Headlights on all day, and Safespeed
Discussion
Marki said:
I have lived in Scaninavian countrys for the last 12 years , and despite what others will say i think its a good thing , the light there is very strange in summer or winter , and i know that since moving to Germany i have had a couple of near miss because of a t t who thinks they are visible in fog or bad light without any side dip lights on.
But that's not really the point, is it? These are circumstances when sensible people would have lights on. The original proposal was to have lights on all day, regardless of conditions.
Personally, I don't like the idea. Headlights in daylight tend to dominate your view and distract attention from nearby objects, like the following car, cycles, pedestrians, etc. The sort of things you might actually hit...
Sidelights allow you to be seen, headlights allow you to see.
Might be wrong here but I have a feeling that compulsory daytime lights were introduced in Scandinavian countries as part of the coversion process from driving on the left to driving on the right. Temporary transitional speed limits were implemented and obviously everybody would have been concentrating on their driving rather more than usual for a time.
In these circumstances I'm not sure it's fair to say that daytime lights reduced accidents - there were a whole lot of other things going on as well. I'm not especially against daytime lights but as ever with statistics, we need to know all the facts!
In these circumstances I'm not sure it's fair to say that daytime lights reduced accidents - there were a whole lot of other things going on as well. I'm not especially against daytime lights but as ever with statistics, we need to know all the facts!
I think its a bit stupid having your lights on, as there are lots of occasions when there is just no need for them whatsoever.
Only put mine on when they need to be.
And it can be raining but perfectly light, so you don't always have to obide by the 'lights + wipers' rule.
Common sense is the best thing.
Only put mine on when they need to be.
And it can be raining but perfectly light, so you don't always have to obide by the 'lights + wipers' rule.
Common sense is the best thing.
Polarbert said:
And it can be raining but perfectly light, so you don't always have to obide by the 'lights + wipers' rule.
Common sense is the best thing.
So you think when its raining but light its ok not to turn on you lights ,,,,
its all about visibility and when its raining more vis is better ,, i felt the same when i fist mved to Scandiland after seeing things from the other side i belive they are right
kmchapman said:
But that's not really the point, is it? These are circumstances when sensible people would have lights on. The original proposal was to have lights on all day, regardless of conditions.
Personally never found that, like someone said earlier your eyes adapt to the overall lighting. This is why headlights are useless in wet twilight conditions. They make YOU visible, but hardly light up the road at all!
Ever turned headlights on on a sunny day? Look at the car from dead ahead and the intensity of the lights vs the ambient light is so low you hardly even notice they are on!
If anything they are most distracting when they are not focussed properly when they ARE needed, ie, aiming in your eyes, or fog lights etc... but again, another problem that will only be solved by better driver education!
Dave
Thr Road Reseach Lab in Crowthorn did an experiment some while ago - in the eighties I believe. Using Police bikes they fitted high brightness omnidirectional white lights to the front (much like very bright side lights) and compared their visibility with dipped headlights and dim-dip headlights in varying lighting conditions. The omnidirectional lights, although lower power, were the best.
This is not surprising when you consider that headlight patterns are designed to throw a beam towards the ground and, therefore, much of the power to be seen at a distance is lost. The sadly missed dim-dip system was defective in as much as it also lost its power by focussing downwards. It would have been better if the dim-dip had used the main beam pattern. The low power would have precluded dazzle in daylight but ensured visibility. At night, though, even lowered power main beam could have dazzled.
This is not surprising when you consider that headlight patterns are designed to throw a beam towards the ground and, therefore, much of the power to be seen at a distance is lost. The sadly missed dim-dip system was defective in as much as it also lost its power by focussing downwards. It would have been better if the dim-dip had used the main beam pattern. The low power would have precluded dazzle in daylight but ensured visibility. At night, though, even lowered power main beam could have dazzled.
What's wrong here people? Have we gotten to the point where we have to have laws put in place to get people to do the simplest, most common sensical things?
We're being drawn inevitably to a point in society where the state is running the rule over everything and we are letting them. What happened to personal freedom and personal responsibility? Do we need to be told everything these days?
Instead of making more half arsed rules and regulations and tying ourselves up in bureaucracy and making small insignificant little people (who provide nothing to our lives) even more important in their little glass walled worlds, why don't we just educate people more? Make driving lessons more than a medium to merely pass a test and make it more applicable to the real world. You know, where it rains, where people drive on motorways, where people listen to radios whilst driving to work.
