Lexus £81,000!!!

[75_Steve]

The trouble with the Lexus is that the Japs can't do luxury in the same way as Europeans can.

For a start, the leather will be too hard because the Japs over-tan it to get rid of the smell, which they find offensive, then it'll have too many buttons on the dash and instrumentation that looks like it was nicked from a Matsui hi-fi.

[derestrictor]

biglepton said:

I ran a company LS400 for most of 1998 and couldn't get rid of it fast enough. It's the perfect car for people who know nothing about cars - reliable, quiet, brisk and plenty of toys. It lacks everything and anything PH. No soul, no character, mediocre handling and zero fun. No one on earth would get up at 4am for a blast in an LS400.

Well that's very strange but then you're talking about the original.*

Yup, I had one of the early 430s whilst simultaneously enjoying the multiplicity of talents served up by metal from Crewe, Hethel, Mizushima and Zuffenhausen.

I'm not sure whether it was the indicated blasts home at well in excess of serious jail time per hour at silly o'clock in the AM, marvelling at the astounding rock poise of the car, something reflected in an equally solid bass line c/o Roger Glover during a Deepest Purple patch which used to haemorrhage up the driver's seat via the Levinson sub thereunder mounted, the best sat nav to date that guided me, or the perfection of the gently swaying air vents which tempered the fevered brow but something, something was nibbling my earlobe to persuade me that this, yes 'slab sided facsimile of an S class' car had a certain je ne sais quoi.

If you think 'fun' the exclusive preserve of skeletal punks in nomex then you misconstrue everything and comprehend nothing that may, just may define the true measure of fully formed PHism.

'Worth' £80k? No more than that Bentley was 'worth' twice that and can now be had for a third of it.

For God's sake, get a bastard grip.

(*As well as spouting complete boocks.)

[belleair302]

lexus is in the business of making luxurious cars....not great driving cars. teh new LS is a top draw piece of executive engineering and is purchased by people who enjoy smooth rides, far removed from us mere mortals, but understand build quality, value for money and reliability. You don't get rich by wasting money!!

Just look at their sales figures for the USA. Leaves BMW, Jag, M-B and Audi for dead. Toyota and Lexus are in it for the money not the prestige nor the driving pleasure!

[biglepton]

<snip pretentious, self-serving drivel>

derestrictor said:

For God's sake, get a bastard grip.

(*As well as spouting complete boocks.)

Ahh, I can see you are one of those inadequate fellows for whom their own opinion is insufficient and whose insecurity can only be sated when everyone thinks your way.

I'm sorry I upset your delicate persona by not liking what you like, but I didn't like my company Lexus. I'm not a particular fan of S Class Mercedes either, but I imagine that is irrelevant to someone with such an innate inability to comprehend that some people may just feel differently to you.

As you so eloquently describe the Lexus in your profile:

'Near faultless if you overlook it doesn't even vaguely know what 'sporting' means.'

and as if to support my assertion that you must be right and everyone else wrong;

'Best vfm car on sale today, nobody seems to care.'

Try not to cry yourself to sleep over it, won't you?

[ehyouwhat]

biglepton said:

stuff, mostly aimed at der

All that coming from someone who said:

biglepton said:

Glorified Toyota Camry for the hard-of-thinking.

and also:

biglepton said:

It's the perfect car for people who know nothing about cars - reliable, quiet, brisk and plenty of toys. It lacks everything and anything PH. No soul, no character, mediocre handling and zero fun. No one on earth would get up at 4am for a blast in an LS400.

Hardly qualifying your own arguments there. I'd consider a large Lexus as a daily driver - in fact I have - and I'd hardly say that I'm "hard-of-thinking".

[trooperiziz]

biglepton said:

Everyone to their own, but I can't think of anything further from PH than an LS400. I suppose it would be OK if you have a chauffeur and like to sleep, but I quite like to enjoy my daily driving as well as my weekend hoons.

My LS400 was a total hoot to drive. A big grunty RWD V8, wheelspin galore, terrible handling which made for lots of slow speed powerslides around roundabouts. Sure, it wasn't nimble, but it was a real laugh to potter around in, and ate up the motorway miles when necessary.

I can't think of many more cars you can buy for a grand that epitomise PistonHeads more?

No, you wouldn't go out for a blat in one, but for the times when you are not blatting around, it's absolutley perfect.

[derestrictor]

Lepton, you said it's car bought by people who know nothing about cars.

