2 young guys killed in Austrian Alps racing. Came off a clif
Discussion
RemyMartin said:
I have to say, whilst clearly tragic, I'm not sure why this is more newsworthy than say any other road death that happens on a daily basis, probably more to do with the shots of the wreckage.
I also think that were this to happen in the UK rather than the Alps the response on here would be very different. Its the parents I feel sorry for not the two dead. They have to live with it everyday and see their kids names stirred through the media.
Agreed.I also think that were this to happen in the UK rather than the Alps the response on here would be very different. Its the parents I feel sorry for not the two dead. They have to live with it everyday and see their kids names stirred through the media.
Suffolk near Barton Mills two weeks ago, 4 killed, 2 elderly in a i30 Hyundai, 2 young guys early 20's in an M3, collided head on, The M3 somersaulted into somebodys front garden and burst into flames with the 2 guys trapped inside.
In many ways far more tragic than this accident but not given anywhere near the same coverage nationally.
OpulentBob said:
Then there SHOULD have been skid marks. If you can't see, you stop the car. You don't carry on driving, hoping the road will still be there, especially on unfamiliar roads. Driving basics, that.
Would you get skid marks in a short space of road like that with ABS from high speed? I thought at best you would only see a few very short "grabs"' on the Tarmacs m said:
OpulentBob said:
Then there SHOULD have been skid marks. If you can't see, you stop the car. You don't carry on driving, hoping the road will still be there, especially on unfamiliar roads. Driving basics, that.
Would you get skid marks in a short space of road like that with ABS from high speed? I thought at best you would only see a few very short "grabs"' on the Tarmac
Could have been a little icy too, it's an alpine location early in the morning and that exact spot appears to be in shadow at that time.
OpulentBob said:
Then there SHOULD have been skid marks. If you can't see, you stop the car. You don't carry on driving, hoping the road will still be there, especially on unfamiliar roads. Driving basics, that.
Or as mentioned a few pages back, he ran out of brakes. When I was desperately trying to stop on that run down into Ambleside on that RAC Rally 25 odd years ago, there were no skid marks on the road, just the marks in the grass bank that brought me to a stop....as the red hot glowing brakes didn't. The glow and smoke n flames looked pretty though in the dark as we tried to extract the car from the grass bank/hedgerow.
Monkeylegend said:
RemyMartin said:
I have to say, whilst clearly tragic, I'm not sure why this is more newsworthy than say any other road death that happens on a daily basis, probably more to do with the shots of the wreckage.
I also think that were this to happen in the UK rather than the Alps the response on here would be very different. Its the parents I feel sorry for not the two dead. They have to live with it everyday and see their kids names stirred through the media.
Agreed.I also think that were this to happen in the UK rather than the Alps the response on here would be very different. Its the parents I feel sorry for not the two dead. They have to live with it everyday and see their kids names stirred through the media.
Suffolk near Barton Mills two weeks ago, 4 killed, 2 elderly in a i30 Hyundai, 2 young guys early 20's in an M3, collided head on, The M3 somersaulted into somebodys front garden and burst into flames with the 2 guys trapped inside.
In many ways far more tragic than this accident but not given anywhere near the same coverage nationally.
I think forums and general car culture are kind of responsible, in part at least as it is always ultimately down to whoever is driving.
All the talk on here of "hooning" and all the videos we see make it all sound wonderful but I expect most who talk about going quickly are actually pretty sensible in reality.
Also, on board video recording, hmm, not sure about that, what is it there for in this circumstance ? to capture someone trying to scam the insurance or to prove fault in a claim, or so they have some footage to post on the internet so they get some hearty virtual back slaps and comments saying what a wheelman they are and how brave ?
We need to remember we are pretty vulnerable really, cars are safer than they have ever been but the faster you go, the less the car can protect you, in most circumstances we end up with a bent car on the back of a low loader, maybe a few bruises and some expense but proper injury or death is always a possibility, especially when your route involves sheer drops.
I think we have a responsibility to encourage better driving and stress the potential consequences, my eldest is getting to the point where he wants a car quicker than his C1, he wants a Clio 182, after all, its only a little Clio isnt it, a Clio with almost three times the power, it isnt a GT40 but its enough to get you in a lot more trouble, I see young drivers come on here and people suggesting ridiculous cars for people who have just passed their tests.
If you want to go daft, do a track day, go karting, but not ont he road, it never ends well.
RIP lads.
All the talk on here of "hooning" and all the videos we see make it all sound wonderful but I expect most who talk about going quickly are actually pretty sensible in reality.
Also, on board video recording, hmm, not sure about that, what is it there for in this circumstance ? to capture someone trying to scam the insurance or to prove fault in a claim, or so they have some footage to post on the internet so they get some hearty virtual back slaps and comments saying what a wheelman they are and how brave ?
We need to remember we are pretty vulnerable really, cars are safer than they have ever been but the faster you go, the less the car can protect you, in most circumstances we end up with a bent car on the back of a low loader, maybe a few bruises and some expense but proper injury or death is always a possibility, especially when your route involves sheer drops.
I think we have a responsibility to encourage better driving and stress the potential consequences, my eldest is getting to the point where he wants a car quicker than his C1, he wants a Clio 182, after all, its only a little Clio isnt it, a Clio with almost three times the power, it isnt a GT40 but its enough to get you in a lot more trouble, I see young drivers come on here and people suggesting ridiculous cars for people who have just passed their tests.
If you want to go daft, do a track day, go karting, but not ont he road, it never ends well.