As it stands, you could pass your test on monday and be faced with the unknown concept of driving on the M25 with Chris Moyles blasting and you smoking on Tuesday.
And this whole "lights and wipers"? Please, think about this. If you can clearly see the car in front and behind, irrespective of the weather, why do you need further lighting on? Can the other drivers not see you?
I apologise for the rant but it scares the hell out of me watching our society become so scared of its personal responsibilities that we feel the need to have our hands held in everything we do.
My answer to making the roads safer and stopping all the crap we motorists have to deal with on a day to day basis?
Better educated drivers.
Ban smoking in cars. Its not safe to eat a sandwich whilst driving but you are ok to have a small fire attached to your hand or face whilst in control of a vehicle. This is sensible how?
Restrict younger drivers to engines under 100bhp or under group 8 (for example) for insurance. For at least 2 years.
More traffic police with discretion to use common sense (not policies and procedures to follow) who can bollock drivers for stupidity as opposed to cameras which label us all criminals for the slightest infringements.
Harsher punishments for injuries / fatalities caused by drivers.
Make the insurance companies adopt the same timescale for removing points off our licences as the police - if it's good enough for the authorities, why should the insurers get another year or two in increased premiums for a speeding fine?
No more of this "don't ban me, i need my car for work" pleading. If its that critical to you ensure you keep your job, then you shouldn't have been speeding in the first place.
Make advanced driving courses count for something. i.e. Insurance premiums which are reduced dramatically to take into account the fact that you want to become a better driver.
Make older drivers take retests every 2 years from the age of 60 onwards.
It's not rocket science. We drive around at the moment worried about the uninsured, looking at our speedos instead of the road ahead and half the drivers on the roads are simply not fit to be there. But i suppose its easier to make rules and legislation like "sidelights must be on at all times" as opposed to making the drivers safer.
All we are doing is keeping these faceless non-entities in the subsidies and perks they are used to. And it stinks.
Rant over.
We're being drawn inevitably to a point in society where the state is running the rule over everything and we are letting them. What happened to personal freedom and personal responsibility? Do we need to be told everything these days?
Instead of making more half arsed rules and regulations and tying ourselves up in bureaucracy and making small insignificant little people (who provide nothing to our lives) even more important in their little glass walled worlds, why don't we just educate people more? Make driving lessons more than a medium to merely pass a test and make it more applicable to the real world. You know, where it rains, where people drive on motorways, where people listen to radios whilst driving to work.
As it stands, you could pass your test on monday and be faced with the unknown concept of driving on the M25 with Chris Moyles blasting and you smoking on Tuesday.
And this whole "lights and wipers"? Please, think about this. If you can clearly see the car in front and behind, irrespective of the weather, why do you need further lighting on? Can the other drivers not see you?
I apologise for the rant but it scares the hell out of me watching our society become so scared of its personal responsibilities that we feel the need to have our hands held in everything we do.
My answer to making the roads safer and stopping all the crap we motorists have to deal with on a day to day basis?
Better educated drivers.
Ban smoking in cars. Its not safe to eat a sandwich whilst driving but you are ok to have a small fire attached to your hand or face whilst in control of a vehicle. This is sensible how?
Restrict younger drivers to engines under 100bhp or under group 8 (for example) for insurance. For at least 2 years.
More traffic police with discretion to use common sense (not policies and procedures to follow) who can bollock drivers for stupidity as opposed to cameras which label us all criminals for the slightest infringements.
Harsher punishments for injuries / fatalities caused by drivers.
Make the insurance companies adopt the same timescale for removing points off our licences as the police - if it's good enough for the authorities, why should the insurers get another year or two in increased premiums for a speeding fine?
No more of this "don't ban me, i need my car for work" pleading. If its that critical to you ensure you keep your job, then you shouldn't have been speeding in the first place.
Make advanced driving courses count for something. i.e. Insurance premiums which are reduced dramatically to take into account the fact that you want to become a better driver.
Make older drivers take retests every 2 years from the age of 60 onwards.
It's not rocket science. We drive around at the moment worried about the uninsured, looking at our speedos instead of the road ahead and half the drivers on the roads are simply not fit to be there. But i suppose its easier to make rules and legislation like "sidelights must be on at all times" as opposed to making the drivers safer.
All we are doing is keeping these faceless non-entities in the subsidies and perks they are used to. And it stinks.
Rant over.
If we all have lights on all the time, will it not reduce the impact?
when i go out early on a sunday morning for a bit of a drive it feels strange to not see any cars on the road and when anyone does appear i notice them all the more because they are not epxected, and on those early morning drives i am very much paying attention to what and who is about on the roads.
with everyone having lights on all the time, although the initial impact would be good, and we would see other cars more, how long would it take until the impact is gone again and we are back to certain drivers not seeing other cars because of familiarity?
an hour couple of weeks at the most?
when i go out early on a sunday morning for a bit of a drive it feels strange to not see any cars on the road and when anyone does appear i notice them all the more because they are not epxected, and on those early morning drives i am very much paying attention to what and who is about on the roads.
with everyone having lights on all the time, although the initial impact would be good, and we would see other cars more, how long would it take until the impact is gone again and we are back to certain drivers not seeing other cars because of familiarity?
an hour couple of weeks at the most?
regmolehusband said:
European proposals that we should run with headlights on all day.
They already have this in Italy, in theory they won't enforce it in town(well lit) but you can get nicked for it anywhere else.
Don't have a problem with it, but it would be best if they were wired up that way. If nothing else it would make allowances for the idiots who drive off at night without their lights on.
Polarbert said:
I think its a bit stupid having your lights on, as there are lots of occasions when there is just no need for them whatsoever.
Only put mine on when they need to be.
And it can be raining but perfectly light, so you don't always have to obide by the 'lights + wipers' rule.
Common sense is the best thing.
Errr, since when do we have wipers on side windows & wing mirrors?, its not for you to see its for you to be seen. Unfortunately thats is how most drivers think.
Do a test sat in a layby on a dual carriagway in pissing wet conditions, time how long from seeing a car in the mirrors takes till it passes. Compare the difference with lights or no lights. Quite simply the difference is staggering.
I bet sufficiently for you never to trust your wing mirrors ever again for pulling in out in front of unlit 40 tonners or cars doing 80mph on the inside lane that you did'nt know about.
flemke said:
If we need to keep headlamps on fulltime to get the attention of road users who aren't paying attention, why not require that the horn must sound fulltime too?
It's the same logic.
Yep, indeed!
Why do we need to have lights to make lazy drivers bother to pay attention to other road users ALL the time?
This is just dumbing down observation yet again, to the point where in another 5 years people will be ignoring lights, and emergency vehicles or those wanting to make progress will just blend in with the crowd.
Then what, what will be the new "look out for me" method for special vehicles or bikers etc. I think a BIG horn would do the trick!
Dave
cptsideways said:'In pissing wet conditions' - in other words, in the precise conditions in which people should have made the conscious choice to put on their lights.
Do a test sat in a layby on a dual carriagway in pissing wet conditions, time how long from seeing a car in the mirrors takes till it passes. Compare the difference with lights or no lights. Quite simply the difference is staggering.
I bet sufficiently for you never to trust your wing mirrors ever again for pulling in out in front of unlit 40 tonners or cars doing 80mph on the inside lane that you did'nt know about.
Fulltime lights will have the same effect as speed limits, airbags and the rest - taking responsibility away from the driver whilst creating the illusion of safety. The first discourages thinking about what you're doing, the second encourages doing it more aggressively.
On a similar note, last light I was driving through some back roads around Humberside airport. Fog was quite bad as per normal.
The amount of people driving with full beam on as well as all thier foglights was incredible. Worst still they didn't even switch the beam off when passing traffic going the other way.
It ain't hard really is it. If conditions are poor, use lights. If they ain't, then don't. As Flemke says, it seems people are now unable of making a simple decision themselves & hence the call for this.
My R6 runs with its lights on all the time though. However, this doesn't stop people pulling out on me
The amount of people driving with full beam on as well as all thier foglights was incredible. Worst still they didn't even switch the beam off when passing traffic going the other way.
It ain't hard really is it. If conditions are poor, use lights. If they ain't, then don't. As Flemke says, it seems people are now unable of making a simple decision themselves & hence the call for this.
My R6 runs with its lights on all the time though. However, this doesn't stop people pulling out on me
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