BMW & Mercedes - no longer a prestigious brand?
Discussion
I own a lateish model ML and spend a lot of time in EClasses for work meetings.
I think they are good cars, but don't think they are particularly premium. You can tell they are all made to a price (unlike a w124 for example). As mentioned, anyone on £30k can afford to lease a BMW, Merc or Audi. It's all just marketing and "aspirational" branding rather than quality these days.
On the plus side, the sheer volumes of leased cars mean they are very cheap at 3 years old.
I think they are good cars, but don't think they are particularly premium. You can tell they are all made to a price (unlike a w124 for example). As mentioned, anyone on £30k can afford to lease a BMW, Merc or Audi. It's all just marketing and "aspirational" branding rather than quality these days.
On the plus side, the sheer volumes of leased cars mean they are very cheap at 3 years old.
Edited by jdw1234 on Wednesday 29th January 21:45
I've never liked Mercedes styling and the massive failure in late 90's build quality had killed any underlying respect I had for Mercedes engineering quality. Couple that with Mercedes in yer face finance - 'Undred an nineey niyne phhaand a muumf - is plastered all over the cars on display at my local MB dealership and with the resulting dramatic increase of Mercedes on the road I don't regard them as prestigious at all. Depending on style of driving as well as if the registration is displayed in an legal or illegal format - more likely illegal in Essex I'm afraid - whenever I see a Mercedes I think airport taxi, Chinese takeaway owner or Romford market trader.
BMWs still seem special though and for me the ultimate driving machine image has benefited enormously from the rise in Mercedes popularity amongst the aspirational and status conscious. I suspect BMWs are now being bought again by people who appreciate nice cars and actually enjoy driving them rather than those who's primary concern in vehicle brand choice is status and a conspicuous display of how much cash or credit they have.
BMWs still seem special though and for me the ultimate driving machine image has benefited enormously from the rise in Mercedes popularity amongst the aspirational and status conscious. I suspect BMWs are now being bought again by people who appreciate nice cars and actually enjoy driving them rather than those who's primary concern in vehicle brand choice is status and a conspicuous display of how much cash or credit they have.
k-ink said:
You can buy a Mercedes builders van, or a BMW scooter. So I think they sold out quite some time ago. It is all about halo products and marketing to keep the image appealing to those who find that sort of thing important.
Mercedes have always done commercial vechiles BMW have always done bikes
I recently bought my first BMW, having just moved house I was downgrading from an expensive to run SUV in the name of consolidation and sensible running costs.
I'd also sold my fun cars to fund the house move so wanted a car that was rapid enough whilst still being engaging.
Another part of the thought process was to get a car that was still smart and premium so as to not feel short changed, so a sideways step if you like.
The car I chose? A 120d with the ZF 8 speed. And I've snookered myself a little regarding getting another weekend fun car as it's actually rather good at pretty much every one of my requirements.
So in short, I believe that BMW and Mercedes do offer vehicles that are a cut above the competition and are therefore either asprational, prestige or both.
I'd also sold my fun cars to fund the house move so wanted a car that was rapid enough whilst still being engaging.
Another part of the thought process was to get a car that was still smart and premium so as to not feel short changed, so a sideways step if you like.
The car I chose? A 120d with the ZF 8 speed. And I've snookered myself a little regarding getting another weekend fun car as it's actually rather good at pretty much every one of my requirements.
So in short, I believe that BMW and Mercedes do offer vehicles that are a cut above the competition and are therefore either asprational, prestige or both.
valiant said:
Apart from the interiors they are just as likely to breakdown and suffer from niggly little annoying faults as a Ford or VW.
There's a reason they are used as taxis/mini cabs all over the world. Show me a 460k mile Ford or VW on the same engine and box and I'll show you my old 07 E220.
Until you can afford to own/lease/hp one and compare the quality I'd suggest you zip it.
They did have issues late 90's early 00's but now they're back to the top.
GTIR said:
valiant said:
Apart from the interiors they are just as likely to breakdown and suffer from niggly little annoying faults as a Ford or VW.
There's a reason they are used as taxis/mini cabs all over the world. Show me a 460k mile Ford or VW on the same engine and box and I'll show you my old 07 E220.
Until you can afford to own/lease/hp one and compare the quality I'd suggest you zip it.
They cost peanuts to lease so aren't prestige anymore.
http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/business/car...
jdw1234 said:
Thats the point though.
They cost peanuts to lease so aren't prestige anymore.
http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/business/car...
On a personal lease you are looking at over £300/month, not sure what you earn but I doubt people on the average salary would consider £300 a month peanuts, especially when you can save £100 a month going for something less prestige like a Skoda or Ford.They cost peanuts to lease so aren't prestige anymore.
http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/business/car...