As someone who is obsessed by cars I found that both a harsh generalisation and plain wrong.

Good day, you appalling little man.

[d1bble]

I do apologise for opening this can of worms. I thought i was quite knowledgeable about cars, their prices, performance, weights etc (from many hours sitting on the bog reading car magazines) but was shocked when i saw the Ls600h up at 80k. I would have guessed at around 55-60k, but i suppose when it is the comparative vehicle to say an S-class (as Fittster pointed out) then i understand.

[biglepton]

derestrictor said:

Lepton, you said it's car bought by people who know nothing about cars.

No I didn't. Do you have trouble reading? I said it was a car that was ideal for people who know nothing about cars and it is. It may not be the most rewarding drive, but it requires no knowledge of cars to appreciate, unlike some of it's contemporaries.

derestrictor said:

As someone who is obsessed by cars I found that both a harsh generalisation and plain wrong.

You found what I actually wrote or your misquote of what I said as a harsh generalisation? I have never said they were bad cars. I have suggested they would not be at the top of most enthusiasts choice and that I personally did not like them. The former you may dispute, the latter you cannot.

derestrictor said:

Good day, you appalling little man.

Aaahhh, personal abuse, the last resort of the intellectually challenged forumite.

[biglepton]

ehyouwhat said:

Hardly qualifying your own arguments there. I'd consider a large Lexus as a daily driver - in fact I have - and I'd hardly say that I'm "hard-of-thinking".

I think I have qualified my own arguments perfectly. The LS places it's priorities in exactly the same place as a Camry - refinement, ease of ownership and does not try to appeal to enthusiasts. I'd consider a used sub-£20k example as a daily driver, but my comments were in response to the OP quoting £81k for a new one. I don't think most PH'ers would choose an LS600 if they had £81k to spend, but please feel free to disagree with me. Unlike some on this board I am happy to accept that other people have different opinions to me.

[biglepton]

trooperiziz said:

I can't think of many more cars you can buy for a grand that epitomise PistonHeads more?

Completely agree with you for a grand - my comments were based on the £81k price tag quoted in the OP, not on buying one for banger money!

[Prof Beard]

Why would someone pay £81K for a new car? Just think what you could buy used for the same money...

[nbetts]

Is this Lexus 'worth' £81k - hmmmm. Nope.

Is it better than the equivalent S-Class or 7-Series or dare I say it... Bentley??? at doing what the car is designed to do...??

Quite possibly , Yes.

Will the car ever break down... or go back to the dealers for anything other than routine scheduled servicing? Nope.

Does the Mark Levinson Hi-Fi sound absolutely fantastic - Yes.

Will it lose a mountain of cash. Yes, but not a really big mountain.

[ehyouwhat]

biglepton said:

ehyouwhat said:

Hardly qualifying your own arguments there. I'd consider a large Lexus as a daily driver - in fact I have - and I'd hardly say that I'm "hard-of-thinking".

I think I have qualified my own arguments perfectly. The LS places it's priorities in exactly the same place as a Camry - refinement, ease of ownership and does not try to appeal to enthusiasts. I'd consider a used sub-£20k example as a daily driver, but my comments were in response to the OP quoting £81k for a new one. I don't think most PH'ers would choose an LS600 if they had £81k to spend, but please feel free to disagree with me. Unlike some on this board I am happy to accept that other people have different opinions to me.

But you qualify your arguments by being offensive, regardless of whether you mean to be or not. A direct quote from you:

biglepton said:

Glorified Toyota Camry for the hard-of-thinking.

Whether you intend it to be taken this way or not, many see that comment as implying all purchasers of the Lex are stupid. Do you honestly believe that to be the case? Can you not see how others - myself included - find that implication offensive?

Not everyone needs (financially or otherwise) to have just one car in their 'stable', there are many who can have a daily driver and other more fun vehicles to use as they see fit. Personally I would not want something ridiculously fast and furious to spend all my driving time in - sometimes I like to just waft along in total comfort, and the Lexus is far better than a Merc CLS in that respect. Plus, driving an uber-luxury cruiser only heightens the sensation of switching to the Exige at the weekends (to mention just on example). Don't be under the misapprehension that there is any shortage of people who are in exactly that position.

Differences in opinions are very important for a number of reasons, not the least of the which is the fact that it keeps us all from driving the same make and model of car as each other. And many of us rely on people purchasing cars such as the Lexus brand-new in order to create supply for the second-hand market - today's 'expensive' new Lexus/Merc/Beemer/etc is tomorrow's bargain used Lexus/Merc/Beemer/etc, and the latter cannot happen without the former.

