RE: Chris Harris Video: Hot Hatch Showdown

[Dr Z]

Great vid! Did you ever hit that cone, CH? Was getting very close from the camera angles!

[treetops]

RemyMartin said:

DanielSan said:

Distracted by a watch? Really?

Am I the only one who doesn't even notice a presenters hand while they're talking?

I've never noticed any watch on display in any CH video.

So either PH has quite a lot of aspergers sufferers or people on this site suffer from crazy levels of 'analness'

There are those in life that "see" and others that "see beyond"...

I think your rather glib refernce to aspergers is somewhat unneeded and not applicable.

[framerateuk]

356Speedster said:

All of these go into the final price and also explain the desirability of Mountune cars on the 2nd hand market - a simple remap doesn't add value, but these kits do add a few quids at the other end. It's horses for courses and while some will want the quick bang for buck and be prepared to risk a warranty, others will see the value in the factory backed package.

Depends how you sell it. On the private market maybe, but after owning a Mountuned Fiesta ST, I can assure you none of the garages cared about the Mountune upgrades. One actually told me it made the car harder to sell on. I will admit that the Fiesta packages were a bit more "hardcore" than the Focus ones though.

[Crafty_]

I don't get the logic "The VXR is too expensive at 27k, but the Focus wins at 28k"

?

They are all similar cars at the end of the day.

I've got the original astra at the time I found the old ST wallowy with lots of body roll, it'd also get going and just when you though it'd really start pulling it seemed to hit a wall.
The Mk5 gti I tested was just utterly boring and to be honest wasn't any better built than the other two.
The astra had the better torque curve and pulled better, remap improves this again.
I don't think the megane was out at the time..

I hear that the new astra (haven't driven one yet) needs more provoking to make it go, shame.
I wonder if the new ST is as soft as the old ?

BMW 1 series doesn't appeal at all for some reason, interestingly its lighter than all three of the cars on test (1430 vs 1465 (ST) vs 1475 (VXR), Megane is 1387).

My astra has 19s on it, because the 18s look crap - nice little trick Vauxhall pulled and they have done it again, the stock wheel on the new VXR looks like some sort of 80s reject. On the new one the option wheel you see in the video is 20". FFS! stick 18s on the damm thing, no need for 20" wheels on it, especially when the punter has got to stump up for tyres all the time!

The only advantage the 20" rim has is its very light - the same wheel comes on insignia VXRs and its lighter than the smaller, stock wheel.

To be honest I think I'm getting a bit old for hot hatches nowadays, combine that with the lack of appeal from most modern cars at the moment I've got a hankering for a Mk2 escort as a daily.. doubt its practical though!

I wonder what prices A45 AMG will come out at and what depreciation will be like after a couple of years..

[RockDoctor]

I saw a new VXR today. Quite a striking car, I liked it. My money would still go to the Renault, but it really was a nice looking car.

[kpb]

356Speedster said:

...chances are they'll still then be a good way cheaper than the £27.5K BM with no options, which as we all know if a big no-no, if you want to protect any kind of investment.

Climate, leather, bluetooth, DAB, auto lights and wipers (from Jan) are all standard in the M135i. So its not exactly poverty spec!

If you bought one at the OTR price after discounts, i'd bet that you'd get the price difference (over a VX or ST etc) back at resale given the reputation its already garnered and the badge on the front.

Ref your last point. In my experience options never return a proportional amount at resale or PX. They just run off the Glass' Guide for the year, model and mileage and factor in condition. Alloys, ICE upgrades etc count for nothing.

[356Speedster]

kpb said:

Climate, leather, bluetooth, DAB, auto lights and wipers (from Jan) are all standard in the M135i. So its not exactly poverty spec!

If you bought one at the OTR price after discounts, i'd bet that you'd get the price difference (over a VX or ST etc) back at resale given the reputation its already garnered and the badge on the front.

Ref your last point. In my experience options never return a proportional amount at resale or PX. They just run off the Glass' Guide for the year, model and mileage and factor in condition. Alloys, ICE upgrades etc count for nothing.

I agree that those bits are hardly poverty spec as std, but because most owners tick more boxes, the std ones are always frowned upon. Amusingly, the hardcore M3s suffered this issue - while no toys is good for weight, the dealers & 2nd hand buyers weren't interested and went after those which had the toys added, LOL! You'd have to be a brave person to take a no-option BM from new.

See my earlier posts ref 4yr value predictions from GG.... all 4 of them are predicted to end up within £1,500 of each other, therefore, no if you take the BMW, the market is predicting worse depreciation and a bigger financial loss than the other cars.

[ajprice]

There's 1 M135i on Autotrader...

3dr £31,490
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2012...

