Do you need anything more than a 320d?

[ddom]

ORD said:

Rob has a unique medical condition - drive by wire petrol engines distress him, but drive by wire dervs are fine.

Just because you cannot feel DBW lag, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[RobM77]

ORD said:

Rob has a unique medical condition - drive by wire petrol engines distress him, but drive by wire dervs are fine.

That’s because it’s the top of the pedal delay I don’t like. Most mainstream petrols have it, but diesels don’t, or at least that’s the case for BMW.

[ORD]

RobM77 said:

That’s because it’s the top of the pedal delay I don’t like. Most mainstream petrols have it, but diesels don’t, or at least that’s the case for BMW.

You could get it programmed out for £50, I would think.

[RobM77]

ORD said:

RobM77 said:

That’s because it’s the top of the pedal delay I don’t like. Most mainstream petrols have it, but diesels don’t, or at least that’s the case for BMW.

You could get it programmed out for £50, I would think.

Nope. I tried that with my 330ci. A company told me they could get rid of it, but they couldn’t. Cost me £250. That doesn’t mean it’s not possible, but I’ve not got good enough evidence to risk losing money buying another DBW petrol car to find out and selling at a loss if it doesn’t work out. I’ve done that twice already and lost thousands.

Edited to add: If you’re acknowledging there’s a difference, why make the comment you made?!

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 17th June 23:04

[ddom]

ORD said:

You could get it programmed out for £50, I would think.

‘Programmed out’



I guess we can look for a serial port and load up a DOS prompt captain.

[ORD]

ddom said:

‘Programmed out’



I guess we can look for a serial port and load up a DOS prompt captain.

Nice one, idiot. It’s definitely possible. It’s all software. It’s all capable of being changed.

[ORD]

RobM77 said:

Nope. I tried that with my 330ci. A company told me they could get rid of it, but they couldn’t. Cost me £250. That doesn’t mean it’s not possible, but I’ve not got good enough evidence to risk losing money buying another DBW petrol car to find out and selling at a loss if it doesn’t work out. I’ve done that twice already and lost thousands.

Edited to add: If you’re acknowledging there’s a difference, why make the comment you made?!

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 17th June 23:04

I’ve no idea whether there’s a difference. I find BMW 4 cylinder turbo engines very laggy, no matter what fuel they use. I would never stop to think precisely which form of delay or slack is annoying me from one moment to the next. It’s all annoying. It’s all DBW and very remote.

[ddom]

ORD said:

I’ve no idea whether there’s a difference. I find BMW 4 cylinder turbo engines very laggy, no matter what fuel they use. I would never stop to think precisely which form of delay or slack is annoying me from one moment to the next. It’s all annoying. It’s all DBW and very remote.

The diesels don’t actually have DBW lag. Which was the point.

[Ares]

Fastdruid said:

There are two absolute essentials on my car list (beyond the basics of needing 4 seats, reasonable boot, tow bar etc).

1) Petrol (and a decent one).
2) Manual

RWD would be nice but is not absolutely essential, it depends on how the car drives.

This means however that just about everything modern is off my shopping list, Audi, BMW, Ford, Mercedes etc, none of them do a "group D" size with a decent petrol engine and a manual gearbox.

You'd really rather a manual FWD than auto RWD?

[RobM77]

ORD said:

RobM77 said:

Nope. I tried that with my 330ci. A company told me they could get rid of it, but they couldn’t. Cost me £250. That doesn’t mean it’s not possible, but I’ve not got good enough evidence to risk losing money buying another DBW petrol car to find out and selling at a loss if it doesn’t work out. I’ve done that twice already and lost thousands.

Edited to add: If you’re acknowledging there’s a difference, why make the comment you made?!

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 17th June 23:04

I’ve no idea whether there’s a difference. I find BMW 4 cylinder turbo engines very laggy, no matter what fuel they use. I would never stop to think precisely which form of delay or slack is annoying me from one moment to the next. It’s all annoying. It’s all DBW and very remote.

