Bought a rot box, how much to fix?
Discussion
jamieduff1981 said:
I expect you know this, but the front lower control arms on the ST200 are not common with any other Mondeo. They are however shared with the Cougar, and the UKCougar forum always have the best leads on control arm prices because they are steep compared to normal Mondeo ones which have bushes orientated differently and are incompatible with ST200 / Cougar subframes.
You'll need a bolt set as well for them, as unless you want to drop the subframe (I've done it loads and it's bit of a faff) you'll be sawing the bolt heads off and fitting the replacements upside down.
Yes, I've had a look at Ford Parts UK and they seem competitive, but will check out the Cougar forums too.You'll need a bolt set as well for them, as unless you want to drop the subframe (I've done it loads and it's bit of a faff) you'll be sawing the bolt heads off and fitting the replacements upside down.
Regarding the lowering of the sub frame, the garage that I've been looking at are the type to do very much a proper job, they were on about dropping the sub-frame. Is it really just as good to bolt them up from the bottom? I guess you need the locking bolts of course? I thought I remember reading somewhere that it gave a result which wasn't quite right, although I've no idea how side it's bolted from could make any odds!
Mr2Mike said:
VolvoT5 said:
Well I think you are bonkers, absolutely bonkers. For that kind of money you could buy an already appreciating classic or decent modern hot hatch / saloon.
If your head and bank account rule everything you do in life then you are probably a really miserable old sod.The car is already bought and paid for (£2,400)
I had some work done before I realised quite how expensive it was going to get... (£700)
So before we start, the car owes me £3,100 but with holes in the floor and worn suspension it's worth about £500 as spare or repair.
My choice now is to either spend about £3,000 to get it right (which will mean it's worth about £2,500 lol) OR;
Scrap it, collect the £500 and crystallise an immediate £2,600 loss.
If I do that I then need to go and find a car for £3,500 (the £3K repair fund + £500 of scrap money) that floats my boat and won't have lots of problem. Far easier said than done.
So there you go, there's the man maths which proves that although this has been a total disaster, I'm better off seeing it through than I am scrapping it!
If I keep the car for two years then it'll work out cheaper than buying a new Focus for the equivalent period of time...
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
skyrover said:
I suppose it depends on how broken your moral compass is.
Heh...morals - selling second hand cars?Hmmm.
Finding out that it has a laundry list of problems underneath, then watching in awe as the suspension went from "fine" to "borked" in the space of a few weeks and the engine developed a miss that was absolutely not there when I picked it up was a bit of a kick in the tits to be quite honest. (I think a good chunk of this may well be down to the car having done relatively low mileage and then suddenly I've started using it...)
For the avoidance of doubt, and to prove I'm not mental, if I'd known this would happen I'd never have bought it, I'm now just trying to make the best of a bad job.
carbonblack said:
Would you mind sharing which BMW Specialist you rate so highly? I am in Sussex so interested to find someone who is recommended.
Thanks
Certainly, it's Walkers Autotech in Wisburgh Green.Thanks
They look after my mate's E60 M5, they seem to have an uncanny ability to know everything about the car, and their showroom stock is amongst the cleanest I've ever seen.
For some reason I haven't seen anything hinting that there were extra replies to my thread, I thought it had died off!
Ya_b
ks and jhfozzy - looks like really good work, I really wish that I had the time, space, and skills to do it myself to that standard! You must love the 6 fozzy...
Ya_bks - what is the car and roughly how much is that level of rebuild setting the owner back?! 
Unfortunately the only reason that I've come back to the thread is to report that I've given in.
I found a water leak in the passenger footwell on Monday, by yesterday I found the cause. It was a shoelace that was threaded through the bulkhead into the trim by the floor and had been used to wire a subwoofer by the previous owner. It was weird, but despite the bonnet end of the lace being dry, the water was obviously getting onto it somewhere near a drain, soaking down the lace and into the car. It was like a bloody reverse action straw.
Anyway, I pulled the carpet up as I was worried about how long this weird leak may have been going on for (previous owner garaged it and was a low miles user).
It's not pretty under there, one area has rotted through completely, and another is so rotten I'm sure it's all rust and no metal. The rest of the front passenger floor is bubbling up in all manner of places.
Anyway, long story short, the bodyshop confirmed that they hadn't included that in their £2K quote as it was hidden under the carpet and no one knew it was there. To add it is going to add a fortune to the bill (interior needs removing, new floor in the passenger side at least and you can bet it will just get worse).
I'm afraid on top of the existing bill, and the broken mechanicals, even my most wildly optimistic man maths can't make this add up and I'll be putting her up on eBay as a spare/repairs car.
