21799 €uro
Discussion
Bodo said:
Zod said:
Don said:
I would suggest that it is likely Ferrari make even more per unit.
I would suggest that is unlikely. Ferrari is now better run than it ever has been, but they don't have Porsche's economies of scale. They make far more bespoke parts and I simply cannot imagine that they are as efficiently managed. Ferrari earn more on merchandising than on cars, so that may well be possible.
Ferrari also spend on research and development a fraction of what Porsche (and probably what Bristol) spend on it. They have almost no marketing expenses either.
The Ferrari road car group is there to subsidise the racing operation, and it's always been that way.
Until a few (5-ish) years ago, Ferrari as a whole normally lost money every year. As they were owned by Fiat, this didn't make much of a difference. They're still owned by Fiat, but because Fiat can no longer afford to subsidise them, and because Ferrari are hoping to do a flotation, which of course would require a history or at least prospect of profitability, there is more emphasis on making money off the road cars.
Porsche figures from the website for the 2005/06 period:
€2,110,000,000 result before taxes including Sondereffekte
Wiedeking says that the Sondereffekte were the sale of their daughter company CTS and the balancing of their investment from VW.
96,794 new cars sold: €21,798.87 per car sold
102,602 cars manufactured €20,564.90 per car manufactured
11,384 employees €185,347.86 per employee
€2,110,000,000 result before taxes including Sondereffekte
Wiedeking says that the Sondereffekte were the sale of their daughter company CTS and the balancing of their investment from VW.
96,794 new cars sold: €21,798.87 per car sold
102,602 cars manufactured €20,564.90 per car manufactured
11,384 employees €185,347.86 per employee
So if we take out the 100 million profit from their currency swop deals how much did they make per car?
It's still an enormous amount isn't it?
Way more than the 2nd best, BMW.
So, to answer a question, do I believe it to be a good thing or not?
Well it's good for Porsche & presumably as all Porsche buyers are dedicated marque fetishists they are happy too.
Me personaly? I really don't give a rat's bottom whether dedicated marque fetishists are being ripped off or not.
However I suspect that deep down inside some of them do.
It's still an enormous amount isn't it?
Way more than the 2nd best, BMW.
So, to answer a question, do I believe it to be a good thing or not?
Well it's good for Porsche & presumably as all Porsche buyers are dedicated marque fetishists they are happy too.
Me personaly? I really don't give a rat's bottom whether dedicated marque fetishists are being ripped off or not.
However I suspect that deep down inside some of them do.
Edited by german tony on Wednesday 24th January 08:39
Bodo said:
Porsche figures from the website for the 2005/06 period:
€2,110,000,000 result before taxes including Sondereffekte
Wiedeking says that the Sondereffekte were the sale of their daughter company CTS and the balancing of their investment from VW.
96,794 new cars sold: €21,798.87 per car sold
102,602 cars manufactured €20,564.90 per car manufactured
11,384 employees €185,347.86 per employee
€2,110,000,000 result before taxes including Sondereffekte
Wiedeking says that the Sondereffekte were the sale of their daughter company CTS and the balancing of their investment from VW.
96,794 new cars sold: €21,798.87 per car sold
102,602 cars manufactured €20,564.90 per car manufactured
11,384 employees €185,347.86 per employee
It's debatable whether you should delete the currency hedge profit from the calculation.
They would have been short dollars (conceivably a bit of yen as well), but that would be against the risk of their US sales revenue being prospectively reduced. Therefore in a single currency world they wouldn't have had the forex gain, but they might have sold more cars.
On the other hand, the gain from CTS should be deleted. IIRC, it was in the 150M euro area.
We would also need to know what is meant by "balancing of their investment" in VW, if that is a big number.
german tony said:
So if we take out the 100 million profit from their currency swop deals how much did they make per car?
It's still an enormous amount isn't it?
Way more than the 2nd best, BMW.
So, to answer a question, do I believe it to be a good thing or not?
Well it's good for Porsche & presumably as all Porsche buyers are dedicated marque fetishists they are happy too.
Me personaly? I really don't give a rat's bottom whether dedicated marque fetishists are being ripped off or not.
However I suspect that deep down inside some of them do.
It's still an enormous amount isn't it?
Way more than the 2nd best, BMW.
So, to answer a question, do I believe it to be a good thing or not?
Well it's good for Porsche & presumably as all Porsche buyers are dedicated marque fetishists they are happy too.
Me personaly? I really don't give a rat's bottom whether dedicated marque fetishists are being ripped off or not.
However I suspect that deep down inside some of them do.