For that reason they are comparatively prestige, because the less prestige brands are cheaper, simple as that. It just depends on your translation of peanuts.
Iklwa said:
jdw1234 said:
Thats the point though.
They cost peanuts to lease so aren't prestige anymore.
http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/business/car...
On a personal lease you are looking at over £300/month, not sure what you earn but I doubt people on the average salary would consider £300 a month peanuts, especially when you can save £100 a month going for something less prestige like a Skoda or Ford.They cost peanuts to lease so aren't prestige anymore.
http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/business/car...
For that reason they are comparatively prestige, because the less prestige brands are cheaper, simple as that. It just depends on your translation of peanuts.
Iklwa said:
jdw1234 said:
Thats the point though.
They cost peanuts to lease so aren't prestige anymore.
http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/business/car...
On a personal lease you are looking at over £300/month, not sure what you earn but I doubt people on the average salary would consider £300 a month peanuts, especially when you can save £100 a month going for something less prestige like a Skoda or Ford.They cost peanuts to lease so aren't prestige anymore.
http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/business/car...
For that reason they are comparatively prestige, because the less prestige brands are cheaper, simple as that. It just depends on your translation of peanuts.
valiant said:
Apart from the interiors they are just as likely to breakdown and suffer from niggly little annoying faults as a Ford or VW.
Disagree. My life has been spent going from BMWs to cheap little cars when I put my sensible hat on, and I have always gone back to a BMW because my Peugeots/Fords etc have always caused me a headache. Obviously this could be down to the cheap purchase price in the first instance, but I've never had reliability issues with BMW, just slightly more expensive purchase prices and lofty yoof insurance premiums.yonex said:
Mercedes and BMW still make some high end cars but their repmobiles are just that.
+1 They both manufacture a broad range of vehicles. The top end are very good cars
(let's say E300 and 525 and above).
Some of the lower end of the range (I'm thinking the likes of C180 and 316 and below here)
aren't much better than VW, GM or Ford.
Still, I'd rather have the cheapest suit M&S does than the most expensive one Asda does.
McWigglebum4th said:
k-ink said:
You can buy a Mercedes builders van, or a BMW scooter. So I think they sold out quite some time ago. It is all about halo products and marketing to keep the image appealing to those who find that sort of thing important.
Mercedes have always done commercial vechiles BMW have always done bikes
They were expensive shoes, but apparently when comparing apples and oranges it's doesn't matter whther they are good apple or oranges.
Prestige isn't about price, it's about image.
Mercedes have always been involved in Commercials, Trucks, Vans, Buses, Cars. Thats part of the prestige, the strength in depth, the long history (barring the DC years) and they trade successfully on that.
Look at Vauxhall - they invented the sports car, the 30-98 back in the 1920s, mixing it with Bentley etc. now they make pretty much every airport rental car and some vans - they aren't prestigious because they don't trade on that.
Mercedes have always been involved in Commercials, Trucks, Vans, Buses, Cars. Thats part of the prestige, the strength in depth, the long history (barring the DC years) and they trade successfully on that.
Look at Vauxhall - they invented the sports car, the 30-98 back in the 1920s, mixing it with Bentley etc. now they make pretty much every airport rental car and some vans - they aren't prestigious because they don't trade on that.
I don't think many 3 series owners (myself included) consider or even want them to be prestigious. I have one because it drives well
Who has even said they are prestigious? The brand is premium but not exclusive
If I wanted prestigious (and could afford it) I would be driving a Rolls Royce or a Bentley
Who has even said they are prestigious? The brand is premium but not exclusive
If I wanted prestigious (and could afford it) I would be driving a Rolls Royce or a Bentley
Captain Muppet said:
McWigglebum4th said:
k-ink said:
You can buy a Mercedes builders van, or a BMW scooter. So I think they sold out quite some time ago. It is all about halo products and marketing to keep the image appealing to those who find that sort of thing important.
Mercedes have always done commercial vechiles BMW have always done bikes
They were expensive shoes, but apparently when comparing apples and oranges it's doesn't matter whther they are good apple or oranges.
Captain Muppet said:
McWigglebum4th said:
k-ink said:
You can buy a Mercedes builders van, or a BMW scooter. So I think they sold out quite some time ago. It is all about halo products and marketing to keep the image appealing to those who find that sort of thing important.
Mercedes have always done commercial vechiles BMW have always done bikes
They were expensive shoes, but apparently when comparing apples and oranges it's doesn't matter whther they are good apple or oranges.
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