Genuinely gutted, I feel like a plumb for not spotting this but have never made it a habit to tear up the carpet when viewing used cars (I may do now!).
Fortunately my parents still have my old (much younger!) Mondeo so I'm taking that back and will spend the rest of this year recouping the £2.5-£3K that I've lost.
Thanks for the moral support throughout guys and I'm just sorry I'm not posting up pictures of a finished project.
Ya_b
ks and jhfozzy - looks like really good work, I really wish that I had the time, space, and skills to do it myself to that standard! You must love the 6 fozzy...Ya_b
ks - what is the car and roughly how much is that level of rebuild setting the owner back?! Unfortunately the only reason that I've come back to the thread is to report that I've given in.
I found a water leak in the passenger footwell on Monday, by yesterday I found the cause. It was a shoelace that was threaded through the bulkhead into the trim by the floor and had been used to wire a subwoofer by the previous owner. It was weird, but despite the bonnet end of the lace being dry, the water was obviously getting onto it somewhere near a drain, soaking down the lace and into the car. It was like a bloody reverse action straw.
Anyway, I pulled the carpet up as I was worried about how long this weird leak may have been going on for (previous owner garaged it and was a low miles user).
It's not pretty under there, one area has rotted through completely, and another is so rotten I'm sure it's all rust and no metal. The rest of the front passenger floor is bubbling up in all manner of places.
Anyway, long story short, the bodyshop confirmed that they hadn't included that in their £2K quote as it was hidden under the carpet and no one knew it was there. To add it is going to add a fortune to the bill (interior needs removing, new floor in the passenger side at least and you can bet it will just get worse).
I'm afraid on top of the existing bill, and the broken mechanicals, even my most wildly optimistic man maths can't make this add up and I'll be putting her up on eBay as a spare/repairs car.
Genuinely gutted, I feel like a plumb for not spotting this but have never made it a habit to tear up the carpet when viewing used cars (I may do now!).
Fortunately my parents still have my old (much younger!) Mondeo so I'm taking that back and will spend the rest of this year recouping the £2.5-£3K that I've lost.
Thanks for the moral support throughout guys and I'm just sorry I'm not posting up pictures of a finished project.
skyrover said:
Would it not be possible to simply find another mondeo saloon and transfer the bits over?
Here's one with only 42,000 miles on and looks in really good shape
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Mondeo-Only-42000-m...
It would be possible, but not particularly desirable to be honest. It'd never be a "real one" in most people's eyes, plus I have no space, skills or tools to do it myself either. Besides, I'd feel bad for killing what actually looks like a lovely Si!Here's one with only 42,000 miles on and looks in really good shape
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Mondeo-Only-42000-m...
Edited by skyrover on Wednesday 27th January 21:34
Kitchski said:
The bodyshop can't afford to fix the additional problems for free, and you the customer might not be able to pay for the additional problems to be fixed.
Yeah that's why I got straight onto the bodyshop to avoid this cropping up during the work, I had a feeling they wouldn't have spotted it as the actual hole is very small, and the rest of the damage is hidden by carpet.Thanks for the continued moral support guys, and it's reassuring to see that I'm not the only one
Going to stick to younger, better rustproofed cars for a while, I just don't have the energy to put into anything that could throw this level of trouble up, not for a daily driver.
Plan is hopefully to spend a while paying off my current loan and then go on the hunt for a MK4 2.5T perhaps. It's all a bit up in the air really.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Mondeo-Mk2-ST200-Sa...
Hmm, I'm seriously tempted. I must be bloody insane.
I see the magic word "Waxoyl" in the description...
Hmm, I'm seriously tempted. I must be bloody insane.
I see the magic word "Waxoyl" in the description...
UK345 said:
Well one way to look at it is you have a perfect donor car so could buy that one and salvage bits off the other one ?
I think that just about every part of the car advertised is probably in better order than the parts on mine. Going to speak to the seller, although will struggle to get up to view it soon...Thanks for the continued support, but I'm afraid it's fate is sealed, the bill escalated north of £3.5K and I can buy one in better condition for under £2.5K.
As for learning to MIG weld, that would be awesome, but it's my daily driver, I work full time, and live in a flat with no garage. It's never going to happen. Upon pulling the carpet up I can see the road through the floor, maybe I'm just over-sensitive but that doesn't feel safe to me so it's a job that really needs doing quickly!
Anyway, moving things up a couple of generations I have been googling the MK4 with the 2.5T Volvo engine and I like what I see, big returns from a remap, and I can buy one for about the same price as fixing the ST...
Until I have a driveway, and room for a second car, I think I may be done with older "classics". The whole experience has been just too painful!