Edited by german tony on Wednesday 24th January 08:39
Personally, I think the success of Porsche is a good thing, especially because it means they company is very efficient, and Dr. Wiedeking has very strong business ethics and a high integrity. Both of these support the ideas of our society and contribute to wealth and trust.
Porsche buyers are not being ripped off either. A high margin in a competitive market is based on what people are willing to pay, and Porsche buyers are willing to pay for the philosophy and the product. They'd be free to go and get a Corvette for which are not willing to pay as much money.
The fact that the 911 is as expensive to manufacture as the Boxster means that the margin on a 911 is substantially higher than on the Boxster too!
flemke said:
Bodo said:
Porsche figures from the website for the 2005/06 period:
€2,110,000,000 result before taxes including Sondereffekte
Wiedeking says that the Sondereffekte were the sale of their daughter company CTS and the balancing of their investment from VW.
96,794 new cars sold: €21,798.87 per car sold
102,602 cars manufactured €20,564.90 per car manufactured
11,384 employees €185,347.86 per employee
€2,110,000,000 result before taxes including Sondereffekte
Wiedeking says that the Sondereffekte were the sale of their daughter company CTS and the balancing of their investment from VW.
96,794 new cars sold: €21,798.87 per car sold
102,602 cars manufactured €20,564.90 per car manufactured
11,384 employees €185,347.86 per employee
It's debatable whether you should delete the currency hedge profit from the calculation.
They would have been short dollars (conceivably a bit of yen as well), but that would be against the risk of their US sales revenue being prospectively reduced. Therefore in a single currency world they wouldn't have had the forex gain, but they might have sold more cars.
On the other hand, the gain from CTS should be deleted. IIRC, it was in the 150M euro area.
We would also need to know what is meant by "balancing of their investment" in VW, if that is a big number.
I agree, any chances from speculations with currencies are valid for the result since they have the risk in sales too. AFAIK, the gain from the CTS sales and VW share are only part of the Porsche corporate group's balancing, whose result is initial figure €2,110,000,000 this thread is based on.
The Porsche AG's return is €1,668,000,000 before taxes, which would make €17,232.47 per car sold. However, Tony's local newspaper wouldn't use that figure for comparison, when they've calculated the other manufacturer's margins based on their group's figures too
Edited by Bodo on Wednesday 24th January 12:17
I was thinking about this yesterday. Porsche were struggling badly not that long ago and it's a pretty much accepted fact that the Boxster saved their ass. Now they're basically printing their own money what would you like them to do?
Add an Elise type car to the line-up?
Add a hot hatch(!)?
Add a four door M5/E55/Q-porte/Rapide rival?
Add a 928 replacement (proper tourer)?
Give us a "proper" Cayman (full engine range and lsd)?
Buy Jaguar?
Go racing?
Add an Elise type car to the line-up?
Add a hot hatch(!)?
Add a four door M5/E55/Q-porte/Rapide rival?
Add a 928 replacement (proper tourer)?
Give us a "proper" Cayman (full engine range and lsd)?
Buy Jaguar?
Go racing?
german tony said:
Might be nice if they paid tax they owed rather than swopping their profits for shares in VW, a (partly) publically owned company.
You can't blame them for having good accountants that can work the rules to their best advantage. It's the government's fault that loopholes exist.
I'd like them to go racing.
german tony said:
Now, I didn't point the fingure of accusation as to who was responsible for the situation did I? I just indicated that I don't like it.
As for racing, they do - 's called sportscars
As for racing, they do - 's called sportscars
It's not tax owed if they've done it within the rules though.
Do Porsche run works teams though? Rather than supporting private teams?
thekirbyfake said:
Add an Elise type car to the line-up?
356/914/924/944/968 type car you mean!
thekirbyfake said:
Add a hot hatch(!)?
no, please, unless you mean this:
thekirbyfake said:
a 928 replacement (proper tourer)?
thekirbyfake said:
Add a four door M5/E55/Q-porte/Rapide rival?
this is coming very soon i think
thekirbyfake said:
Go racing?
WRC, with a little 2 litre turbo
that'd be cool
hugoagogo said:
thekirbyfake said:
Add an Elise type car to the line-up?
356/914/924/944/968 type car you mean!
Oli.
hugoagogo said:
thekirbyfake said:
Add an Elise type car to the line-up?
356/914/924/944/968 type car you mean!
Even smaller and lighter than those cars (which aren't available any more). And not a regular car with an RS or CS edition but an all out pocket sized trackday special.
ETA - what he said ^^^
Edited by thekirbyfake on Thursday 25th January 17:03
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