The illusion of SUV safety

[lostkiwi]

LittleEnus said:

There is some mileage in this OP. My parents were hit in their Range Rover by a Seat Leon and they were knocked onto their side and slid for 30 yards on the doors. Once you are sliding on the roof or doors you are totally at the mercy of what it around you.

4x4's roll easily.

Was it a side impact? Were your parents killed?
Anything with a side impact stands a chance of rolling. Anything where the impact is offset stands a chance of rolling.
Many years ago my Dad had an accident in a car based pickup on a motorway. He ended up on his roof (and lived).
As for your statement of "once sliding on the roof or doors you are totally at the mercy of what's around you" that's true of any accident from the moment of collision onwards.

[Aids0G]

Interesting looking at the video from a completely untrained eye it looks like the officer driving steered pretty sharply back at the Insignia perhaps looking to finish it/red mist and over corrected the X5 at what must be 80mph = any car going across 3 lanes sideways at that speed would flip this side of a supercar. sure the top heavy nature of the X5 didn't help but still, brave people the police.

Ag

[Impasse]

Are "normal" cars at any less risk of falling over? Or is their safety and stability an illusion too?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QeKw9uivw8

[sticks090460]

Ollie123 said:

I don't understand, that's a police advanced driver you are talking about, creme de la creme and far above the skill level of 99% of the people on this forum.


Shirely?

Tee hee 👍🏻

[otolith]

Intuitively, it seems it should be a function of track width and height of centre of gravity.

[V8RX7]

Well known problem - particularly with the American trucks.

If they hit a car - the car is the crumple zone but if they hit a tree there is a hell of a lot of momentum to dissipate and the passenger cell is the crumple zone.

In the snow the idiots think that because 4WD can get them going it means the laws of physics doesn't apply.

[hairyben]

How much of it is residual from 30 years ago when off roaders/"jeeps" (SUV's didn't exist yet) were brutish things with ladder chassis and normal cars for example a mk 3 escort or a metro was made of tin and would just fold up?

People love to cling to outdated beliefs in spite of any amount of evidence, fact or reason (see religious practices for further reading)

[The Moose]

My dad and sister were in an X5 that was t-boned at about 40mph by another X5. It didn't roll. Everyone involved walked away with only bruises, not even a scratch.

The other benefit of SUVs that seem to be ignored on this thread is the height of the vehicles. Both in terms of better visibility and also in terms of not having the other vehicle ride up over the top.

[otolith]

The Moose said:

My dad and sister were in an X5 that was t-boned at about 40mph by another X5. It didn't roll. Everyone involved walked away with only bruises, not even a scratch.

The other benefit of SUVs that seem to be ignored on this thread is the height of the vehicles. Both in terms of better visibility and also in terms of not having the other vehicle ride up over the top.

Both of which are at some other poor bugger's expense - better buy the next model up.

[nickfrog]

otolith said:

Intuitively, it seems it should be a function of track width and height of centre of gravity.

Wow. Why confuse the issue with critical thinking and physics? In a binary thinking PH environment, SUVs are ste. It's that simple.

[Ozzie Osmond]

LittleEnus said:

4x4's roll easily.

Yup. While driving through France I encountered an SUV lying on its side in a downhill bend - astoundingly with one of the wheels still rotating! I stopped and helped a family climb out through the windows as the doors were too heavy to open vertically. The driver had put a wheel off the tarmac and the darned thing flipped. Fortunately the family appeared unhurt although decidedly shocked.

[colonel c]

Ozzie Osmond said:

LittleEnus said:

4x4's roll easily.

Yup. While driving through France I encountered an SUV lying on its side in a downhill bend - astoundingly with one of the wheels still rotating! I stopped and helped a family climb out through the windows as the doors were too heavy to open vertically. The driver had put a wheel off the tarmac and the darned thing flipped. Fortunately the family appeared unhurt although decidedly shocked.

Yep and I've seen a hatchback on it's roof after the young man driving it applied a little too much throttle turning off the estate were he lived. Shame it was his girlfriends car.

Back to the safety thing. As most collisions don't involve vehicles rolling over, I expect most modem SUVs are probably as safe if not safer than other cars. However I doubt safety is the foremost consideration when most people are deciding on a new car.

[Wilmslowboy]

SUV's not being safe is a bit of hangover from a bygone era (as mentioned above)

One study found that the top 10 safest cars in the USA were either SUVs/Minivans or 4WD




source

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-lists-cars-with...


PS just swapped out from two back to back Audi A4 4WDs ....nothing safe about them

[psychoR1]

Mrs R1 drives a Jeep that a couple of years ago was rear ended while stationary by a VW Touran doing 50mph and pushed into a Fiesta - a sandwich crash. Fiesta needed a re-shell so write off, bent B pillars etc and all glass behind the doors gone. Touran was also bent chassis so write off with everything fwd of the A pillars done.

The Jeep was driven home and (eventually) needed a new rear bumper skin, exhaust, fuel tank everything else was repaired we still have it 4years later - so I would say safer.

I take your point about SUV's not being invincible but certainly the jeep has its chassis rails 3" behind the bumper skins and they aren't designed to crumple...

[jontbone]

About a year ago an HGV piled into my Grandparents Discovery while they were stranded, broken down in the middle lane of the M25. Their other car is a smartcar, am so glad they weren't in that when it happened.
Still struggling with injuries a year on.

[kambites]

psychoR1 said:

The Jeep was driven home and (eventually) needed a new rear bumper skin, exhaust, fuel tank everything else was repaired we still have it 4years later - so I would say safer.

Taking less damage in that sort of accident does not mean safer! Usually exactly the opposite, in fact.

[otolith]

psychoR1 said:

Mrs R1 drives a Jeep that a couple of years ago was rear ended while stationary by a VW Touran doing 50mph and pushed into a Fiesta - a sandwich crash. Fiesta needed a re-shell so write off, bent B pillars etc and all glass behind the doors gone. Touran was also bent chassis so write off with everything fwd of the A pillars done.

The Jeep was driven home and (eventually) needed a new rear bumper skin, exhaust, fuel tank everything else was repaired we still have it 4years later - so I would say safer.

I take your point about SUV's not being invincible but certainly the jeep has its chassis rails 3" behind the bumper skins and they aren't designed to crumple...

The main advantage of a car which doesn't crumple is that internal deceleration injuries permit an open casket.

[A.J.M]

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jso...


The aftermath of a 2005 Discovery 3, genuine G4 model. ( one of only 37 V8 model's ever made ) vs a 2010 Audi A4.


Audi was driven by a drunk driver, crash investigators put the speed of the A4 at over 120mph.

I'll let the pictures do the talking.

OP. You are wrong. 4x4's ARE safe.


Edit for extra link and more pictures. Showing the Audi in more detail.

http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic73486.html

Edited by A.J.M on Saturday 24th October 14:34

[The Moose]

otolith said:

The Moose said:

My dad and sister were in an X5 that was t-boned at about 40mph by another X5. It didn't roll. Everyone involved walked away with only bruises, not even a scratch.

The other benefit of SUVs that seem to be ignored on this thread is the height of the vehicles. Both in terms of better visibility and also in terms of not having the other vehicle ride up over the top.

Both of which are at some other poor bugger's expense - better buy the next model up.

I'm afraid the only thing that worries me is me and mine and them being as safe as possible regardless.

[k-ink]

Off roaders are more dangerous for everyone. They cannot turn sharply to avoid an incident. When they do plough on into something they have a lot of energy. They are unstable in anything outside of a straight ahead incident. Still, people just ant to feel superior so let them get on with it. Their fuel tax contributions are good for the economy.