As for learning to MIG weld, that would be awesome, but it's my daily driver, I work full time, and live in a flat with no garage. It's never going to happen. Upon pulling the carpet up I can see the road through the floor, maybe I'm just over-sensitive but that doesn't feel safe to me so it's a job that really needs doing quickly!
Anyway, moving things up a couple of generations I have been googling the MK4 with the 2.5T Volvo engine and I like what I see, big returns from a remap, and I can buy one for about the same price as fixing the ST...
Until I have a driveway, and room for a second car, I think I may be done with older "classics". The whole experience has been just too painful!
Honestly I'm out of love with it now, even a cheap patch job (by far the cheapest I got quoted) was £800 and that was before I found the hole in the floor which means additional expense, then there's £1,000 - £1,500 worth of mechanicals. I don't really want the cheap job on the arches etc either because frankly I know what I'm like, if the paint is less than perfect it'll annoy the hell out of me every time I see it.
Also, the patch job quote opened with "obviously that bodykit may not go back on properly afterwards and they sometimes break when we pull them off, that ok?". No it fking isn't actually.
The bodyshop who were going to do it (until I found the holes in the floor pan) told me that in their opinion the car isn't worth the expense and I'd be better off buying a new one!
ETA - my bodywork bill was originally £2K for new sills, arches, patched spare wheel well, and a respray down to the front doors. It's the mechanicals that bumped me up to £3.5K.
Also, the patch job quote opened with "obviously that bodykit may not go back on properly afterwards and they sometimes break when we pull them off, that ok?". No it f
king isn't actually.The bodyshop who were going to do it (until I found the holes in the floor pan) told me that in their opinion the car isn't worth the expense and I'd be better off buying a new one!
ETA - my bodywork bill was originally £2K for new sills, arches, patched spare wheel well, and a respray down to the front doors. It's the mechanicals that bumped me up to £3.5K.
OK I thought it's only fair that I give an update to this thread as things haven't turned out how I thought they would at all....
Not long after my last update my best mates essentially cornered me in a pincer movement whilst I was in the pub one night, they had a well rehearsed argument that it would be silly to sell up (for buttons) after spending so much on a car that I had always wanted.
They suggested another garage that they thought could weld the car to a decent standard underneath (albeit hardly concourse), and get the bulk of the mechanical work done as cheaply as humanly possible. They explained that I shouldn't expect to get my car perfect but could have a fun year or two from it if I just accepted the slightly rusty arches and focused on getting it running right and MOT'd.
I'd had a couple, so their argument seemed to make sense (let this be a lesson kids)
Upshot is that I ended up getting a batch of work done to sort out the worst of the issues, and am slowly falling back in love with the car. I've never had a car that has attracted any comments, questions or admiration in public from strangers or even colleagues before, but it's happened three or four times recently, and I like it.
There's still a little bit of stuff left to do to resolve a misfire and EGR fault code that I think are related, but I think I'm on course to get a year or two from her at least (I bloody need to now).
The only BIG mistake I've made (other than buying it in the first place) was to take one of the same friends shopping for a new head unit. I went in thinking of a cheap upgrade and some basic door speakers, I walked out of the shop with a quote for a £2K audio install and my ears ringing from the highest fidelity sound system I've ever heard. The demo was absolutely mind blowing, and it even retains my OEM unit. I have to have it, although I'm not doing anything until the car is running spot on.
So, it makes no sense, but I guess these poor decisions come with being a true petrolhead?
Maybe it's time to start a thread in readers cars as I don't feel right continuing to update a thread that has "rotbox" in the title lol. Thanks for bearing with me and all the moral support.
Not long after my last update my best mates essentially cornered me in a pincer movement whilst I was in the pub one night, they had a well rehearsed argument that it would be silly to sell up (for buttons) after spending so much on a car that I had always wanted.
They suggested another garage that they thought could weld the car to a decent standard underneath (albeit hardly concourse), and get the bulk of the mechanical work done as cheaply as humanly possible. They explained that I shouldn't expect to get my car perfect but could have a fun year or two from it if I just accepted the slightly rusty arches and focused on getting it running right and MOT'd.
I'd had a couple, so their argument seemed to make sense (let this be a lesson kids)
Upshot is that I ended up getting a batch of work done to sort out the worst of the issues, and am slowly falling back in love with the car. I've never had a car that has attracted any comments, questions or admiration in public from strangers or even colleagues before, but it's happened three or four times recently, and I like it.
There's still a little bit of stuff left to do to resolve a misfire and EGR fault code that I think are related, but I think I'm on course to get a year or two from her at least (I bloody need to now).
