time I checked the base spec Panda was £10k, only did 40mpg, got to 60 in 13 seconds and had a zero NCAP rating (I had to look that up, but apparently so!). If he is making a joke, then I agree with him, because there's no such thing as a "ladder" for anything. There are plenty of people and uses for a car that suit a Panda better than a £90k Merc or Porsche.
I saw one of those' non GT Porsche's' the other say, I mean, the shame of it! I can't imagine what my associates would say, let alone the general public, if I didn't have at least the RS. It's like you've actually robbed the poor house boxes and come up short.....Unthinkable
cerb4.5lee said:
Yes and I've always stuck the boot in hard when it comes to the 20d engine. If it was genuinely unbearable I don't think that BMW would have sold millions of them like they have in fairness.
A 4 cylinder diesel engine for me is an engine for people who aren't interested in engines, and it is just a cost effective tool to do a job. An absolutely soulless engine for sure.
I’d agree with that. A 4 cylinder diesel engine for me is an engine for people who aren't interested in engines, and it is just a cost effective tool to do a job. An absolutely soulless engine for sure.
I am interested in cars, engines etc but in this case I needed a tool to do a job. My 420d replaced my 645 and to some extent my pickup. It’s my first and likely last 4 cylinder BMW.
It’s not that the 2.0 diesel isn’t capable, it’s just very bland indeed. It’s the only car I’ve had that’s made me think electric might be a good option as at least it would be quiet.
Part of reasoning for the 420 was that I also own 4 motorbikes, car for work and bikes for fun.
Speed addicted said:
It’s my first and likely last 4 cylinder BMW.
I felt exactly the same about my 520d. 
It was also my first experience of a 4 cylinder BMW too. Most of the time I just wanted to take a hammer to the engine because I disliked it so much! Not helped by the fact that the 330d I had previously returned pretty much the same mpg.
So I ended up with a slow 4 cylinder diesel engine...that didn't make a very nice noise, plus it wasn't even economical either!
Never again.
cerb4.5lee said:
Speed addicted said:
It’s my first and likely last 4 cylinder BMW.
I felt exactly the same about my 520d. It was also my first experience of a 4 cylinder BMW too. Most of the time I just wanted to take a hammer to the engine because I disliked it so much! Not helped by the fact that the 330d I had previously returned pretty much the same mpg.
So I ended up with a slow 4 cylinder diesel engine...that didn't make a very nice noise, plus it wasn't even economical either!
Never again.
RobM77 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Speed addicted said:
It’s my first and likely last 4 cylinder BMW.
I felt exactly the same about my 520d. It was also my first experience of a 4 cylinder BMW too. Most of the time I just wanted to take a hammer to the engine because I disliked it so much! Not helped by the fact that the 330d I had previously returned pretty much the same mpg.
So I ended up with a slow 4 cylinder diesel engine...that didn't make a very nice noise, plus it wasn't even economical either!
Never again.
My 420d is the Xdrive auto, I’m getting around 39mpg on my 30mile daily commute (or I was anyway), this site
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/bmw/4-series-...
suggests that’s slightly below what others are getting, it’s a bit of town driving with a 70mph dual carriageway. On longer runs it’s far better.
cerb4.5lee said:
RobM77 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Speed addicted said:
It’s my first and likely last 4 cylinder BMW.
I felt exactly the same about my 520d. It was also my first experience of a 4 cylinder BMW too. Most of the time I just wanted to take a hammer to the engine because I disliked it so much! Not helped by the fact that the 330d I had previously returned pretty much the same mpg.
So I ended up with a slow 4 cylinder diesel engine...that didn't make a very nice noise, plus it wasn't even economical either!
Never again.
RobM77 said:
Ah, I’d forgotten you had a 5. Yes, that’s fair enough; it’s a lot more car than a 3. I have a 530d now and on my commute, which is 35 minutes of winding B roads and 15 minutes of dual carriageway, it averages 45-46. The lowest I’ve seen is since lockdown, when all I’m doing is 15 miles to my son’s nursery and back on C roads, for which it’s getting 37mpg. The best is when we go away on holiday when I can get over 50mpg on motorways. Nothing amazing, but for a 1800kg car that does 0-60 under 6 seconds, I reckon it’s pretty good. I haven’t towed with it yet!
I think 50MPG on the motorway from a large saloon capable of hitting 60 MPH in under 6 seconds is really rather good going!!In fact, maybe the title of the OP needs amending to "Do you need anything more than a 530d".........
greenarrow said:
I think 50MPG on the motorway from a large saloon capable of hitting 60 MPH in under 6 seconds is really rather good going!!
In fact, maybe the title of the OP needs amending to "Do you need anything more than a 530d".........
Add on Estate and the snip if you’ve already got 2 kids in which case you don’t need anything more than a 3 bedroom house with 1 off road parking space. In fact, maybe the title of the OP needs amending to "Do you need anything more than a 530d".........
