Why are American cars built so badly?

[Gixer]

swerni said:

GolfSupplierAU said:

I have always wondered how a nation which can engineer themselves out of our atmosphere, to the moon and beyond struggle to build cars well. Anyone got any ideas/opinions?

Stupid is as stupid does.

Exactly. That whole back end is the rear bumper. Shock and horror, if you push the back bumper it flexes. Did you try the same on the remaining carbon fibre or fibreglass body panels? If I go and push my Mazdas back bumper it flexes too so I guess that must be badly built as well. Probably is, it's only got 311,000 miles on it......

[Gixer]

tbc said:

all about big engines and small price

American cars have yet to grasp the concept of refinement

the reason why Corvettes and Mustangs can more than match a BMW M5 or Audi RS for speed

are sold for a lot less and rattle like a snake at anything over 60 mph

Hmmm, having a 23 year old vette in the garage that is still yet to rattle, despite being round the ring numerous times and all over Europe I wonder what you base this opinion on. Maybe it's the newer ones that rattle? Oh wait a minute, the 2008 Z06 in the garage dosent rattle either and as for not being refined my one criticism of it is that, when compared to the older gen car it is probably a little bit too refined. If I wanted a luxury salon I would have bought exactly that.

PH has become some kind of Audi/BMW fanboy club over the last couple of year's. Sad as it started out as a forum for those that liked something a litle bit different ie TVR

[ZesPak]

I've yet to own an American car, but from my experience with French, Jap, Italian and German stuff, can we change the title to:

Why are German cars built so badly?

They all "feel" robust, until you own them for more than 5000 miles.

[LuS1fer]

Let's see now.
I had a Corvette C4 which I concede was badly built but after 10 years, it was still in one piece and could still hit 150mph. You just needed to keep a Pozidrive to hand.

I had a 3rd gen Camaro Z28 which had a cheap and brittle-looking interior but, after 17 years, while it rattled (as it probably did when new), it was still in one piece and still in excellent condition. All the BMWs and Audis of the era had long been scrapped.

I had a 1998 Camaro Z28 - nothing ever broke or failed bar an EGR valve and it was 7 years old when I sold it(£105)

I had a 2002 Corvette C5 Z06 and the build quality was fine - nothing ever broke or failed.

I have a 2005 Mustang, now over 7 years old - nothing has ever broken or gone wrong and it doesn't rattle or squeak.

So your premise is fundamentally flawed. they may not have touchy-feely materials but they last and endure far longer than just about any European marques for the same relative price as an average Ford (eg Mustang V6 for $23000).

One reason they sometimes appear possibly squeaky and rattly is if anything does go wrong, you can take the interior apart very easily and remove exterior panels equally easily. With European cars, it is always a baffling mystery when you ever want to try to replace something simple - you need to dismantle the whole car and divine secret locations of various hidden catches which break.

I have also had many Euro and Japanese cars and have never ever got in one and thought "Wow, this is better".

Edited by LuS1fer on Thursday 7th March 08:54

[premio]

V88Dicky said:

Dunno about anyone else, but everytime I've been to North America I'm amazed how many older cars are still in daily use. Cars and trucks from the 60s/70s/80s or older seem to be everywhere and generally in decent nick.

When was the last time you saw a 1970 Vauxhall Ventora, a 1980 Audi 100, or even a 1990 Ford Escort?

Me neither.

This was my first thought.

I don't think this thread went to plan!

[Darren156]

Have never owned an American car but would love a Mustang or similar one day. I doubt Ford would say they 'struggle' to 'build' the Mustang. They built it and sold millions so the Yanks must be doing something right.

[GroundEffect]

Cheap.

The vehicles have their price points and it's important that they stay there.

It's not that they can't build them - of course they can - but fixing things like a flexy plastic bumper (who cares, really?) costs a fair bit of money and weight in new materials.

[toppstuff]

It's about priorities.

American cars are actually pretty reliable. The oily bits are designed with care and durability is excellent.

Traditionally, Americans are not that bothered about soft touch plastics.

Actual quality is high, although perceived quality may be lower.

This is the opposite to some European cars, where perceived quality is high because of soft touch plastics and shiny things, but actual quality is low.

Look at the consumer surveys. Everyone perceives Audi as being high quality, for example, but the reality is the opposite as they are below average for reliability and durability.

Take Honda. Epic reliability. Nasty scratchy plastics.

The interior of an American car may look like a wheely bin. Does not mean it is not well made, however. The interior of an Audi is lovely, but the Multitronic gearbox , for example, seems to be made out of soft cheese, so often does it fail.

Edited by toppstuff on Thursday 7th March 09:00

[300bhp/ton]

GolfSupplierAU said:

I have always wondered how a nation which can engineer themselves out of our atmosphere, to the moon and beyond struggle to build cars well. Anyone got any ideas/opinions?

Why are some PH'er dumb sts?

EDIT:

To show it's not just an insult.

Have you ever considered that the bumper might move because of the 5mph impact crash regs they have in the US??

Not to mention a tad of common sense in why the fk would you make that panel rigid and HEAVY when it doesn't need to be and is purposely built from a light weight impact absorbent material?

I seriously struggle to understand how in this day an age people can be so utterly stupid. BTW the car you are hankering after in your profile is AMERICAN!!! Own by GM using GM parts and GM money.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Thursday 7th March 09:04

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Thursday 7th March 09:05

[excel monkey]

V88Dicky said:

Dunno about anyone else, but everytime I've been to North America I'm amazed how many older cars are still in daily use. Cars and trucks from the 60s/70s/80s or older seem to be everywhere and generally in decent nick.