The only BIG mistake I've made (other than buying it in the first place) was to take one of the same friends shopping for a new head unit. I went in thinking of a cheap upgrade and some basic door speakers, I walked out of the shop with a quote for a £2K audio install and my ears ringing from the highest fidelity sound system I've ever heard. The demo was absolutely mind blowing, and it even retains my OEM unit. I have to have it, although I'm not doing anything until the car is running spot on.
So, it makes no sense, but I guess these poor decisions come with being a true petrolhead?
Maybe it's time to start a thread in readers cars as I don't feel right continuing to update a thread that has "rotbox" in the title lol. Thanks for bearing with me and all the moral support.
TooMany2cvs said:
Good. You've got time to sober up...
You walked into a shop to buy a head unit (just buy online from caraudioexpress, btw) and some speakers, and walked out wanting to spend TWO GRAND on audio in a car that you expect to get a year out of? Without even changing the head unit...?!?
Is it me?
You didn't hear it. I've honestly never heard audio like it in any car (or house) I've ever been in. It blows my mate's Harmon Kardon equipped Jag out of the water, completely.You walked into a shop to buy a head unit (just buy online from caraudioexpress, btw) and some speakers, and walked out wanting to spend TWO GRAND on audio in a car that you expect to get a year out of? Without even changing the head unit...?!?
Is it me?
He did say that by keeping my original head unit there would be a small difference, but nothing noticeably worse than the demo, and I'd rather keep the OEM look if I can.
I know I'm mental but the repairs are done now so I've got to get a year out of it at least, the audio upgrade will wait, but I know what I want.
As my mate put it when he was continuing to be a bad influence, the car is a hobby and it's not as though I spend money on smoking or drugs, so why not treat myself
k-ink said:
After skimming this thread it has confirmed to me what a good idea a Lotus is for a long term keeper: just aluminium and plastic, with no rusty steel issues.
Good luck, sounds like a mission.
Yep, Lotus will definitely be a good shout! I've resigned myself to the fact that ALL examples of my car now have rot to be dealt with...Good luck, sounds like a mission.
TooMany2cvs said:
But you're taking two grand AWAY from spending on the car, to spend on the stereo in it. Is the stereo the highest priority for this car?
Well, £1500 is parts and £500 is labour for the installation so actually, quite a lot of it is transferable to the next car albeit there'll probably be a £600 labour charge next time to remove and refit in a new car (or a lot less if I just choose to remove the kit and not refit)Edited by TooMany2cvs on Friday 18th March 13:34
The stereo is definitely not the priority as I say, I won't buy it until the car is basically sound.
My mate may beat me to it anyway, despite him having a Logic 7 equipped M5 he's actually considering having it ripped out to replace it with this aftermarket speaker setup (he can't see me have anything nice lol)
Rick1.8t said:
No disrespect but you sound slightly mental... A £2K stereo system in Mondeo that is rotten and not mechanically sound, great idea!
None taken, I clearly am to have bought it in the first place, I sold an immaculate A4 Cabriolet to get it!I would say however that it's not rotten anymore, most of that stuff has been repaired just fine, and the mechanical problems seem to be on course to get fixed too
I'm far from rich, but most people with my income have far more expensive cars on finance (hell, even a new Fiesta would cost me more than double the total cost of this little project and no one would bat an eyelid at me spending money on one) so I don't see it as a huge outlay for something that is so much fun (when it works)...
UK345 said:
Your mate obviously noticed that you never had a belt on. He probably tells his mates how mental he thinks you are. With a sound system like that all the local bruvs will be "innit".
No, he's actually a big Ford fan and was the one who encouraged me in the strongest terms to buy the car in the first place, he loves it. As for the local bruvs, I don't care what they think, any additions I make to the car are for my benefit Vaud said:
Monty Python said:
All in-car systems sound great in the shop - it's only when they're fitted into the car that you find out just how good (or bad) they are. After all, most of the time you've got engine/tyre/wind noise, so what's the point of spending thousands on something that'll only sound decent when you've stopped.
This.Might apply to a silky quiet Lexus or Audi A8 with double glazing. But not a rot box.
As I say, the sound system won't be bought until the car is sorted both bodily and mechanically, so no rust holes to poke the cable through I'm afraid
Just realised I didn't answer my own question, the cost to do all the welding was in the region of £300, although I can't be sure as I didn't get an itemised invoice, I actually paid £1,150 for-
New clutch and slave (Ford part)
X2 New Ball joints
New brake caliper and front pads
The welding
New coil pack, sparks, and HT leads
I thought it was reasonable value.
New clutch and slave (Ford part)
X2 New Ball joints
New brake caliper and front pads
The welding
New coil pack, sparks, and HT leads
I thought it was reasonable value.
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