RIP lads.
audidoody said:
They're not journalists. They are low-paid media studies graduates paid peanuts to monitor social networking sites and steal, cut and paste anything deemed of interest, rewriting it to a style guide involving every cliche known to man
I'm going to cut and paste that into the DM comments.While the event itself was an organised rally, it seems - if comments read elsewhere are to be believed - that two cars went back up the pass for another go.
If they were racing, that's "and illegal race" and the Daily Mail, much as it pains me, is correct.
No point arguing over whether "race" or "rally" got lost in translation or whether the Mail is forcing its own agenda if the two cars involved went off plan and did in fact race.
If they were racing, that's "and illegal race" and the Daily Mail, much as it pains me, is correct.
No point arguing over whether "race" or "rally" got lost in translation or whether the Mail is forcing its own agenda if the two cars involved went off plan and did in fact race.
EricE said:
Super Slo Mo said:
Could have been a little icy too, it's an alpine location early in the morning and that exact spot appears to be in shadow at that time.
The webcam screenshot shows 14.3°C air temperature at 7:40 so that seems unlikely. 
Ok, probably not icy.
Sad end but as people have stated from the video "a accident waiting to happen". We all did it when younger, now me being of the +40 group! I certainly didnt have a Vantage back then but a little Honda CRX. Roller skate on wheels and it sounded good when revved....so you rev it with the associated speed in the built up areas you hung around in. A couple of close calls which some say is down to "youthful exubarance" but was know now was silly stupidity but at the time it was "fun". But you get older and then realise those silly speeds are not needed....well just in "sensible" places but that all comes with age and more importantly experience.
I can count on one hand how many times i have been over 100 in the Vantage. Doesnt interest me or my licence. I dont want to mod it in any great way, again you grow out of it i suppose.
I think the driver/owner of the Seat forgot one thing when he mod'ded the car, the most important bit...himself and his ability.
I can count on one hand how many times i have been over 100 in the Vantage. Doesnt interest me or my licence. I dont want to mod it in any great way, again you grow out of it i suppose.
I think the driver/owner of the Seat forgot one thing when he mod'ded the car, the most important bit...himself and his ability.
J4CKO said:
I think forums and general car culture are kind of responsible, in part at least as it is always ultimately down to whoever is driving.
Sunday mornings would always see young lads' cars tipped into ditches or trees on a Saturday night long before the Internet was invented. I see your point and agree but of say that greater car ownership and faster cars amongst the group most likely to bin them is a stronger driver. hornetrider said:
Hackney said:
If they were racing, that's "and illegal race" and the Daily Mail, much as it pains me, is correct.
That's an odd statement. You have effectively said, if they were racing they were racing.They could have just been going for another go.
PH - They were on a motor rally
DM - they were in an illegal race
It appears from statements that the two cars went back for another run and were racing. That means they're no longer "on an organised motor rally", and are now racing on the public road, ie "in an illegal race"
In short, if they were racing, by default it was an illegal race regardless if the wider event was a rally.
Hackney said:
It appears from statements that the two cars went back for another run and were racing.
Does it? Or were they just going back up for another go? I know when I've been over there on the bike I've gone back for a second crack at the hill. Just for another go like. Obviously the rides were spirited and judging by these guys their driving was spirited too. But it's not necessarily racing.
What event they were engaged in seems rather irrelevant really, at the end of the day they were just driving inappropriately and dangerously for the road. His ambition clearly exceeded his talent and they paid the ultimate price.
I've driven that road and there's no way I would even contemplate driving it at that sort of speed. Having a healthy appreciation of gravity I drive such roads cautiously and appreciate the scenery rather than trying to push it to the limit.
RIP and let it be a lesson to the rest of us.
I've driven that road and there's no way I would even contemplate driving it at that sort of speed. Having a healthy appreciation of gravity I drive such roads cautiously and appreciate the scenery rather than trying to push it to the limit.
RIP and let it be a lesson to the rest of us.
Having watched the video, they seem to be gunning the car whenever there was an opportunity. I know its technically a 'toll road', but what is the posted speed limit on the route? Is it variable, or is there a blanket '50kph' or whatever?
As regards to the temperature at the time, and if there was possible Ice, I'd suggest it unlikely at this time of year. However, of more interest would be the 'dew point' temperature. It could well be that if they took a shaded corner at an early time of the day, a sheen of moisture might have been present. This can be almost a slippery as ice, and everyone driving such routes should be warned of the danger.
I remember a hairy incident in the Pyrenees in Mid August one evening - entering an S bend to find it slippery like Ice. I ended straight lining a series of bends without meaning too.... If anything was coming the other way a that precise time I'd have been totalled - even though I was not driving in anything like a similar manner to the guys in the Seat.
However, most likely in this case I think the guy just didn't appreciate the coming turn, and went straight off having entered it way to fast. Must have known for some time that they were falling to their death. terrifying.
As regards to the temperature at the time, and if there was possible Ice, I'd suggest it unlikely at this time of year. However, of more interest would be the 'dew point' temperature. It could well be that if they took a shaded corner at an early time of the day, a sheen of moisture might have been present. This can be almost a slippery as ice, and everyone driving such routes should be warned of the danger.
I remember a hairy incident in the Pyrenees in Mid August one evening - entering an S bend to find it slippery like Ice. I ended straight lining a series of bends without meaning too.... If anything was coming the other way a that precise time I'd have been totalled - even though I was not driving in anything like a similar manner to the guys in the Seat.
However, most likely in this case I think the guy just didn't appreciate the coming turn, and went straight off having entered it way to fast. Must have known for some time that they were falling to their death. terrifying.
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