RE: No more cars from TVR, says Smolensky
Discussion
JonRB said:
300bhp/ton said:
So basically your point is, unless you are already successful don't even bother trying... 
No, his point is that the rich heritage of an established brand is a stepping stone you can stand on for success and that the job is harder without it. So you can put your rolley eyes away there. Why else would VAG bother resurrecting the Bugatti brand, or Mercedes-Benz the Maybach brand?
JonRB said:
300bhp/ton said:
So basically your point is, unless you are already successful don't even bother trying...
No, his point is that the rich heritage of an established brand is a stepping stone you can stand on for success and that the job is harder without it. So you can put your rolley eyes away there. Why else would VAG bother resurrecting the Bugatti brand, or Mercedes-Benz the Maybach brand?
Alfa numeric said:
Lee Noble is aiming for that market with Fenix, his new company. He's got previous in the market and is planning on starting small, so he's doing exactly what you say. He even showed his prototype to the mags in early 2010. Strangely I can't get on his website this morning.
I'm sure there is a market for that kind of car. Hell I'm in the market for that kind of car. Unfortunately it would appear that the market isn't big enough to sustain many companies- Morgan, Lotus and possibly Ginetta are the only ones to make a go of it. TVR, Jensen, Marcos and a host of others have proved how difficult it can be over the last 10 years. When you've got to develop the suspension, drivetrain, air conditioning, parking sensors and the million other things that 99% of the market requires it's difficult to survive on 1-2 cars per week.
Lee Noble's site has been dead for well over 18 months now. I understand he was struggling to get financed.I'm sure there is a market for that kind of car. Hell I'm in the market for that kind of car. Unfortunately it would appear that the market isn't big enough to sustain many companies- Morgan, Lotus and possibly Ginetta are the only ones to make a go of it. TVR, Jensen, Marcos and a host of others have proved how difficult it can be over the last 10 years. When you've got to develop the suspension, drivetrain, air conditioning, parking sensors and the million other things that 99% of the market requires it's difficult to survive on 1-2 cars per week.
The frustrating thing here is that with the right business model and strategy it appears it is possible to build cars with modern chassis and suspension designs and sell them at around £75k and make a profit at relatively low volumes (20 - 50 cars per year)
However stories of companies like Artega going to the wall don't help but what's needed is an approach, as suggested, like TVRs old process but modernised that's geared up, or rather geared down to survive on low volumes rather than aiming high and incurring crippling costs that can't be contained when unrealistic sales figures can't be met.
That said in these days getting the finance in place for such a project is going to be almost impossible with risk averse investment funds and banks. Short of finding a car nut with some money to invest/risk or a lottery win it's not going to happen.
Didn't have time to read all of the previous posts, but Caterham should fill the gap left by TVR. They're a successful manufacturer of low volume cars, so this is a natural market for them. Keep it simple and you're onto a winner. I saw under the bonnet of a Cerbera at the weekend, and the simplicity of the engine installation compared to the Discoverer that it was trying to jump start was staggering. The market for simple cars is small, but it's definitely out there.
dtrump said:
I'd imagine that a Cerbera powered by a BMW twin-turbo V8 diesel and a GT350 powered by a 100kW electric motor would cost the earth.
But a Tuscan Mk2 with an old 400hp Corvette LS3 engine...between £100,000 and £200,000?....come on now, don't be silly.
Just sounds like he's made a bit of a starting effort but got bored and can't be arsed anymore
EXACTLY what i was thinking.But a Tuscan Mk2 with an old 400hp Corvette LS3 engine...between £100,000 and £200,000?....come on now, don't be silly.
Just sounds like he's made a bit of a starting effort but got bored and can't be arsed anymore
What an absolute tosser. The brand is meaningless for anything other than sports cars, so why didn't he sell the brand earlier? Didn't everyone else years ago make the same conclusion he's just come to?
At least the brand may now be sold to someone who cares about it and may be able to do something positive with it......
