BHP... how much is too much?
Discussion
leafspring said:
Never mind... the original question didn't translate well from thought to paper and nobody is going to take it seriously now
Once the willy wavers get bored you might get a sensible answer.I think about 150bhp is more then enough as more then that and you need bigger tyres, bigger brakes, stiffer suspension etc and so on to take any benefit.
All of which adds lard.
Also it uses more fuel and needs more cooling.
It's going shopping it's not a race
Depends on what you use your car for. I was using my Clio 182 for 95% of the time commuting and sitting on the motorway travelling for work. I replaced it with a new Ibiza FR TDI with 105 bhp and for 95% of the time I never miss the extra power as the roads dictate that you can't even use all of the puny 105 bhp in the Ibiza.
However using man logic, at the end of my lease I will replace it with something with about 300 bhp as I will be able to afford it then. It will make the other 5% much more interesting!
However using man logic, at the end of my lease I will replace it with something with about 300 bhp as I will be able to afford it then. It will make the other 5% much more interesting!
k this is getting tedious now
I've ridden many bikes with close to 1000bhp/tonne and that - quite honestly - is too much for me. It's very easy to lose track of reality when the throttle is wide open! My current bike is about 600bhp/tonne and that is about adequate.
All cars seem slow in comparison, but it's all relative; the current car is actually quite a quick point-to-point device since its remap (~250bhp, or 140bhp/tonne), but like most cars, the lower-speed point-and-squirt performance is handicapped by the weight.
So - to answer the OP - an average car with about 200bhp is about the minimum to be 'fun', upper limit only defined by running costs which one can afford.
All cars seem slow in comparison, but it's all relative; the current car is actually quite a quick point-to-point device since its remap (~250bhp, or 140bhp/tonne), but like most cars, the lower-speed point-and-squirt performance is handicapped by the weight.
So - to answer the OP - an average car with about 200bhp is about the minimum to be 'fun', upper limit only defined by running costs which one can afford.
JDMDrifter said:
100-150bhp per tonne is adequate I'd say. I think anything more than 400 isn't really usable on a daily basis.
That really depends on how it's executed. My old E55 AMG was a far nicer daily drive than my current 320d.
My 911 turbo is a nicer drive than my old 123d with 18" wheels on runflats and M-sport suspension was.
I do feel that my current 320d is a great balance of power and efficiency. For the weight, I rarely find myself wishing I had more on my daily drive.
I wouldn't say I need any more (or I would have remapped it) than this offers daily, but I certainly wouldn't say that power itself makes a car unusable, but by definition many powerful cars are sportier in nature and maybe less comfortable as a concept.
I'll go with 100-150bhp/tonne for the daily transport. 150bhp in a 2 tonne car is just a bit slow and tedious for an impatient git like me. I don't drive like a knob (I don't think) but I do like a little bit in reserve, and to be able to pull away smartly if needbe. I avoid FWD cars because I just can't drive them, thus torque steer and similar undesireable characteristics don't exist in the sorts of cars I'd be looking at.
I'd happily have more power in the daily driver though. I wouldn't need it, but would not object to having it.
I'd happily have more power in the daily driver though. I wouldn't need it, but would not object to having it.
leafspring said:
Not in super/sport/race/hyper cars, I mean in your bog standard everyday hatch/estate/saloon/MPV type car.
How much power do you actually need day to day?.. I reckon 150bhp should be enough in a 2 ton car (75bhp per ton)
I'm thinking here of why they make cars that can't handle it... like the Vectra VXR
75bhp per ton? That's a really small amount of power. Even a 1.6 Mitsubishi Charisma has 85 bhp per ton so your example must be one of the slowest cars out there.How much power do you actually need day to day?.. I reckon 150bhp should be enough in a 2 ton car (75bhp per ton)
I'm thinking here of why they make cars that can't handle it... like the Vectra VXR
My E30 325i Touring was a nice relaxed cruiser and had around 140 bhp per ton. Anything less than that and it feels like hard work on the motorway. E.g. My shed 1.8 Zetec Mondeo with 85 bhp per ton couldn't stick to an indicated 80mph (GPS 70) up steep hills on the motorway, which was very tiresome. Of course, this was down to the lack of torque in the Mondeo, so perhaps bhp per ton isn't the right yardstick here.
However, to answer the question:
Diesel - 130 bhp per ton
Petrol - 140 bhp per ton
100bhp/ton for "normal" A to B cars to make decent progress when required
150bhp/ton to be interesting IMO. My point of reference being my Clio Trophy (which is maybe slightly more powerful than this) which is fun but not THAT quick.
180-190bhp/ton in my Impreza feels a lot nearer the mark although I suspect I'd want well over 200bhp/ton for a car to feel properly quick. Nearer 300bhp/ton would seem biblically fast I imagine!
150bhp/ton to be interesting IMO. My point of reference being my Clio Trophy (which is maybe slightly more powerful than this) which is fun but not THAT quick.
180-190bhp/ton in my Impreza feels a lot nearer the mark although I suspect I'd want well over 200bhp/ton for a car to feel properly quick. Nearer 300bhp/ton would seem biblically fast I imagine!
Edited by HonestIago on Monday 5th August 08:17
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