RE: Unveiled: Caterham's Dramatic New SP/300.R
Discussion
mattmurdock said:
Fittster said:
Which is £55k + VAT (so only £5k cheaper than the SP/300.R) for a car that is slower and has lower specification parts.Of course, plus sides are that it has a roof and it does look quite pretty.
I have a feeling that Caterham are going to be more interested in marketing the SP/300.R as a pure race car than a track day car - as others have said, the real purpose of the car is to catch those that move on to Radical/Juno/Sport2000 racing once they have achieved everything they want to achieve racing Sevens.
RobM77 said:
Sam_68 said:
sfaulds said:
Is your head so far up your @rse that you've not even noticed that Caterham have been selling race cars for as long as they've been in business?
And yet, ironically, on the equivalent thread in the Caterham forum...
he said:
Some people (understandably perhaps) are confusing {the Caterola} with a kitcar, probably partly because they have no frame of reference for a sports prototype racecar.
So which is it: is the Caterola a proper racing car and the Seven not, or the Seven (and other kit track/road cars) just as much of a racing car as much as the Caterola is?You can't have it both ways....
zebedee said:
Sam 68 - isn't that a pic of a privateer Lola that ran MG branding? Do you mean the early 2000s Le Mans MGs? Wouldn't Aston Martin Racing be a more recent example?
Yes it is, and yes, it probably would... I was lazy and posted the first picture I could google of a 'badged' Lola.Nothing wrong with specialst manufacturers creating race cars for production manufacturers who want the glory but lack the know-how, facilities or inclination to do it themselves, of course, but I'd hope that most PistonHeaders are sensible enough to recognise that in these instances, the link between the racers and the road cars that carry the same badge is tenuous in the extreme.
It's a marketing tie up: nothing more.
Sam_68 said:
zebedee said:
Sam 68 - isn't that a pic of a privateer Lola that ran MG branding? Do you mean the early 2000s Le Mans MGs? Wouldn't Aston Martin Racing be a more recent example?
Yes it is, and yes, it probably would... I was lazy and posted the first picture I could google of a 'badged' Lola.Nothing wrong with specialst manufacturers creating race cars for production manufacturers who want the glory but lack the know-how, facilities or inclination to do it themselves, of course, but I'd hope that most PistonHeaders are sensible enough to recognise that in these instances, the link between the racers and the road cars that carry the same badge is tenuous in the extreme.
It's a marketing tie up: nothing more.
All the supporters on this thread are trying to point out is that combining Caterham's ability to run one make race series with Lola's ability to build an effective race car is a clever tie up, which should bring benefit to both companies.
And I don't think anyone in this thread has indicated that they think a Seven and the SP/300.R are in some way the same thing as you seem to be implying.
All they have been trying to point out to you (and you have been steadfastly ignoring whilst making sniping comments whenever someone appears to post something that agrees with you) is that the Seven is available both as a road car and as a race car (and has been for a long time), and using Lola expertise to try and plug the gap at the top of their motorsport ladder is likely to be an inspired decision, particularly at the price/spec point they have provided.
Honestly, you just sound bitter, and despite you being a Westfield owner I can't for the life of me think why...
Sam_68 said:
RobM77 said:
Sam_68 said:
sfaulds said:
Is your head so far up your @rse that you've not even noticed that Caterham have been selling race cars for as long as they've been in business?
And yet, ironically, on the equivalent thread in the Caterham forum...
he said:
Some people (understandably perhaps) are confusing {the Caterola} with a kitcar, probably partly because they have no frame of reference for a sports prototype racecar.
So which is it: is the Caterola a proper racing car and the Seven not, or the Seven (and other kit track/road cars) just as much of a racing car as much as the Caterola is?You can't have it both ways....
It looks fab, but at that money a reliable Porsche 997 cup car is a great off the shelf racer?! That qualifies for great race series like the vln etc As a Caterham owner and lover u would love to see an Elise/exige I could run everyday, especially as lotus are now moving into the luxury car sector! would sell by the bucket full!
Wilakroyd said:
It looks fab, but at that money a reliable Porsche 997 cup car is a great off the shelf racer?! That qualifies for great race series like the vln etc As a Caterham owner and lover u would love to see an Elise/exige I could run everyday, especially as lotus are now moving into the luxury car sector! would sell by the bucket full!
The 997 is a completely different sort of car though. Mind you, I guess your point isn't a comparison of cars, but a comparison of costs. Personally, I can see the appeal of the Porsche, but for my own tastes I'd far rather race a purpose built sports prototype racer. Actually though, if I had that sort of money I'd probably still be in a single seater. Each to their own though. I don't think the 997 Cup damages the Caterham/Lola's case at all though, being such a different machine.mattmurdock said:
Honestly, you just sound bitter, and despite you being a Westfield owner I can't for the life of me think why...
Please don't start with that. Up to this point this thread has been reasonably devoid of the usual tedious Westfield/Caterham cockery. Let's keep it that way.Edited by juansolo on Friday 14th January 18:05
mattmurdock said:
Sam_68 said:
Nothing wrong with specialist manufacturers creating race cars for production manufacturers who want the glory but lack the know-how, facilities or inclination to do it themselves, of course...
And your problem with this is?If I have any problem with it, it's that, personally, I would rather see Caterham develop as a manufacturer than as a race series promoter/marketing agent for another company's cars (though I appreciate that's where they started out from, so perhaps it's unfair to be disappointed in them returning to their roots).
mattmurdock said:
Honestly, you just sound bitter, and despite you being a Westfield owner I can't for the life of me think why...
