Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[RenesisEvo]

_dobbo_ said:

Moderately interesting in light of the recent couple of pages if a straight line drag is your kind of thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H43_lkBkGkg

P1 vs LaFerrari vs 918

Whilst they use VBox, there are more accurate ways of measuring acceleration/speed, albeit at greater cost. I'm disappointed they show only one run, I'd want to see the results from several attempts (in both directions) - of course, this is not so kind to the cars. We also know nothing of fuel loads, driver weights, tyres (compound, pressures, wear). If you are going to do something 'scientific', do it properly.

The most shocking thing for me? How the Porsche driver holds the steering wheel.

[DannyScene]

RenesisEvo said:

The most shocking thing for me? How the Porsche driver holds the steering wheel.

Glad someone else picked up on that

[_dobbo_]

RenesisEvo said:

Whilst they use VBox, there are more accurate ways of measuring acceleration/speed, albeit at greater cost. I'm disappointed they show only one run, I'd want to see the results from several attempts (in both directions) - of course, this is not so kind to the cars. We also know nothing of fuel loads, driver weights, tyres (compound, pressures, wear). If you are going to do something 'scientific', do it properly.

The most shocking thing for me? How the Porsche driver holds the steering wheel.

Apparently the times were aggregated over 7 runs or something. Totally agree on the steering wheel though - WTF.

[SpeckledJim]

Joe911 said:

SpeckledJim said:

Main dealers often have a cut-price rate to work on older cars, simply because their owners can't/won't pay the higher rate.

Or you could argue they have a higher rate for new cars because they know you have (almost) no choice if you want to maintain the warranty!

You could argue that.

They don't have enough customers at the high rate to reach their capacity, so rather than cut their rate across the board to fill their spaces, they introduce an arbitrary (but justifiable) hierarchy to let them aim at two markets, at two rates, to reach a higher uptake.

SEAT, VW, AUDI cars are an illustration of basically exactly the same thing. So to a lesser extent is 540, 650, P1.

[Storer]

Looking at that Video it is hard to understand why the Ferrari isn't the fastest. According to the figures it is the lightest and most powerful.
In the run in the vid it is the fastest away from the line but the P1 soon passes it.

The weight of the Porsche is it's downfall.

It does suggest that the La Ferrari struggles to get close to the published figures for its specification.

An interesting test would be to put all three on a 4 wheel rolling road and a weighbridge. I have done both with my car so I know what I am getting. After the VW debacle, why do we trust the manufacturer to provide accurate figures?


Paul

[flemke]

_dobbo_ said:

Moderately interesting in light of the recent couple of pages if a straight line drag is your kind of thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H43_lkBkGkg

P1 vs LaFerrari vs 918

Often these videos have been faked. In this case, however, we know that it is real, because at the start you can see the Ferrari cheating.

[flemke]

McAndy said:

What I've found interesting about the last few pages is how many of these "boutique" car manufacturers, as they have come to be known, have adopted business practices of questionable morality. We all know about Ferrari; McLaren seem not to give a toss any more, either; and Pagani did how many "last" Zondas? (Although I'm willing to stand corrected if that was merely the press cocking up reporting and not Horacio's claims.)

Are there any premium car manufacturers who make a quality product and then don't make you pay through the nose for the most ridiculous of things and/or quite simply lie regarding exclusivity?

None that come to mind!

[flemke]

smithyithy said:

I've noticed a pattern of charging a lot more for equivalent products relative to the car's price..

For example I've seen companies charging £399 to remap a £25k car, and £999 to remap a £50k car.

Why? In some cases the engines etc are practically the same, and the same amount of labour is involved.

Is it really just a case of 'the car's worth more so they can pay more for the work / product'?

Is it any different from the solicitors whose conveyancing fees are a % of the sales price?

[flemke]

DannyScene said:

RenesisEvo said:

The most shocking thing for me? How the Porsche driver holds the steering wheel.

Glad someone else picked up on that

Laugh if you will, but I'll bet his reactions times are faster than yours.

[flemke]

Storer said:

Looking at that Video it is hard to understand why the Ferrari isn't the fastest. According to the figures it is the lightest and most powerful.
In the run in the vid it is the fastest away from the line but the P1 soon passes it.

The weight of the Porsche is it's downfall.

It does suggest that the La Ferrari struggles to get close to the published figures for its specification.

An interesting test would be to put all three on a 4 wheel rolling road and a weighbridge. I have done both with my car so I know what I am getting. After the VW debacle, why do we trust the manufacturer to provide accurate figures?
Paul

At least we know that the 918 actually did the time with which it is credited, on genuine road tyres.
McLaren won't tell us what time the P1 did, and Ferrari, well, whatever they might have told us we wouldn't have believed.

