RE: Lotus: we're keeping going

[Shotgun Rider]

1981linley said:

Sales figures from elsewhere are quoted at 2700 vehicles last year...meeting company targets. Your figure as qouted by Bahar relates only to the Exige, which will always sell in low volume due to it's hardcore track focused nature. Let's say the average Lotus sold retails at £30,000 ( a very conservative estimate given this is only the cost of a basic Elise ) that multiplied by 2700 equates to a turnover of over £80,000,000! That is not bad for a small firm from Hethel. How many Zondas at £1,500,000 each does Mr Pagani sell each year I wonder, yet no one is questioning their survival.

Take note of marshalla's post.

Since when has turnover reflected the chance of survival of a business?

The MGRover group had a turnover of £1.5 billion in 2000. Where are they today? GM had a turnover of $149 billion in 2008, didn't stop them going cap in hand to the US government.

[Gizmo!]

Scuffers said:

like to see the evidence/data to back the 2,700 figure up?, total UK reg were something like 311, so even assuming none of them were demo/prototypes/factory cars that still leaves 2,400 for export, somewhat stretching it I would suggest?

and if sales are on target, how come the production line is currently on hold and has been for a while now?

311 sounds more like what I'd heard...

[Scuffers]

before or after all the money required for F1, Indy, WRC, LMP, etc.?

[1981linley]

Production line has stopped due to a 60 day period of transition required under Malaysian regulations due to the transfer of ownership from Proton to DRB Hicom.

Quote, "Progress at Hethel will slow over the next two months ... because Malaysian law entails a 60-day change-of-ownership process, during which time Lotus will not have access to previously agreed Proton funds." autocar.

[1981linley]

Shotgun Rider said:

Take note of marshalla's post.

Since when has turnover reflected the chance of survival of a business?

The MGRover group had a turnover of £1.5 billion in 2000. Where are they today? GM had a turnover of $149 billion in 2008, didn't stop them going cap in hand to the US government.

Stop. Think. "Since when has turnover reflected the chance of survival of a business"....well, a business would not last long without any turnover. I think you mean high turnover does not necessarily mean profitability...but it helps!

[KelWedge]

Silly comment but,

New Cars on the way equals New and changed production lines, so things have to slow for a bit.

[1981linley]

Gizmo! said:

Scuffers said:

like to see the evidence/data to back the 2,700 figure up?, total UK reg were something like 311, so even assuming none of them were demo/prototypes/factory cars that still leaves 2,400 for export, somewhat stretching it I would suggest?

and if sales are on target, how come the production line is currently on hold and has been for a while now?

311 sounds more like what I'd heard...

"Bahar said Lotus is continuing to sell around 2700 cars a year and has met every one of its timetable and turnover targets. As a result, a recent visit to Lotus by Proton’s top management was “routine, with no surprises”.
Bahar made his comments ahead of Asian investment firms reporting that Proton should sell Lotus over the Christmas period. As a vote of confidence, Proton bosses have extended Bahar’s own contract until at least 2015."
Source Autocar.

If Bahar had lied then surely Proton would have rumbled him and not extended his contract. Equally, tax man may end up asking some questions if company accounts don't match published sales figures. Why would he lie? Lotus is doing fine. Under the new owners Hicom they should do even better....Hicom are bigger than Proton ever were...largest conglomerate in Malaysia with a 6.1bn Malaysian Ringgit turnover I.e. £1.2bn, 14,000 employees and partially state owned. They already manufacture Hondas and Mercedes under licence.

[Vladimir]

The new V6 Exige looks utterly brilliant.

I want one.

[Gizmo!]

I really can't be bothered to get ino a protracted discussion. And I do think that DRBHicom are a good company to be part of.

But at the risk of saying something controversial on a website owned by Haymarket, Bahar slides like a snake and hisses like a snake. I wouldn't believe a thing he says.

[Richard330s]

esada said:

zebedee said:

you obviously bought a dog of an S1 then, well done! Personally I spent a bit of time looking for a decent one and have done 24,000 miles with only a failed clutch slave cylinder. And I've just read a review about a Porsche Cayenne in EVO where the sat nav failed in 24 hours of delivery and was replaced 3 times in 50000 miles, the opening glass in the tailgate refused to shut, then the whole tailgate wouldn't lock, then a front air suspension unit collapsed. Now that is a POS.

I bought one of the first S1s. They were all st, all leaked like sieves, and probably still do.

All manufacturers have Monday morning and Friday afternoon cars, but imo Lotus have been consistently st since about 1975.