You also don’t need to buy any food from M&S
greenarrow said:
RobM77 said:
Ah, I’d forgotten you had a 5. Yes, that’s fair enough; it’s a lot more car than a 3. I have a 530d now and on my commute, which is 35 minutes of winding B roads and 15 minutes of dual carriageway, it averages 45-46. The lowest I’ve seen is since lockdown, when all I’m doing is 15 miles to my son’s nursery and back on C roads, for which it’s getting 37mpg. The best is when we go away on holiday when I can get over 50mpg on motorways. Nothing amazing, but for a 1800kg car that does 0-60 under 6 seconds, I reckon it’s pretty good. I haven’t towed with it yet!
I think 50MPG on the motorway from a large saloon capable of hitting 60 MPH in under 6 seconds is really rather good going!!In fact, maybe the title of the OP needs amending to "Do you need anything more than a 530d".........
I mean I don't really need an engine that makes me smile every time I start it up - but considering how much more pleasurable it makes day to day driving it's definitely something I want.
So let's compromise and go for a 535i
greenarrow said:
RobM77 said:
Ah, I’d forgotten you had a 5. Yes, that’s fair enough; it’s a lot more car than a 3. I have a 530d now and on my commute, which is 35 minutes of winding B roads and 15 minutes of dual carriageway, it averages 45-46. The lowest I’ve seen is since lockdown, when all I’m doing is 15 miles to my son’s nursery and back on C roads, for which it’s getting 37mpg. The best is when we go away on holiday when I can get over 50mpg on motorways. Nothing amazing, but for a 1800kg car that does 0-60 under 6 seconds, I reckon it’s pretty good. I haven’t towed with it yet!
I think 50MPG on the motorway from a large saloon capable of hitting 60 MPH in under 6 seconds is really rather good going!!In fact, maybe the title of the OP needs amending to "Do you need anything more than a 530d".........
ETA: My 2016 530d is rear drive, but as electro says above, BMW have now spoilt things and only offer the 530d with 4WD. Yuk.
RobM77 said:
I've owned both and I'd hesitate on that one. The 530d is a truly great car, but it only became necessary for me when we had kids, for various reasons, such as a change of racing car to something more modest that weighed twice as much. If you're not towing heavy trailers, going on camping holidays, or commuting for 2-3 hours a day, then the 320d is the better car imho. The 3 comes with a manual gearbox, it's much lighter and handles better, and is far cheaper on fuel.
ETA: My 2016 530d is rear drive, but as electro says above, BMW have now spoilt things and only offer the 530d with 4WD. Yuk.
There are two absolute essentials on my car list (beyond the basics of needing 4 seats, reasonable boot, tow bar etc).ETA: My 2016 530d is rear drive, but as electro says above, BMW have now spoilt things and only offer the 530d with 4WD. Yuk.
1) Petrol (and a decent one).
2) Manual
RWD would be nice but is not absolutely essential, it depends on how the car drives.
This means however that just about everything modern is off my shopping list, Audi, BMW, Ford, Mercedes etc, none of them do a "group D" size with a decent petrol engine and a manual gearbox.
Fastdruid said:
RobM77 said:
I've owned both and I'd hesitate on that one. The 530d is a truly great car, but it only became necessary for me when we had kids, for various reasons, such as a change of racing car to something more modest that weighed twice as much. If you're not towing heavy trailers, going on camping holidays, or commuting for 2-3 hours a day, then the 320d is the better car imho. The 3 comes with a manual gearbox, it's much lighter and handles better, and is far cheaper on fuel.
ETA: My 2016 530d is rear drive, but as electro says above, BMW have now spoilt things and only offer the 530d with 4WD. Yuk.
There are two absolute essentials on my car list (beyond the basics of needing 4 seats, reasonable boot, tow bar etc).ETA: My 2016 530d is rear drive, but as electro says above, BMW have now spoilt things and only offer the 530d with 4WD. Yuk.
1) Petrol (and a decent one).
2) Manual
RWD would be nice but is not absolutely essential, it depends on how the car drives.
This means however that just about everything modern is off my shopping list, Audi, BMW, Ford, Mercedes etc, none of them do a "group D" size with a decent petrol engine and a manual gearbox.
And as above, the 530d is only available with an auto box now, which is indeed one reason I'd hesitate to nominate it on a thread such as this. It's a very large luxury car and not everyone wants that. Manual boxes were a rare option early in the F10's life and in previous generations, but I think I'm right that since the F10 LCI they've been auto only. The same is true for the competition from Jaguar, Lexus, and Mercedes.I have a strong preference for manual, but I must admit that the ZF8 box is so good that whilst I'd still rather have a manual, I'm perfectly happy with it. The key thing for me is that it has paddles, which I couldn't be without, offering a full manual mode and the software works very well, rather than being obstructive. It's certainly the best auto I've driven. So the only remaining disadvantage really is the lack of involvement pushing a pedal and moving a gearstick, plus the weight.