At least the brand may now be sold to someone who cares about it and may be able to do something positive with it......
Im guessing that Smolensky has lost millions on buying TVR nevertheless?!
Shame i was hoping to see these back on the road. Looks like we have to place our faith in Lotus coming up with the new cars they promised.
Shame i was hoping to see these back on the road. Looks like we have to place our faith in Lotus coming up with the new cars they promised.
Dave Hedgehog said:
could easily cost 200k, if there expected turnover was moderately low, they have the cost of setting up the business, tooling up, training staff, getting systems into place, dealer network, advertising, actually making the thing etc
all of which would have to be payed for by the buyers
all of which would have to be payed for by the buyers
V8 GRF said:
I doubt it, I wouldn't think (hope) BMW would take him that seriously. It probably just proves he's a pathological liar and he thought he'd make it sound like he'd really being trying to bring the brand back by listing a few projects when in actual fact he's been doing nothing.
Damn, I've got to agree with you again, Dave!
JonRB said:
300bhp/ton said:
And in the absence of having that... are you suggesting don't bother, or that it might be viable?
I'm not suggesting anything. I'm merely stating the fact that an established brand can be a stepping stone / leg up / head start. I've no idea on the sales figures, but even if you had 1 in 20 ex TVR customers that might be interested, then I'd have thought that lucrative enough to give it a go.
richb77 said:
Yeah as in they wanted the doors to shut, Not p*ss in water and for it to start without having to sacrifice a chicken!
says someone who owned a 1960s Land Rover! TVRs aren't that bad are they? I drove a Cerb, the doors shut (it was dry) and it started on the button and went like stink and sounded great. If it wasn't for the fact that running costs were likely to be far higher than the Elise I got instead I would probably have bought it (but would probably have had to sell it by now, whereas I've still got the Elise!)julianc said:
What an absolute tosser. The brand is meaningless for anything other than sports cars, so why didn't he sell the brand earlier? Didn't everyone else years ago make the same conclusion he's just come to?
At least the brand may now be sold to someone who cares about it and may be able to do something positive with it......
This. But he's wasted irreplaceable time. Precious time. fAt least the brand may now be sold to someone who cares about it and may be able to do something positive with it......
ktard.This has to be the oddest piece of business History for decades.
Even John DeLorean had a crack before falling on his face, this guy hasn't even tried. When I read that he was trying to sell TVR's again for hundreds of thousands I just shook my head. Ask any UK petrol headwhat the essence of TVR is and they will say roots - not technology which costs a fortune.
He just seems to have no business accumen whatsoever - no prior planning, no business model and no sense of product design.
Even John DeLorean had a crack before falling on his face, this guy hasn't even tried. When I read that he was trying to sell TVR's again for hundreds of thousands I just shook my head. Ask any UK petrol headwhat the essence of TVR is and they will say roots - not technology which costs a fortune.
He just seems to have no business accumen whatsoever - no prior planning, no business model and no sense of product design.
Ending up as a kind of windturbine is just adding insult to injury.
Economies of scale seem to be killing off these cars, but I can't believe that there is no demand for them anymore. I wonder if there is a market for a relatively lightweight vehicle architecture which can be produced in moderate volumes for sale to small sportscar companies, and to which they can then fit whatever outrageous engine and bodywork suits?
300bhp/ton said:
snip...I'm surprised no body is or has made an attempt to build TVR like cars to fill the void left when TVR went bust.
I've no idea on the sales figures, but even if you had 1 in 20 ex TVR customers that might be interested, then I'd have thought that lucrative enough to give it a go.
I can think of two off the top of my head, both of which used famous names:I've no idea on the sales figures, but even if you had 1 in 20 ex TVR customers that might be interested, then I'd have thought that lucrative enough to give it a go.
Jensen:
(For sale http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3951937.htm )
...and Marcos
Unfortunately neither lasted long.
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