Discussion
sjg said:
Performance-wise, there are some very interesting possibilities - once you remove the mechanical link between steering wheel and the wheels themselves you can control them independently.
Some kind of dynamic Ackermann / anti-Ackermann (for when really pressing on)? Would be very interesting indeed, but who knows what the feedback would be like. But given that with electric racks the feedback essentially needs to be programmed anyway, it's not a huge leap. Ditching the steering column would eliminate the need for collapsing columns and no doubt the characteristics available would please people who otherwise struggle to park even a new Ford Ka (witnessed this at the weekend), and the engineers trying to package and control interesting hybrid powertrains.But it's not for me by a long shot, non-PAS being by far the best feel I've ever encountered. More technology for the sake of it I fear.
kambites said:
Dynamic toe adjustment? 
And how do they keep that correct at the minute? No more 5 minutes to get the tracking checked, instead you just have to hope that the computer is somehow getting it right all the time which I really doubt it will as that would require it having some sort of external measurement system.Nope all you'll get as its ultimately about cost saving and selling you features you don't need and dumbing it down for safety is a steering wheel like in this:
buggalugs said:
...no bumpsteer, more freedom to put the tie rods where you want them meaning more freedom on the layout of the front end.
I would hope (because I don't know for certain) that bump steer wouldn't be introduced into the suspension geometry in the first place; as far as I understand it's a direct function of the geometry of the suspension and its motion. It might be acceptable to eliminate bump-steer or roll-steer via a steer-by-wire rack, but to me it seems a very backwards way of going about designing the suspension. Rather than cover up a flaw, why not eliminate the flaw in the first place? Unless there is some significant advantage to be gained by doing so.Kozy said:
Stupid idea frankly. Assisted racks are one thing, this is another entirely. Why? Just Why? PAS is needed due to the increased weight, power and grip of modern cars, but there is no reason to remove the column, even more so when they have to keep it as a backup!
Stepping stones. Early ones will have this failsafe system - once trust is built in it they won't.They've been doing this in aircraft for decades, without mechanical backup. Why not cars?
sjg said:
They've been doing this in aircraft for decades, without mechanical backup. Why not cars?
Well for once thing air craft generally have rather more regular, more stringent safety checks than cars. I do agree though - it's probably the natural next step on the slow path to cars with no human control mechanism at all.
sjg said:
Stepping stones. Early ones will have this failsafe system - once trust is built in, they won't.
They've been doing this in aircraft for decades, without mechanical backup. Why not cars?
How does the system work in aircraft, is it just the landing gear or is it connected to the control surfaces while in the air as well? They've been doing this in aircraft for decades, without mechanical backup. Why not cars?
Big Fat Fatty said:
How does the system work in aircraft, is it just the landing gear or is it connected to the control surfaces while in the air as well?
Eurofighter doesn't have any mechanical connections between the pilot's controls and any of the control surfaces, and their inputs are measured and processed by computers which then actuate the control systems of the plane.mat205125 said:
Big Fat Fatty said:
How does the system work in aircraft, is it just the landing gear or is it connected to the control surfaces while in the air as well?
Eurofighter doesn't have any mechanical connections between the pilot's controls and any of the control surfaces, and their inputs are measured and processed by computers which then actuate the control systems of the plane.kambites said:
I seem to remember reading that the Eurofighter is fundamentally unstable, and that it wouldn't be realistically possible for a human to fly it without computers even if there was a physical link.
Cars are getting that way. Braking systems so ridiculously overboosted that they barely pass as anything more than a switch to activate the ABS system, stability controls that will pilot the car round a corner at the slightest hint of a slip angle, etc etc.Besides, do pilots rely on self aligning torques etc to fly fighter jets?
sjg said:
Stepping stones. Early ones will have this failsafe system - once trust is built in it they won't.
They've been doing this in aircraft for decades, without mechanical backup. Why not cars?
But 'trust' isn't enough. End of the day, things go wrong. They might work 99.9% of the time as intended, but I wouldn't want to be in the car, travelling around a sweeping bend on the motorway at 70+mph, when all of a sudden, the steering fails due to a breakdown in an electrical component, or even a design fault (which would lead to recalls.. fine for most, but not for the poor sod who found the fault).They've been doing this in aircraft for decades, without mechanical backup. Why not cars?
Things like Servo assistance, ABS, PAS, ESC, etc are all fine, as there is a mechanical back up. Completely removing mechanical back up seems like a silly idea, and one that I don't see catching on.
BriC175 said:
sjg said:
Stepping stones. Early ones will have this failsafe system - once trust is built in it they won't.
They've been doing this in aircraft for decades, without mechanical backup. Why not cars?
But 'trust' isn't enough. End of the day, things go wrong. They might work 99.9% of the time as intended, but I wouldn't want to be in the car, travelling around a sweeping bend on the motorway at 70+mph, when all of a sudden, the steering fails due to a breakdown in an electrical component, or even a design fault (which would lead to recalls.. fine for most, but not for the poor sod who found the fault).They've been doing this in aircraft for decades, without mechanical backup. Why not cars?
Things like Servo assistance, ABS, PAS, ESC, etc are all fine, as there is a mechanical back up. Completely removing mechanical back up seems like a silly idea, and one that I don't see catching on.
Bottom line is that if you're going to jump in a metal box and do 70mph then at some point you have to start trusting the people who made it.
kambites said:
Big Fat Fatty said:
How does the system work in aircraft, is it just the landing gear or is it connected to the control surfaces while in the air as well?
I think some modern passenger planes have no physical link between the cockpit controls and any of the fight surfaces. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff