'Organised' cycle racing on the roads ...

[Diderot]

DocSteve said:

Diderot said:

DocSteve said:

tinman0 said:

DocSteve said:

Good post! Yes - I did the Etape du Tour a few years back alongside Alain Prost.

So? A few F1 drivers cycle for fitness and pleasure. Makes no difference.

Everyone is determined to put the needs of the cyclist above those of the motorist. My point that I made in the other thread is that as road users we are all equal, we share the road, and we respect other users of the road.

If you are unable to see yourself as an equal, if you are unable to share the road, and if you are unable to respect other roads users needs, then you should not be on the road, pretending that your right exceeds everyone elses.

The point that was being made is that it is possible not to be so blinkered, and the fact that drivers far more accomplished than yourself enjoy the sport to keep fit and aren't "rogered up the arse" by lycra-clad cyclists as you so elegantly put it.

Respecting other road users is key to this argument and I do not believe that such vitriol against cyclists is showing any degree of respect whatsoever. I maintain that cyclists rarely impede progress of motorists and those motorists who are regularly inconvenienced by cyclists probably need to reevaluate their driving skills.

I love a good hoon in my car (unlike some cyclists who have the polar opposite, and equally blinkered, viewpoint to yourself) and also use my car as a mode of transport. I have occasionally been annoyed by cyclists riding without lights, riding on the pavement etc but mainly due to the fact that I don't want be responsible for killing these fools. These people are usually not cycling enthusiasts but the irresponsible section of society who would also drive a car with no MOT and whilst drunk. Not a property of cyclists, just idiots in general.

Ranting about racing cyclists here is just plain ridiculous. I joined PH as a motoring enthusiast to discuss cars and driving - I'm disappointed to discover such a level of intolerance for others here and suggest that perhaps you should consider the facts before you post misinformed and offensive nonsense about a sport which is starting to excel in the UK.

If anyone could let us know the details of a motorist who has been killed or seriously injured by a cyclist, do carry on. Otherwise, can this thread be wrapped up??

I'm sorry Doc Steve but there's absolutely no vitriol being aimed at cyclists here. It maybe too subtle a point (since this is probably the 4th or 5th iteration of it) and clearly you're feeling victimised but as it states very clearly in the opening post, it's whether so-called 'organised' cycle racing is appropriate on very busy open A roads. A few small notices and one or two 'marshalls' does not an organised and safe event make. Either get the road closed-off completely, or take the event to a track like everyone else who wants to race.

Oh, and with regard to your closing paragraph, a quick google... remember, it's not just motorists, motorcyclists and cyclists who are entitled to go about their lives on busy A roads; people have houses on them, businesses on them, and walk on the pavements next to them

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/art...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-234...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/hert...

Edited by Diderot on Tuesday 24th March 08:22

Edited by Diderot on Tuesday 24th March 08:25

Your point may not have involved any vitriol but there have been some pretty offensive posts on here about the sport in general.

None of those links showed that the cyclists were involved in an organised race. All those links prove is that there are some pretty stupid people around - riding on the pavement at 25mph for example.

There will be plenty of people who have opinions about cars, such as any car capable of over 70mph should be banned etc etc. I suspect neither of us would want that although it could certainly be argued that this is more sensible than banning cycle racing on the highway. Perspective required.

Anyway - you want it banned, I don't. Not sure we'll get much further with the debate.

No, you misunderstand me, I don't want road racing banned at all (and have never said that); my point is that it should be properly organised either on closed roads or on a track (even the thread title alludes to that). I don't think it does or will do the sport any favours whatever if it continues competing for road space on major A roads at very busy times. Can you just imagine the Daily Mail outcry if, god forbid, a pedestrian or any other road user is killed by a cyclist who is racing?

[Diderot]

Maybe it's the lycra; maybe it's the incessant ingestion of carbon monoxide; or maybe it's a genetic throwback? One thing I do know is that I am astonished that the cycling fraternity that are represented here still fail to see the difference between riding and racing.

No one is attempting to curtail either your right to ride a bike or indeed ban racing on the road. It is simply a question of whether road races should take place on (very busy) A roads, at very busy times, when all manner of other vehicles and road users (of varying ages and skill sets) are sharing the same space. That's it! That's the kernel of the debate.

[Diderot]

coupeboy said:

Diderot said:

It is simply a question of whether road races should take place on (very busy) A roads, at very busy times, when all manner of other vehicles and road users (of varying ages and skill sets) are sharing the same space. That's it! That's the kernel of the debate.

I would define mid week rush hours as very busy times, considering most road races take place in the evening or weekend then it's suffice to say they are not taking place during very busy times.

As for busy A roads, less than 20% of a road course will be A roads and if there are any A roads they will be quieter ones and not dual carraigeways.

So you're saying that the A29; A24 and A27 are not busy roads then on Sundays?

[Diderot]

coupeboy said:

Diderot said:

coupeboy said:

Diderot said:

It is simply a question of whether road races should take place on (very busy) A roads, at very busy times, when all manner of other vehicles and road users (of varying ages and skill sets) are sharing the same space. That's it! That's the kernel of the debate.

I would define mid week rush hours as very busy times, considering most road races take place in the evening or weekend then it's suffice to say they are not taking place during very busy times.

As for busy A roads, less than 20% of a road course will be A roads and if there are any A roads they will be quieter ones and not dual carraigeways.

So you're saying that the A29; A24 and A27 are not busy roads then on Sundays?