The fact remains that choosing a car, for whatever reason at all, does not make a person "hard-of-thinking". That's especially true when the car in question happens to be a world-leader in an area that most people who buy one consider to be their main priority.

I hope your comments were NOT meant to be taken in the way I've described.

[biglepton]

ehyouwhat said:

But you qualify your arguments by being offensive, regardless of whether you mean to be or not. A direct quote from you:

biglepton said:

Glorified Toyota Camry for the hard-of-thinking.

How can I be qualifying my comments with the above quote when I made it before my comments?

ehyouwhat said:

Whether you intend it to be taken this way or not, many see that comment as implying all purchasers of the Lex are stupid. Do you honestly believe that to be the case? Can you not see how others - myself included - find that implication offensive?

By many, you mean you. Like me, you can only speak for yourself and unless your profile is wrong, you don't appear to be a Lexus purchaser, yet you are offended that I think Lexus tend to be the default choice for those who are less than enthusiasts when it comes to cars? If you take offence at that there is nothing I can do about it, except to think that perhaps you are a trifle sensitive.

ehyouwhat said:

Not everyone needs (financially or otherwise) to have just one car in their 'stable', there are many who can have a daily driver and other more fun vehicles to use as they see fit. Personally I would not want something ridiculously fast and furious to spend all my driving time in - sometimes I like to just waft along in total comfort, and the Lexus is far better than a Merc CLS in that respect. Plus, driving an uber-luxury cruiser only heightens the sensation of switching to the Exige at the weekends (to mention just on example). Don't be under the misapprehension that there is any shortage of people who are in exactly that position.

I presume you have owned both as you are so sure. If you have splendid - you have reached a different conclusion to me. Well done.

ehyouwhat said:

Differences in opinions are very important for a number of reasons, not the least of the which is the fact that it keeps us all from driving the same make and model of car as each other. And many of us rely on people purchasing cars such as the Lexus brand-new in order to create supply for the second-hand market - today's 'expensive' new Lexus/Merc/Beemer/etc is tomorrow's bargain used Lexus/Merc/Beemer/etc, and the latter cannot happen without the former.

The fact remains that choosing a car, for whatever reason at all, does not make a person "hard-of-thinking". That's especially true when the car in question happens to be a world-leader in an area that most people who buy one consider to be their main priority.

I hope your comments were NOT meant to be taken in the way I've described.

No, they were meant in the way you inferred. I do think most purchasers of new £81,000 Lexi are 'hard-of-thinking' from a PH perspective, though I am sure there are some exceptions.

[ehyouwhat]

biglepton,

No, you're absolutely right. You didn't use the "Glorified Toyota Camry for the hard-of-thinking" comment to qualify an argument. Instead you made that comment and, so far as I can tell, have so far decided not to qualify it at all. Fair enough. So long as we can all make comments without any need to qualify them, eh?

I've just taken the liberty of quickly checking my profile, and it doesn't offer any hints as to whether I'm a Lexus buyer or not actually - all it really confirms is that I don't own one currently. But as it happens, I've never owned a Lexus in any way, shape or form. I have considered buying one though, and have taken numerous journeys in a Lexus (albeit an old LS430). I loved it, despite the fact that I consider myself to be somewhat of a car/driving enthusiast. Without drifting* into a 'my willy's bigger than your willy' argument any further than I have to, I'm willing to bet I'm just as much of what you deem to be a 'PHer' as you are.

I have owned a Mercedes CLK55 AMG though, and I also ran (though sadly did not own) a Mercedes SL55 AMG for a while too. Those AMG mercs are spirited, powerful and comfortable, but are still not what I would call sports cars in any traditional sense. A stack of power does not a good car make...necessarily, anyway. My limited experience of an older Lexus would suggest even that car (a 2002 model I think) was far more of a comfortable cruiser than the AMG cars were. Perhaps, of course, the CLS63 AMG is supremely comfortable - but even moreso than the Lexus, well I'm afraid I just don't believe it.

A while back I was fortunate enough to be in posession of both a Porsche 996 TT and a VW Phaeton (diesel!) at the same time, and it may suprise you to know that I did not always choose the porker as my ride of choice. In fact I would go as far as saying that I chose to run around in the VW more than the Porsche. But I guess that just shows how far removed from being of a PH-spirit I am!!!