I also owned a Giugaro Esprit Turbo briefly in about 1992. That was lovely when the gearchange linkage worked, but that wasn't very often.

Like I said, just my opinion.

We all appreciate the constructive criticism.

Thanks Danny B

[mechadaniel]

1981linley said:

Sales figures from elsewhere are quoted at 2700 vehicles last year...meeting company targets?

Huh? Where did those sales figures come from, that is so far from the accepted figures that is sounds like pure fantasy.

1981linley said:

"Bahar said Lotus is continuing to sell around 2700 cars a year and has met every one of its timetable and turnover targets.

Ah, OK, so pure fantasy then.

1981linley said:

For me it is better for Lotus, at least in terms of image, to be disassociated with Proton, whose KIA (but worse) kind of image diminished the brand. Let's hope a rich Arab, Russian or Indian (even Mr Tata) comes in with the cash...

Yeah, that worked out really well for TVR.

1981linley said:

Rumour also has it that the Luxembourg based company behind the Lotus formula 1 team are currently studying the books with a view to taking over...

Right... So lets get this straight, the "Luxembourg based company behind the Lotus formula 1" who in:

2010 F1 season - Ran out of money half way through the season and had to be bailed out with an advance of TV money.

2011 F1 season - ran out of money half way through the season and had to be bailed out by Group Lotus renegotiating their advertising contract and covering the car in logo's.

You seriously think that halfway through the 2012 season they are going to return the favour and bail out Group Lotus?

Come on Bahar, we know it is you

[harryowl]

mechadaniel said:

1981linley said:

Sales figures from elsewhere are quoted at 2700 vehicles last year...meeting company targets?

Huh? Where did those sales figures come from, that is so far from the accepted figures that is sounds like pure fantasy.

The figure of 300 odd that most people quote is UK sales only...

[1981linley]

Impressive...established authors have been quoted less.

2700 is a figure published in several leading car publications. You can't just go off the circa 300 UK registrations and think that's it for Lotus in terms of sales. There are dozens of countries in which Lotus has hundreds of dealers in total..look at the extensive dealership network on the Lotus plc website. If those dealerships were not selling cars they would pull out of the Lotus franchise.

[Shotgun Rider]

mechadaniel said:

1981linley said:

Sales figures from elsewhere are quoted at 2700 vehicles last year...meeting company targets?

Huh? Where did those sales figures come from, that is so far from the accepted figures that is sounds like pure fantasy.

1981linley said:

"Bahar said Lotus is continuing to sell around 2700 cars a year and has met every one of its timetable and turnover targets.

Ah, OK, so pure fantasy then.

Since when have facts been required in an internet discussion?

"Around 2,000" according to the Financial Times.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8f3211bc-541b-11e1-bacb-...

Edited by Shotgun Rider on Wednesday 15th February 20:16

[Dainty Ankles]

Scuffers said:

like to see the evidence/data to back the 2,700 figure up?, total UK reg were something like 311, so even assuming none of them were demo/prototypes/factory cars that still leaves 2,400 for export, somewhat stretching it I would suggest?

and if sales are on target, how come the production line is currently on hold and has been for a while now?

UK makes up approx. 10% of production, especially low for 2011 when the Elise/Exige (2ZZ) were no longer euro compliant. You're right to be dubious as it used to be 60-70%!

[WTFWT]

Hmmm... I am surprised to hear this. Having spoken to several people in the know, it seemed that Lotus would be disposed of by the new owners.

The cold facts suggest that McLaren spent c.£450m developing the MP4-12C and struggled to get it right straight out of the box. Lotus is trying to do 5 cars on the same budget?!

My money says Shanghai Motor Company owns Lotus within 12 months. I would dearly love to be wrong though as I like everything they build to a greater or lesser extent. Don't own one though...

[Sortie 10]

marshalla said:

Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity.

And to complete the accountancy expression, cash is reality...

[Dodgey_Rog]

Can't we actually wait and see if this plan works, rather than speculate, every thread about Lotus goes down the same path. Change the record please?

[Ozzie Osmond]

Sortie 10 said:

marshalla said:

Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity.

And to complete the accountancy expression, cash is reality...

That's all jolly clever stuff. But if they've stopped the production line there's probably,

• No turnover
• No profit, and
• No cash

.... unless of course they've built a big pile of "unsold" cars which are miraculously going to "sell" in the next few weeks. Perhaps a Greek entrepreneur will snap them up?

[Scuffers]

and, as if by magic!

Lotus will be sponsoring no fewer than four cars in the German ATS Formula 3 Cup this year...


http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/02/15/the-ever...