DBW doesn't need to make an engine remote. As I said earlier, most modern racing cars use DBW; in fact it's a better system if it's programmed for driver involvement (as it was in my 2-Eleven for example). The lag you are feeling in a BMW DBW 4 cyl diesel is turbo lag, not top of pedal DBW lag, which is what we're discussing. There's a distinct and non-overlapping difference between the situations where turbo lag is felt and where DBW lag is felt.

[Fastdruid]

Ares said:

Fastdruid said:

There are two absolute essentials on my car list (beyond the basics of needing 4 seats, reasonable boot, tow bar etc).

1) Petrol (and a decent one).
2) Manual

RWD would be nice but is not absolutely essential, it depends on how the car drives.

This means however that just about everything modern is off my shopping list, Audi, BMW, Ford, Mercedes etc, none of them do a "group D" size with a decent petrol engine and a manual gearbox.

You'd really rather a manual FWD than auto RWD?

Yes.

I'm one of those weirdos that would rather drive a manual DC5 over an auto diesel SsangYong Rodius.

Edited by Fastdruid on Thursday 18th June 10:41

[Saweep]

AC43 said:

I find the noise of a 4 pot diesel pretty much unbearable. The only time you can't hear it is at constant speed on the motoray and even then, as soon as you put your foot down, it makes that deep, bassy mooing noise. Plus I live in a city and the clatter at idle, the fizz through the pedals & steering wheel and general shuddering drive me to distraction.

6 pots are entirely different manner. Way smoother and borderline tuneful. Not a bad compromise if you want a premium feel but better fule consumption IMHO.

I agree with you. You can feel the whole car shaking through the steering wheel with these horrid engines.

One may become desensitised to the constant clatter but it's still there.

[cerb4.5lee]

Fastdruid said:

Ares said:

Fastdruid said:

There are two absolute essentials on my car list (beyond the basics of needing 4 seats, reasonable boot, tow bar etc).

1) Petrol (and a decent one).
2) Manual

RWD would be nice but is not absolutely essential, it depends on how the car drives.

This means however that just about everything modern is off my shopping list, Audi, BMW, Ford, Mercedes etc, none of them do a "group D" size with a decent petrol engine and a manual gearbox.

You'd really rather a manual FWD than auto RWD?

Yes.

I'm one of those weirdo's that would rather drive a manual DC5 over an auto diesel SsangYong Rodius.

I'm another weirdo that would rather drive my FWD manual petrol Cooper S over an auto 320d. I will enjoy driving the Mini...but I don't see much enjoyment to be had from an auto 320d though.

[Ares]

Fastdruid said:

Ares said:

Fastdruid said:

There are two absolute essentials on my car list (beyond the basics of needing 4 seats, reasonable boot, tow bar etc).

1) Petrol (and a decent one).
2) Manual

RWD would be nice but is not absolutely essential, it depends on how the car drives.

This means however that just about everything modern is off my shopping list, Audi, BMW, Ford, Mercedes etc, none of them do a "group D" size with a decent petrol engine and a manual gearbox.

You'd really rather a manual FWD than auto RWD?

Yes.

I'm one of those weirdos that would rather drive a manual DC5 over an auto diesel SsangYong Rodius.

Edited by Fastdruid on Thursday 18th June 10:41

And a Manual DC5 over a BMW M3/AMG C63/Alfa QV/911 GTS/Ferrari F8/etc....?

[Ares]

cerb4.5lee said:

I'm another weirdo that would rather drive my FWD manual petrol Cooper S over an auto 320d. I will enjoy driving the Mini...but I don't see much enjoyment to be had from an auto 320d though.

But you would take ANY manual FWD over ANY Auto RWD car?

[Triumph Man]

RobM77 said:

ORD said:

RobM77 said:

That’s because it’s the top of the pedal delay I don’t like. Most mainstream petrols have it, but diesels don’t, or at least that’s the case for BMW.

You could get it programmed out for £50, I would think.

Nope. I tried that with my 330ci. A company told me they could get rid of it, but they couldn’t. Cost me £250. That doesn’t mean it’s not possible, but I’ve not got good enough evidence to risk losing money buying another DBW petrol car to find out and selling at a loss if it doesn’t work out. I’ve done that twice already and lost thousands.

Edited to add: If you’re acknowledging there’s a difference, why make the comment you made?!