I also have a strong preference for petrol, but I have a stronger preference for throttle response, and since drive by wire throttle came in I've yet to drive a petrol engine in a fully homologated road car that I can tolerate in this regard. My wife's car is a great example: it has a VTEC petrol engine that revs to over 8k, which is heavenly, but it has a lag at the top of the pedal, so for me is ultimately too frustrating to drive too often. I've tried to own two such cars myself: an E46 330ci and a Z4C - both sold in under a year and under 10k miles because I couldn't tolerate the lack of throttle response.
RobM77 said:
And as above, the 530d is only available with an auto box now, which is indeed one reason I'd hesitate to nominate it on a thread such as this. It's a very large luxury car and not everyone wants that. Manual boxes were a rare option early in the F10's life and in previous generations, but I think I'm right that since the F10 LCI they've been auto only. The same is true for the competition from Jaguar, Lexus, and Mercedes.I have a strong preference for manual, but I must admit that the ZF8 box is so good that whilst I'd still rather have a manual, I'm perfectly happy with it. The key thing for me is that it has paddles, which I couldn't be without, offering a full manual mode and the software works very well, rather than being obstructive. It's certainly the best auto I've driven. So the only remaining disadvantage really is the lack of involvement pushing a pedal and moving a gearstick, plus the weight.
I also have a strong preference for petrol, but I have a stronger preference for throttle response, and since drive by wire throttle came in I've yet to drive a petrol engine in a fully homologated road car that I can tolerate in this regard. My wife's car is a great example: it has a VTEC petrol engine that revs to over 8k, which is heavenly, but it has a lag at the top of the pedal, so for me is ultimately too frustrating to drive too often. I've tried to own two such cars myself: an E46 330ci and a Z4C - both sold in under a year and under 10k miles because I couldn't tolerate the lack of throttle response.
The ZF 8 speed is a lovely thing so it doesn’t feel like I’m loosing out, although I’m not concerned about paddles really.
This is my third car with them and I’ve only really used them when going down long steep hills, otherwise I use drive for driving and sport if I want to go faster.
I also had a 330ci and offloaded it early, partially because of the woeful throttle response and partially because of too many small faults.
Speed addicted said:
RobM77 said:
And as above, the 530d is only available with an auto box now, which is indeed one reason I'd hesitate to nominate it on a thread such as this. It's a very large luxury car and not everyone wants that. Manual boxes were a rare option early in the F10's life and in previous generations, but I think I'm right that since the F10 LCI they've been auto only. The same is true for the competition from Jaguar, Lexus, and Mercedes.I have a strong preference for manual, but I must admit that the ZF8 box is so good that whilst I'd still rather have a manual, I'm perfectly happy with it. The key thing for me is that it has paddles, which I couldn't be without, offering a full manual mode and the software works very well, rather than being obstructive. It's certainly the best auto I've driven. So the only remaining disadvantage really is the lack of involvement pushing a pedal and moving a gearstick, plus the weight.
I also have a strong preference for petrol, but I have a stronger preference for throttle response, and since drive by wire throttle came in I've yet to drive a petrol engine in a fully homologated road car that I can tolerate in this regard. My wife's car is a great example: it has a VTEC petrol engine that revs to over 8k, which is heavenly, but it has a lag at the top of the pedal, so for me is ultimately too frustrating to drive too often. I've tried to own two such cars myself: an E46 330ci and a Z4C - both sold in under a year and under 10k miles because I couldn't tolerate the lack of throttle response.
The ZF 8 speed is a lovely thing so it doesn’t feel like I’m loosing out, although I’m not concerned about paddles really.
This is my third car with them and I’ve only really used them when going down long steep hills, otherwise I use drive for driving and sport if I want to go faster.
I also had a 330ci and offloaded it early, partially because of the woeful throttle response and partially because of too many small faults.
My E46 330ci was also riddled with countless small faults. The throttle response though was dire, and actually dangerous in certain circumstances. I've owned plenty of great petrol cars since then, but they've either been cable throttles or low volume SVA cars without these problems.I use the paddles for two things:
- Nice corners and roundabouts. Sport does do a similar job, with nice revs giving good control over the car, but I prefer to keep a car locked in one gear from turn-in to exit, which the ZF8 doesn't always do in Sport - it'll change up halfway through a corner, which is far from ideal.
- Overtaking. Safe overtaking, especially in a powerful rear drive car, means only accelerating when you're already out on the other side of the road pointing straight ahead. This is standard IAM practise. What I find with the auto box is that if I push the throttle down far in any of the auto modes, it faffs about changing down, leaving me stuck out on the wrong side of the road whilst it decides what gear to use. When it does find a gear, somewhat jerkily, it seems to prefer about 3000rpm, meaning you're beyond peak torque for the engine even before you've started accelerating. Furthermore, those sorts of revs mean it needs to do a gearchange during the overtake, which again is bad practise. To solve all of this I always pop it into manual mode before overtaking - the reduction in time exposed to danger is huge.
Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 17th June 18:27
cologne2792 said:
Yeah pretty poor isn't it, 21s 100-200 kph? Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff