How bad is Catogory C accident damage?
Discussion
rubystone said:
rubystone said:
...and you still didn't answer my question on what category water damaged cars would be found under....
Apologies. I was expecting the application of logic......
It depends on the cost of repair and the value of the vehicle!
No logic involved here mate - any car that has been written off due to water damage is categorised as a Category B.
Rubbish. I have seen flood damaged cars as Cat C & D salvage. Flood damage will not render the car inherently dangerous and the expected cost of repair (using oem parts and dealer labour rates) will determine the salvage category.
Quinny said:
David,
You said that Cat C is notified on the log book.
When did this come into force?
The reason I ask is that I have a cat c car (I think)
but there is no mention of this on the log book
Fairly recently I think, it was a bit of a shock to me when I got the first log book back. Cat C cars also need to have their identity verified (but not the repairs checked) to make sure that the car is not a 'ringer'. Cat D cars still have no mention on the log book and no identity check.
What is the real diference between cat C and D cars? God knows. I have had cat D cars that have been hit hard and cat C cars that were easy repairs. I think it really depends upon the assessor. What you have to be careful of is the extent of the damage, little things can make the diference between an easy job and a swine. I had a cat D Vectra Estate in silver that looked bad with front and rear damage, but all of the bits to repair came from a specialist Vauxhall breaker and because silver is such a popular colour the bonnet/bumpers/tailgate didn't even need spraying.
Age is the other determing factor, a new car usually needs a lot of damage to become either cat C or D, but once the same car is a few years old a relatively small knock is enough. And if the car is over 5 years old a dented bumper is enough to make it cat C. I tend to get high spec 2-3 year old cars from the major manufacturers as there are plenty of second hand or pattern parts for them, they still have enough value to be worth repairing, and they can be written of without huge damage. Generally, you get £5-7k of car for £2-4k, and I have never had any trouble selling them.
david_s said:
Cat C cars also need to have their identity verified (but not the repairs checked) to make sure that the car is not a 'ringer'.
It`s called a "vic" - Vehicle Identity Check.
Any car that is notified to DVLA on or after 7th April 2003 as having been written off ,regardless of the date of accident, will require a VIC before a replacement registration document can be issued. This notification will set a ‘VIC marker’ on the vehicle record on the DVLA database. Vehicles cannot be volunteered for a VIC; VOSA will only accept applications for vehicles that have a VIC marker.
Edited to add........
MOT required prior to inspection. Cost is £26.50, and the logbook will be endorsed thus..." Accident damaged and/or substantially repaired on (date)". It will also confirm the date that the Vehicle Inspectorate checked it.
NB> The VIC does not certify the quality of the repair.
>> Edited by towman on Tuesday 1st November 06:41
rubystone said:
No logic involved here mate - any car that has been written off due to water damage is categorised as a Category B.
Nope. Wrong again!
Are you in fact a troll? You ask a question, I give an answer and you disagree giving a statement of "fact". If you know the bloody answer, why bother asking?
and breathe....
I think it also depends on the "water" , if it is sea water or an estuary I believe the car would be cat b.I bought an integrale that had gone into a puddle and supposedly hydrolocked the engine , no water had got into the passenger compartment . As it turned out only the starter motor had seized . I am still driving this car and had it about four years ,it is cat c. I have repaired many cars including a cat x that had the front end knocked off , damage to every panel , the chassis damaged at both ends ( TVR ) and thrown a rod threw the block ! I have also seen one year old cars that I could have repaired in about half an hour that were cat b`s .If you are going to buy a car that is on the register you at least can then be more sure of its history . I would try and see some pre and during repair photos before you buy , David
OK, I am not a troll. My father was a motor insurance broker for 40 years - that's where my knowledge comes from. I've just spoken to him and he directed me to the following document:-
www.abi.org.uk/Display/File/Child/ makes interesting reading - but concentrating on the section on water damaged cars - you'll see that they are usually categorised as an A or B - in fact FWIW I have never come across one that hasn't and had a mate who bought one only to have it forcibly removed from him when the insurance company realised that he had obtained it (an innocent mistake as it happens). The point of fact on that one is that the company was concerned about the long term effect on the car that water saturation can have - espeically with regard to vehicle safety systems - eg ECU and ABS...5 years down the line, they don't want to be held responsible for the death of a user of that vehicle.
However, having read the ABI document, it is clear that it is down to the assessor to decide to what extent that water has damaged the car and on that point of fact, it can be argued that there could be water damaged cars out there that have been categorised as Cat C or D. So mea culpa, factually I am incorrect on this one, for which I hold my hands up!
>> Edited by rubystone on Tuesday 1st November 10:55
www.abi.org.uk/Display/File/Child/ makes interesting reading - but concentrating on the section on water damaged cars - you'll see that they are usually categorised as an A or B - in fact FWIW I have never come across one that hasn't and had a mate who bought one only to have it forcibly removed from him when the insurance company realised that he had obtained it (an innocent mistake as it happens). The point of fact on that one is that the company was concerned about the long term effect on the car that water saturation can have - espeically with regard to vehicle safety systems - eg ECU and ABS...5 years down the line, they don't want to be held responsible for the death of a user of that vehicle.
However, having read the ABI document, it is clear that it is down to the assessor to decide to what extent that water has damaged the car and on that point of fact, it can be argued that there could be water damaged cars out there that have been categorised as Cat C or D. So mea culpa, factually I am incorrect on this one, for which I hold my hands up!
>> Edited by rubystone on Tuesday 1st November 10:55
Cat D is economic to repair Cat C is uneconomic to repair due to labour and new parts. if you use your own labour and used parts, it can be economic, but the insurance company will not go down that route.
Serious fllod damage is normally above the level of the seats, for a period of time. They are cat b due to the unpredictable effects on the wiring loom and components.
Serious fllod damage is normally above the level of the seats, for a period of time. They are cat b due to the unpredictable effects on the wiring loom and components.
rubystone said:Yeah, but that can be quite a low value repair at main stealer prices £3k on parts and 4 days work would see you well over the price of the car
Your statement that a low value car may be written off with minor damage is obviously true, but this chap is talking about a 2002 MX5 - which, despite being Cat C, is still priced at £6k - to my mind, that's not a "low value car".
Worth pointing out that "write offs" usually start when repair cost is 2/3 - 3/4 the value of the car
Also a car that has 20 minor accidents could all be repaired, whereas one accident doing 1/4 the total damage could easily be a write off
The only way to tell is by looking at (getting someone else to look at) the car in question. there are precious few hard and fast rules
Quinny said:
The only thing that's stopped me buying Cat C in the past has been the question of what it'll do to the insurance?
As far as I'm aware, nothing.
There is no requirement to tell them.
The car has been repaired, inspected and to all intents and purposes is as roadworthy and safe as an equivelent non repaired car.
AFAIK if a 2nd large insurance claim is made on a car previously written off the payout will be significantly lower..
have a look at this,it explains everything you need to know.
www.abi.org.uk/Public/Consumer/Codes/MotorVehicleSalvage.pdf
russ
www.abi.org.uk/Public/Consumer/Codes/MotorVehicleSalvage.pdf
russ
Hi, I am hoping some of you can help me.
I've been looking around for a family car for ages. I've narrowed it down to either a SAAB 95 estate or a Honda CR-V. I came across a CR-V Executive (sat nav and full leather)on an 04 plate which have only done 4,000 miles. It had CAT C damage to the roof but is now repaired, VIC approved and everything. Total price £9,000.
This is the best option I have but should I be concerned with the CAT C even though it still has 8 months Honda warrantyon it.
We are planning to keep this car for a long while as it must transport the family around with two young kids.
Advise is certainly well appreciated.
I've been looking around for a family car for ages. I've narrowed it down to either a SAAB 95 estate or a Honda CR-V. I came across a CR-V Executive (sat nav and full leather)on an 04 plate which have only done 4,000 miles. It had CAT C damage to the roof but is now repaired, VIC approved and everything. Total price £9,000.
This is the best option I have but should I be concerned with the CAT C even though it still has 8 months Honda warrantyon it.
We are planning to keep this car for a long while as it must transport the family around with two young kids.
Advise is certainly well appreciated.
Is there a relationship between front airbags not being deployed and the amount of damage done to the car? Lots of cars on eBay that are cat C/D repairs often say "airbags not deployed" - so does this mean the car with airbags not deployed has suffered less damage than a car that has had airbags deployed?
Would any PH'ers buy a car with deployed airbage? or would the deployment of airbags mean the car has suffered too much structural damage in the course of the accident?
Would any PH'ers buy a car with deployed airbage? or would the deployment of airbags mean the car has suffered too much structural damage in the course of the accident?
www.dhales.co.uk/cgi-bin/osa/ViewPage.cgi?templateName=item_form.htx&itemNumber=577005
Somebodys knicked it and trashed it, what a complete bummer.
Somebodys knicked it and trashed it, what a complete bummer.
behi_cdi said:
Is there a relationship between front airbags not being deployed and the amount of damage done to the car? Lots of cars on eBay that are cat C/D repairs often say "airbags not deployed" - so does this mean the car with airbags not deployed has suffered less damage than a car that has had airbags deployed?
Would any PH'ers buy a car with deployed airbage? or would the deployment of airbags mean the car has suffered too much structural damage in the course of the accident?
I guess it can be used as an indicator of how bad the accident was.
Also, airbags are quite expensive to properley replace, adding to the repair costs.
Personally I wouldn't use this as any indication to the condition of the car as airbags
can be bought from ebay relatively cheap.
Personally I would not consider a cat C or D repaired car without very good evidence of it's pre repair condition and a good inspection of the repairwork by a qualified mechanic. I know that there are some good bargains to be had, but ultimately the people who buy and repair cat C or D cars for immediate resale are doing it to make a profit. Whilst I can understand that there is plenty of margin in Cat D repairs to make a decent repair job and a good profit, I'm not so convinced about some Cat C cars.
Whether you like it or not, rubystones comment about Cat C cars is true
Cat C cars CAN have been absolutely slaughtered, not all will have been, there is obviously a sliding scale with all these grades and it is unlikely that a badly damaged Cat C car will be repaired, but Cat C has a much higher element of 'risk' than a Cat D repair, which, to me, is not worth the potential monetary saving.
queue flaming...
Whether you like it or not, rubystones comment about Cat C cars is true
rubystone said:
Cat C cars can have been absolutely slaughtered
Cat C cars CAN have been absolutely slaughtered, not all will have been, there is obviously a sliding scale with all these grades and it is unlikely that a badly damaged Cat C car will be repaired, but Cat C has a much higher element of 'risk' than a Cat D repair, which, to me, is not worth the potential monetary saving.
queue flaming...
The damage category can be confusing because it is an assesment of the cost of repair compared to the value of the car. If a car if worth £20k it is economically viable to spend a lot of money on the the repair, so to be a cat C would need a lot of damage. If the same car is a few years old and worth maybe £5k then a much less serious accident would result in a cat C classification. Same car, same damage, different classification. Cat c doesn't been that the car has 'been slaughtered', just that the cost of repair (and associated insurance company costs) is more than the cost of replacing the car.
Cat C and cat D cars will be registered with HPI but only cat C cars have the registration docuuments marked to show that it has been damaged. The VIC check carried out on a cat C car is purely an identity check, to prevent a stolen car assuming the identity of the damaged car, and gives no idication whatsoever of the quality of repair.
The best cars to buy as accident damaged (IMO) are 3-4 year old cat D's bought un-repaired. The damage is often minimal and can be repaired with pattern body parts and a partial re-spray. I once saw a Fiat Coupe Cat C advertised by the insurers (on Bluecycle) with damage to the rear bumper alone, no other damage (and damage is detailed on Bluecycle) and certainly not 'slaughtered'.
Cat C and cat D cars will be registered with HPI but only cat C cars have the registration docuuments marked to show that it has been damaged. The VIC check carried out on a cat C car is purely an identity check, to prevent a stolen car assuming the identity of the damaged car, and gives no idication whatsoever of the quality of repair.
The best cars to buy as accident damaged (IMO) are 3-4 year old cat D's bought un-repaired. The damage is often minimal and can be repaired with pattern body parts and a partial re-spray. I once saw a Fiat Coupe Cat C advertised by the insurers (on Bluecycle) with damage to the rear bumper alone, no other damage (and damage is detailed on Bluecycle) and certainly not 'slaughtered'.
Does anybody know what category a stolen / recovered car would be ? Would it be classified as C or D. For example car stolen, 6 months later recovered, but partially stripped down therefore needing to be put back together again ? Just curious as I was told it could be Cat C even though there would be no accident damage, which from reading this thread would appear incorrect.
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