No I'm not saying that, I don't know how busy they are I live in the Midlands. But they are most likely quieter on Sundays than during the week when they would be 'very busy A roads'.

Precisely. You don't know for example that the A29 and A24 on a 'quiet' Sunday is full of (stunt) motorcyclists, riding in packs, on their way to either Whiteways or Box Hill, plus loads and loads of cars, a few strategically placed horse boxes, and on the A29 in particular precious few opportunities to overtake. We're not talking about quiet back roads here; these are the Major routes from parts of the South Coast to London.

[Diderot]

heebeegeetee said:

Alfanatic said:

Others have expressed an alternative view that the race should be either banned outright or banned in principle, because either a) they have / might slow someone in a car down, b) they are perceived as unsafe, or c) apparently noone else is allowed to race on the road. Most of the argument on the thread has been centred around the alternative view.

People should be aware that motorsport is allowed to take place on the road, and bloody good fun it is too. I ain't saying no more though 'cos they'll be looking to ban it. And if the cycling safety rate ever gets within say, 1% of the cars casualty rate, shall we start discussing safety then but not before?

People moan because this country goes shopping en masse on a Sunday, they moan because people watch too much tv, they moan because people are too fat, they moan because people are too lazy, but the moment they find a group of people doing none of these things, they moan. Perhaps that's what it's all about really.

But the roads are closed for motorsport; we're not talking about a major A road open to all traffic at busy times.

[Diderot]

new in today said:

Diderot said:

coupeboy said:

Diderot said:

coupeboy said:

Diderot said:

It is simply a question of whether road races should take place on (very busy) A roads, at very busy times, when all manner of other vehicles and road users (of varying ages and skill sets) are sharing the same space. That's it! That's the kernel of the debate.

I would define mid week rush hours as very busy times, considering most road races take place in the evening or weekend then it's suffice to say they are not taking place during very busy times.

As for busy A roads, less than 20% of a road course will be A roads and if there are any A roads they will be quieter ones and not dual carraigeways.

So you're saying that the A29; A24 and A27 are not busy roads then on Sundays?

No I'm not saying that, I don't know how busy they are I live in the Midlands. But they are most likely quieter on Sundays than during the week when they would be 'very busy A roads'.

Precisely. You don't know for example that the A29 and A24 on a 'quiet' Sunday is full of (stunt) motorcyclists, riding in packs, on their way to either Whiteways or Box Hill, plus loads and loads of cars, a few strategically placed horse boxes, and on the A29 in particular precious few opportunities to overtake. We're not talking about quiet back roads here; these are the Major routes from parts of the South Coast to London.

Going back to your OP it would seem the race was a time trial.

I have to agree. I don't understand what they were thinking either. I think this debate should be more slanted towards wether to ban time trials rather than wether to ban massed start racing.

I for one would be happy to see time trials moved off dual carriageways and a roads.

That would ruin the BBAR competition though but I would replace it a series of specified events where the times are added up consecutively just like how the Tour is decided.

Whtever it was on the A27 or the A29/A24 it matters not; the riders, riding on a busy A road had one objective: winning and riding as fast as possible. If they're going to be doing that on an A road with 30s, 40s, 50s and NSLs and loads of roundabouts and full of all manner of vehicles (including other cyclists), then they need to close the road off (either completely or having rolling block).

[Diderot]

heebeegeetee said:

Diderot said:

Whtever it was on the A27 or the A29/A24 it matters not; the riders, riding on a busy A road had one objective: winning and riding as fast as possible. If they're going to be doing that on an A road with 30s, 40s, 50s and NSLs and loads of roundabouts and full of all manner of vehicles (including other cyclists), then they need to close the road off (either completely or having rolling block).

But why?!

You seem to be taking the typical British approach to safety, vis: ban anything that looks unsafe, in complete disregard to all available statistics and information which shows in the clearest way possible that it emphatically isn't.

Jesus wept man. Let me reiterate... I'm not saying that cycle racing/time trialling should be banned, just that it should take place on closed roads. Can you not get that concept into your skull?

[Diderot]

Balmoral Green said:

Anyway, we are now on twenty pages, are the results in?

Who has pissed the furthest?

I think, judging by his level of comprehension, that Heebeegeebee is pissed.

[Diderot]

carbonjunkie said:

Diderot said:

heebeegeetee said:

Diderot said:

Whtever it was on the A27 or the A29/A24 it matters not; the riders, riding on a busy A road had one objective: winning and riding as fast as possible. If they're going to be doing that on an A road with 30s, 40s, 50s and NSLs and loads of roundabouts and full of all manner of vehicles (including other cyclists), then they need to close the road off (either completely or having rolling block).

But why?!

You seem to be taking the typical British approach to safety, vis: ban anything that looks unsafe, in complete disregard to all available statistics and information which shows in the clearest way possible that it emphatically isn't.

Jesus wept man. Let me reiterate... I'm not saying that cycle racing/time trialling should be banned, just that it should take place on closed roads. Can you not get that concept into your skull?

I thought we had established that what you had come across was a club run, not a race?

It was a fecking race. The riders had numbers on. There were some small placards saying 'caution cycle race in progress' and there were some 'marshalls' dotted around on deckchairs. So I think we can safely conclude that a race was taking place.

Jesus. Cycling might be good for your quads and cardiovascular system, but detrimental to verbal reasoning, logic and cognitive capacity.