Then you misunderstand me. I've owned a Caterham in the past and there's every chance I'll own one again. I like Caterhams, just as I like Westfields, Lotuses, Sylvas, LCC Rockets, and any other number of lightweight sports cars, but that doesn't mean that I believe every move these companies make is beyond reproach.I'm sorry, I was under this impression that this was a discussion forum. If you're here to indulge in uncritical mutual masturbation over pictures and technical specs. of your favoured marques, then I'm sure that's fine, but I'm afraid I don't wish to join you.
Sorry.
Edited by Sam_68 on Friday 14th January 18:30
Wilakroyd said:
It looks fab, but at that money a reliable Porsche 997 cup car is a great off the shelf racer?! That qualifies for great race series like the vln etc As a Caterham owner and lover u would love to see an Elise/exige I could run everyday, especially as lotus are now moving into the luxury car sector! would sell by the bucket full!
I think the problem is the costs of running in such championships. We did the sums for Speed/VdeV when we bought ours and simply couldn't afford or justify the huge costs involved. Then again we mainly bought ours for track days. Caterhams race series expertise along with a well developed sports prototype could be cracking combination. This all makes perfect sense for Caterham. To release a road car, at this time wouldn't IMO.I'd also like to re-iterate that the 997 Cup is a completely different kettle of fish to the car that they're selling. It's a big heavy GT. It's far more likely that Caterham racers would want to progress into prototypes/single seaters.
Looks very promising, and given the Lola involvement and the spec it may well be reliable out of the box.
Given the number of cars Radical have sold I'm sure there are many stories both positive and negative about running costs and reliability. I've found it acceptable, my new SR3RS had paddle shift problems relating to a faulty ECU. The car went through two engines which Radical changed promptly and foc and supported me foc at two European tracks for four days in order to ensure it was all sorted.
But I'd love to try the Caterham.
What info on the race series?
Given the number of cars Radical have sold I'm sure there are many stories both positive and negative about running costs and reliability. I've found it acceptable, my new SR3RS had paddle shift problems relating to a faulty ECU. The car went through two engines which Radical changed promptly and foc and supported me foc at two European tracks for four days in order to ensure it was all sorted.
But I'd love to try the Caterham.
What info on the race series?
RobM77 said:
He didn't ask for it both ways... I don't see any comment on the 7 there?
The Seven is a kitcar. He was drawing a distinction between kitcars and 'proper' racing cars (which I certainly would not deny), suggesting that the Caterola falls into the latter category.I don't mind whether you draw such a distinction or not, but you can't big-up the Caterola on one hand for being a 'proper' racing car whilst claiming kit cars are not, then in another thread claim that a kit-car manufacturer has been building proper racing cars for years...
Sam_68 said:
RobM77 said:
He didn't ask for it both ways... I don't see any comment on the 7 there?
The Seven is a kitcar. He was drawing a distinction between kitcars and 'proper' racing cars (which I certainly would not deny), suggesting that the Caterola falls into the latter category.I don't mind whether you draw such a distinction or not, but you can't big-up the Caterola on one hand for being a 'proper' racing car whilst claiming kit cars are not, then in another thread claim that a kit-car manufacturer has been building proper racing cars for years...
Sam, you're a sad pedantic @rse, and frankly tedious. I think they're are 2 types of people on this thread - the internet experts who'll sit around and slag the car off with no more experience than google provides, and those who'll actually find out for real. I'll be sure and let you know how right you are when our two arrive.
sfaulds said:
Sam, you're a sad pedantic @rse, and frankly tedious. I think they're are 2 types of people on this thread - the internet experts who'll sit around and slag the car off with no more experience than google provides, and those who'll actually find out for real. I'll be sure and let you know how right you are when our two arrive.
Well this one has split opinion hasnt it!!
Personally I like it. If we look at the niche road car sector in which Caterham operate and where this is going and as others have pointed out...what Caterham are good at, it makes perfect sense.
How many years will it be before the SVA or similar (avoiding the requirement for pedestrian safety, airbags and ABS etc) for low volume car manufacturers in dispensed with? Other countries have already done it meaning that Caterham (and others) can no longer sell their road cars (without serious adaption and dilution) in markets they were previously successful. Therefore a shrinking market.
Within the racing and trackday market, Caterham have expanded into many new markets over the years, recently introducing the Academy to France, however, some countries just dont get the '7', cos it dont look like a race car (to them), so, give 'em a race car and do what Caterham do, build a competitive race series.
Reckon they should be on a winner (as long as the overseas buyers dont look on here!)
Personally I like it. If we look at the niche road car sector in which Caterham operate and where this is going and as others have pointed out...what Caterham are good at, it makes perfect sense.
How many years will it be before the SVA or similar (avoiding the requirement for pedestrian safety, airbags and ABS etc) for low volume car manufacturers in dispensed with? Other countries have already done it meaning that Caterham (and others) can no longer sell their road cars (without serious adaption and dilution) in markets they were previously successful. Therefore a shrinking market.
Within the racing and trackday market, Caterham have expanded into many new markets over the years, recently introducing the Academy to France, however, some countries just dont get the '7', cos it dont look like a race car (to them), so, give 'em a race car and do what Caterham do, build a competitive race series.
Reckon they should be on a winner (as long as the overseas buyers dont look on here!)
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