Indidentally, I suspect that derestrictor thinks just as much of your comments as I do. So I reckon it isn't 'just me'.

But sure, go throughout your time on this forum believing that you can have - and express - any opinion you want about fellow PHers. So long as you're willing to accept the same in return.

Edited to add: well done on getting to grips with the quote function, by the way!

*forgive the pun

Edited by ehyouwhat on Sunday 7th October 18:36

[biglepton]

ehyouwhat said:

No, you're absolutely right. You didn't use the "Glorified Toyota Camry for the hard-of-thinking" comment to qualify an argument. Instead you made that comment and, so far as I can tell, have so far decided not to qualify it at all. Fair enough. So long as we can all make comments without any need to qualify them, eh?

Forums are probably the last remaining place where we can make comments without qualifying them, which is a good job considering all the OxO tower and nuke them from orbit threads. . . .

ehyouwhat said:

I've just taken the liberty of quickly checking my profile, and it doesn't offer any hints as to whether I'm a Lexus buyer or not actually - all it really confirms is that I don't own one currently. But as it happens, I've never owned a Lexus in any way, shape or form. I have considered buying one though, and have taken numerous journeys in a Lexus (albeit an old LS430). I loved it, despite the fact that I consider myself to be somewhat of a car/driving enthusiast. Without drifting* into a 'my willy's bigger than your willy' argument any further than I have to, I'm willing to bet I'm just as much of what you deem to be a 'PHer' as you are.

Yes, they're great to be a passenger in! You're probably twice the PH'er I am. That's why you've never owned a Lexus! The question is, would you buy an £81k 600? No, me neither.

ehyouwhat said:

I have owned a Mercedes CLK55 AMG though, and I also ran (though sadly did not own) a Mercedes SL55 AMG for a while too. Those AMG mercs are spirited, powerful and comfortable, but are still not what I would call sports cars in any traditional sense. A stack of power does not a good car make...necessarily, anyway. My limited experience of an older Lexus would suggest even that car (a 2002 model I think) was far more of a comfortable cruiser than the AMG cars were. Perhaps, of course, the CLS63 AMG is supremely comfortable - but even moreso than the Lexus, well I'm afraid I just don't believe it.

Agree with you completely on the AMGs. A 2002 LS is definitely more comfortable than a CLS63, but then I don't think I implied that I preferred the CLS for comfort. I am, against my better judgement seduced by its design and sound, not by it's comfy-ness.

ehyouwhat said:

A while back I was fortunate enough to be in posession of both a Porsche 996 TT and a VW Phaeton (diesel!) at the same time, and it may suprise you to know that I did not always choose the porker as my ride of choice. In fact I would go as far as saying that I chose to run around in the VW more than the Porsche. But I guess that just shows how far removed from being of a PH-spirit I am!!!

I ran an Audi A8 TDi - pretty much the same as the Phaeton and enjoyed it, but didn't consider it PH. Maybe we have different definitions of the term.

ehyouwhat said:

Indidentally, I suspect that derestrictor thinks just as much of your comments as I do. So I reckon it isn't 'just me'

ehyouwhat said:

I shall give derestrictor the benefit of the doubt as his arrogant and abusive posts on this thread seem to be an exception when viewing his posting history. So, now there are two of you!

ehyouwhat said:

But sure, go throughout your time on this forum believing that you can have - and express - any opinion you want about fellow PHers. So long as you're willing to accept the same in return.

ehyouwhat said:

I always am willing to accept others views, even when i disagree with them, unlike some.

ehyouwhat said:

Edited to add: well done on getting to grips with the quote function, by the way!

Now, now - after all that it's no use trying to butter me up!

[biglepton]

LOL! So much for getting the hang of quoting!

[ehyouwhat]

biglepton said:

LOL! So much for getting the hang of quoting!

Would I spend £80k on a new Lexus? Maybe not at my time of life (I'm 26), although I'd certainly spend half of that on a used model. I'll confess that my £80k - were I spending that much cash right now - would probably go on a nice baby Aston. Having said that, I will be keeping an eye on the Audi RS6+ when it ventures onto the horizon.

Fast-forward ten years or so and I think I may just consider spending £80k on a Lexus...although I am working on the assumption that I'll have that sort of money then. At the rate I'm going at the moment, such an assumption is probably a mistake!

Anyway, Top Gear is on soon. Surely something we must agree on? The fact that it makes entertaining watching, that is.

[75_Steve]

Lexii are so Alan Partridge.

That's reason enough not to want one.