The low-medium speed acceleration of the 918 has to be experienced. By my count there are 73 bends on the Nordschleife - the driver has to get back on the power 73 separate times within less than 7 minutes - once every 6 seconds. Regardless of top end, which in the real world is about as close to irrelevant as one will ever get, even on the Autobahn, the 918's tremendous overall traction and acceleration make its NS time understandable.

[smithyithy]

flemke said:

Is it any different from the solicitors whose conveyancing fees are a % of the sales price?

Probably not (though I know nothing about law practice).

[Storer]

Porsche have a lot of experience getting 'fat' cars to handle and go like stink (think Cayenne & Panamera).

Fit and finish should be good too, as would ergonomics. Might be the 'cheapest' to service/maintain as well.

Not sure it will make you feel as "special" as either of the others. Sensible but not "special". These are not everyday cars after all!

Of course, the only way I would truly know is by trying them all, and that is never going to happen.

Paul

[Joe911]

flemke said:

McAndy said:

What I've found interesting about the last few pages is how many of these "boutique" car manufacturers, as they have come to be known, have adopted business practices of questionable morality. We all know about Ferrari; McLaren seem not to give a toss any more, either; and Pagani did how many "last" Zondas? (Although I'm willing to stand corrected if that was merely the press cocking up reporting and not Horacio's claims.)

Are there any premium car manufacturers who make a quality product and then don't make you pay through the nose for the most ridiculous of things and/or quite simply lie regarding exclusivity?

None that come to mind!

I think Porsche are pretty honest on build numbers, exclusivity, etc. - right?




They do sometimes take the piss on options ... want your 918 key in the same paint as your car ... £1000, apparently.

[EricE]

Joe911 said:

I think Porsche are pretty honest on build numbers, exclusivity, etc. - right?




They do sometimes take the piss on options ... want your 918 key in the same paint as your car ... £1000, apparently.

Fun fact: Piech and his crew couldn't finish all cars in time for homologation so the only first 4-5 cars in this picture had an engine and transmission in them.

[flemke]

Storer said:

Porsche have a lot of experience getting 'fat' cars to handle and go like stink (think Cayenne & Panamera).

Fit and finish should be good too, as would ergonomics. Might be the 'cheapest' to service/maintain as well.

Not sure it will make you feel as "special" as either of the others. Sensible but not "special". These are not everyday cars after all!

Of course, the only way I would truly know is by trying them all, and that is never going to happen.

Paul

I can assure you that neither the Carrera GT nor the 918 feels very sensible!

[The Moose]

flemke said:

Storer said:

Porsche have a lot of experience getting 'fat' cars to handle and go like stink (think Cayenne & Panamera).

Fit and finish should be good too, as would ergonomics. Might be the 'cheapest' to service/maintain as well.

Not sure it will make you feel as "special" as either of the others. Sensible but not "special". These are not everyday cars after all!

Of course, the only way I would truly know is by trying them all, and that is never going to happen.

Paul

I can assure you that neither the Carrera GT nor the 918 feels very sensible!

Have you treated yourself to one/both?!

[AlmostUseful]

isaldiri said:

flemke said:

That possibility had not occurred to me, probably because it seems so incredibly mean. Without paying extra for a special "plate", there is no visible record of a car's chassis number?

This comes as standard I believe.

Maybe they're trying to have as few of the "limited to 500" plates as possible, so when they make 650 of them there won't be so many people upset by it!

[CanAm]

EricE said:

Joe911 said:

I think Porsche are pretty honest on build numbers, exclusivity, etc. - right?




They do sometimes take the piss on options ... want your 918 key in the same paint as your car ... £1000, apparently.

Fun fact: Piech and his crew couldn't finish all cars in time for homologation so the only first 4-5 cars in this picture had an engine and transmission in them.

I seem to recall that the FIA Inspectors at the time were invited to start up any of the cars of their choice. They were all complete but hurriedly assembled and were later stripped and race prepared.

[flemke]

The Moose said:

flemke said:

Storer said:

Porsche have a lot of experience getting 'fat' cars to handle and go like stink (think Cayenne & Panamera).

Fit and finish should be good too, as would ergonomics. Might be the 'cheapest' to service/maintain as well.

Not sure it will make you feel as "special" as either of the others. Sensible but not "special". These are not everyday cars after all!

Of course, the only way I would truly know is by trying them all, and that is never going to happen.

Paul

I can assure you that neither the Carrera GT nor the 918 feels very sensible!

Have you treated yourself to one/both?!

Have had a CGT from new (but not crazy about it). Do not have a 918 but was very impressed by one in recent drive and since then have been seriously considering it.

[isaldiri]

flemke said:

Have had a CGT from new (but not crazy about it). Do not have a 918 but was very impressed by one in recent drive and since then have been seriously considering it.

How would you say the 918 compares to the CGT (per above am guessing you liked the 918 better)? Almost completely different cars in ethos of course but i guess not too different to the P1 and F1 either.