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 17th June 23:04

I'm sure there's a reset you can do? (something to do with stomping on the throttle pedal a few times, turning the ignition on, and standing on your head or something.) My E39 530i (the same M54 engine as your 330ci) has no throttle pedal lag, and I have a cable throttle'd M50 engined car alongside it to compare to.

[cerb4.5lee]

Ares said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I'm another weirdo that would rather drive my FWD manual petrol Cooper S over an auto 320d. I will enjoy driving the Mini...but I don't see much enjoyment to be had from an auto 320d though.

But you would take ANY manual FWD over ANY Auto RWD car?

Good question and it is the manual bit that I'm usually really attracted to, but there are some very nice auto RWD performance cars out there though for sure.

For example my E90 330i was an auto and I enjoyed driving the manual transit van I hired more...purely because I could row my own gears again! I really miss doing that whenever I drive an auto.

[bodhi]

Triumph Man said:

RobM77 said:

ORD said:

RobM77 said:

That’s because it’s the top of the pedal delay I don’t like. Most mainstream petrols have it, but diesels don’t, or at least that’s the case for BMW.

You could get it programmed out for £50, I would think.

Nope. I tried that with my 330ci. A company told me they could get rid of it, but they couldn’t. Cost me £250. That doesn’t mean it’s not possible, but I’ve not got good enough evidence to risk losing money buying another DBW petrol car to find out and selling at a loss if it doesn’t work out. I’ve done that twice already and lost thousands.

Edited to add: If you’re acknowledging there’s a difference, why make the comment you made?!

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 17th June 23:04

I'm sure there's a reset you can do? (something to do with stomping on the throttle pedal a few times, turning the ignition on, and standing on your head or something.) My E39 530i (the same M54 engine as your 330ci) has no throttle pedal lag, and I have a cable throttle'd M50 engined car alongside it to compare to.

There is none in my 125i with DBW throttle either. It replaced an E46 330d, and throttle response is better in all situations on the 125i.

[RobM77]

Ares said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I'm another weirdo that would rather drive my FWD manual petrol Cooper S over an auto 320d. I will enjoy driving the Mini...but I don't see much enjoyment to be had from an auto 320d though.

But you would take ANY manual FWD over ANY Auto RWD car?

Well, quite... Implicit in the statement that someone prefers manuals to autos is (or should be) that the rest of the car is comparable. The same goes for any preference. If someone prefers Indian food to English food, that doesn't usually mean they'd rather have a mouldy nan bread than a meal at the Fat Duck. I have a strong preference for rear drive and manual gearboxes, but I'd also rather drive a Cooper S than an auto 320d SE. Cooper S vs GT86 is a more realistic comparison, or auto 320d SE to a Mondeo or Mazda 6.

[RobM77]

bodhi said:

Triumph Man said:

RobM77 said:

ORD said:

RobM77 said:

That’s because it’s the top of the pedal delay I don’t like. Most mainstream petrols have it, but diesels don’t, or at least that’s the case for BMW.

You could get it programmed out for £50, I would think.

Nope. I tried that with my 330ci. A company told me they could get rid of it, but they couldn’t. Cost me £250. That doesn’t mean it’s not possible, but I’ve not got good enough evidence to risk losing money buying another DBW petrol car to find out and selling at a loss if it doesn’t work out. I’ve done that twice already and lost thousands.

Edited to add: If you’re acknowledging there’s a difference, why make the comment you made?!

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 17th June 23:04

I'm sure there's a reset you can do? (something to do with stomping on the throttle pedal a few times, turning the ignition on, and standing on your head or something.) My E39 530i (the same M54 engine as your 330ci) has no throttle pedal lag, and I have a cable throttle'd M50 engined car alongside it to compare to.

There is none in my 125i with DBW throttle either. It replaced an E46 330d, and throttle response is better in all situations on the 125i.

We've been here before... I even met up with a PHer who swore blind his car had no delay. We went for a drive and there was a huge delay.

Regarding the throttle reset, yes, there is a procedure you can do, and a dealer can also perform the reset via the OBD port. It can improve things a little, but the delay will still be there.