When was the last time you saw a 1970 Vauxhall Ventora, a 1980 Audi 100, or even a 1990 Ford Escort?

This topic comes up on PH quite often. The reasons that come up for greater longevity of cars in the States are:

Unstressed large capacity petrol engines, not many turbos or diesels.
Benign climate in the southern states, with little or no road salting.
3000 mile oil changes considered normal by the older generation of owners (they're just getting their heads around 6000 mile intervals these days).
Annual equivalent of our MOT check is much less stringent in most states.

I don't think car build quality is that different on either side of the pond, to be honest. Although you can draw your own conclusions from the fact that in terms of car (not truck) sales volumes, Toyota and Honda outsell their Ford and Chevy competitors despite in most cases costing more to buy new.

[ZesPak]

V88Dicky said:

Dunno about anyone else, but everytime I've been to North America I'm amazed how many older cars are still in daily use. Cars and trucks from the 60s/70s/80s or older seem to be everywhere and generally in decent nick.

When was the last time you saw a 1970 Vauxhall Ventora, a 1980 Audi 100, or even a 1990 Ford Escort?

Me neither.

While I agree with the premises, don't forget that a number of states don't have something like a "MOT", or a very basic one at that.
That makes you can run cars that, over here, aren't actually deemed roadworthy. An old car over here can be scrapped because it needs about £500 spend on it to get it through MOT.

[NelsonR32]

dapearson said:

America didn't engineer itself out of the atmosphere.

Nein? I mean, no?

[AdeTuono]

swerni said:

The car's made out of GRP, carbon fibre, aluminum, titanium and even balsa to keep the weight down.
Even with 7L V8 it weighs circa 1400kg and stock puts out 505BHP[url]

Naked, it looks like this

|http://thumbsnap.com/WwXMXZKo[/url]

You've taken this polishing fetish of yours to new heights/depths.

[em177]

300bhp/ton said:

GolfSupplierAU said:

I have always wondered how a nation which can engineer themselves out of our atmosphere, to the moon and beyond struggle to build cars well. Anyone got any ideas/opinions?

Why are some PH'er dumb sts?

EDIT:

To show it's not just an insult.

Have you ever considered that the bumper might move because of the 5mph impact crash regs they have in the US??

Not to mention a tad of common sense in why the fk would you make that panel rigid and HEAVY when it doesn't need to be and is purposely built from a light weight impact absorbent material?

I seriously struggle to understand how in this day an age people can be so utterly stupid. BTW the car you are hankering after in your profile is AMERICAN!!! Own by GM using GM parts and GM money.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Thursday 7th March 09:04

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Thursday 7th March 09:05

I saw the title. I instantly knew someone wouldn't be happy lol

[redtwin]

excel monkey said:

Annual equivalent of our MOT check is much less stringent in most states.

Or even non existent

Used car values are also much higher in the US so cars tend to be repaired rather than scrapped or replaced. The lack of age related number plates probably contributes too.

[sparkyhx]

Panayiotis said:

Because they are built to a price and in the most part cars are seen as consumables in the states.

Absolutely spot on.

However it doesn't mean they are any less reliable, possibly even the opposite, in some instances where euro boxes are becoming hugely over complicated and expensive to fix. Just cas they have flimsy plastics etc and a less 'premium feel' than Euro cars doesn't mean they will fall apart.

[Mr2Mike]

Why does a picture of someones thumb on the back of a Corvette mean it is badly built? If you put your thumb on the back of a Rolls Royce, is that also badly built?

[Output Flange]

Doesn't one of the Renault Clio generations come with plastic front wings?

And although I've not tried it, does an Elise clamshell not flex in places if you poke it?

[mrmr96]

kambites said:

I get the feeling the OP doesn't actually understand what "built well" means.

+1

[LuS1fer]

excel monkey said:

V88Dicky said:

Dunno about anyone else, but everytime I've been to North America I'm amazed how many older cars are still in daily use. Cars and trucks from the 60s/70s/80s or older seem to be everywhere and generally in decent nick.

When was the last time you saw a 1970 Vauxhall Ventora, a 1980 Audi 100, or even a 1990 Ford Escort?

This topic comes up on PH quite often. The reasons that come up for greater longevity of cars in the States are:

Unstressed large capacity petrol engines, not many turbos or diesels.
Benign climate in the southern states, with little or no road salting.
3000 mile oil changes considered normal by the older generation of owners (they're just getting their heads around 6000 mile intervals these days).
Annual equivalent of our MOT check is much less stringent in most states.

I don't think car build quality is that different on either side of the pond, to be honest. Although you can draw your own conclusions from the fact that in terms of car (not truck) sales volumes, Toyota and Honda outsell their Ford and Chevy competitors despite in most cases costing more to buy new.

(1) Not all American engines are large capacity but they tend not to be complicated for the sake of it. the large capacity cars are often more fuel efficient than their European counterparts.
(2) They have a benign climate in the south but interspersed with those hurricanes and the northern part is far worse weather than we ever see. Either way, it's not just rain and salt, extreme heat has to be endured.
(3) 5000 mile intervals are recommended but I dare say many go 100000 between them...
(4) I've never had an American car fail an MOT in the UK. The only work required on a 17 year old Camaro was welding a small patch on the inner sill. The metal itself seems thicker.
(5) Americans love "imports". Sales have no bearing on reliability and Toyotas have more than their share of issues. Costs are also different in the US with 0% finance and so forth being commonplace.