And 2 on PH Classifieds

5dr auto £32,850
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...

5dr £33,950
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...

Edited by ajprice on Friday 23 November 15:49

[RobCrezz]

Great video Chris, really enjoyed it.

[nickfrog]

356Speedster said:

See my earlier posts ref 4yr value predictions from GG.... all 4 of them are predicted to end up within £1,500 of each other, therefore, no if you take the BMW, the market is predicting worse depreciation and a bigger financial loss than the other cars.

GG can't even get it right for current second hand values so I can't see how they could predict values in 4 years time. They've just taken % depreciation of the old shape 135i one and extrapolated it on the new one without looking any further, unlike most weirdos like us who understand a little more...possibly ! ;-)

[TobesH]

JD said:

TobesH said:

I love the new M135i and all these hot hatches. For like for like compare contract hire costs... the Ford is a lot cheaper than the BMW before adding spec in real terms which will reflect actual discounts and cost to run including depreciation:

BMW standard spec with no extras personal contract 36months £ 533 per month
Ford ST1 standard spec with no extras personal contract 36months £ 341 per month
Renault Cup standard spec with no extras personal contract 36months £ 304 per month
Vauxhall standard spec with no extras personal contract 36months £ 429 per month

Where did you get the figure of £304 for 36 months in the Renault? best I managed to find was £360 ish

http://www.nationwidevehiclecontracts.co.uk/Renault_Megane_Coupe-20_T_16V_Renaultsport_265_Cup_[Start_Stop]-44500.htm

[TobesH]

356Speedster said:

TobesH said:

BMW standard spec with no extras personal contract 36months £ 533 per month
Ford ST1 standard spec with no extras personal contract 36months £ 341 per month
Renault Cup standard spec with no extras personal contract 36months £ 304 per month
Vauxhall standard spec with no extras personal contract 36months £ 429 per month

VERY interesting..... I run a Focus RS MP350 as my company car on a 4yr lease.... mthly price = £330 Full maintenance is another £90, but I get my value from that in tyres alone, LOL!!

Key factors in lease prices are OTR price and depreciation... so, assuming the same down payment / final payment, this suggests BMW & Vauxhall while both the highest OTR priced cars, are also expecting to lose a slightly larger %'age in value over the term..... actually, a quick G-Guide check suggests the ST will lose £15K over 4yrs, the VXR £18K, but the BMW will lose £22K!!! OK, these are only industry estimates, but that is quite a surprise.

Focus RS MP350! Lovely BTW, highly approve

[356Speedster]

nickfrog said:

GG can't even get it right for current second hand values so I can't see how they could predict values in 4 years time. They've just taken % depreciation of the old shape 135i one and extrapolated it on the new one without looking any further, unlike most weirdos like us who understand a little more...possibly ! ;-)

Maybe, but it's clearly influencing the lease prices already and their prices will be something around what any trader will offer in a P/X, so while I agree it's not perfect, it's a fair guide. Time will tell of course.

[Grovsie26]

ADM06 said:

They'll make 380bhp on a a decent map. Certainly casts some doubt over what ford are charging for an extra 30bhp.

Edited by ADM06 on Thursday 22 November 23:09

LOL are you that stupid. Comparing an aftermarket remap/tune, to a Manufactuer one that keeps the warranty, not to mention gains between a Straight 6 Twin Turbo and a 4 Cylinder 2.0 Litre.

Also a 200quid intercooler for a M135i. LOL. Dream on kid. You =clueless. Not even close to a grand is it. FOS.

[rocky79]

Am I the only one that finds these videos a bit rubbish. There is nothing new, different or interesting in what is being done or said. Some of the stuff is a bit amateur too, like saying ' oh, they use damping on this dont they?'... I dont know you tell me..!

The just remind me of Tiff Needell on Top Gear in the early 90's reviewing cars.

Appreciate there isnt a lot of this out there at the moment and it fills a gap, I just expect something a new instead of driving a car around and stating the obvious.

[the stigs dad]

Interesting just found this online

http://www.speedmonkey.co.uk/2012/10/hot-hatches-o...

I prefer the old hot hatches!

[Steve vRS]

[redacted]

[blearyeyedboy]

Steve vRS said:

Of course, I'd have the Octavia flavour

That's what I bought. But I keep looking longingly at other hot hatches in the classifieds... I want something a little faster and a little nimbler when I can afford to change. Soon...

[Merle]

Reliability? My son has a 2004 Focus STI (U.S.-Cosworth head) with a lot of miles. No major problems. Exhaust rattles, motor mounts, clutch, brakes. Parts are cheap, and we can do most things in the driveway. Hard to beat.

[MadDog1962]

[redacted]