RE: SOTW: Rover 825i Sterling

[Balmoral Green]

66comanche said:

Balmoral Green said:

More blather

Crikey you really do rival 300bhp for dismissing others' opinions in the utter belief that what you say is true and nothing else can be considered, you might want to try taking the blinkers off and listening to others.

Alright. I know when I'm on to a loser.

[autofocus]

Hi there,

I bought an 820 Vitesse Turbo Coupe about 18 months ago. I took it off the road and parked it up about a year ago, and only yesterday had it towed to a local garage so they can get it ready for the road again for me.

I flippin love these things are the one I own now is the third one I have had. My first was an 820 Sterling Coupe Auto, the second one was an 825 Sterling Saloon, and now my nightfire red coupe.

Can't wait to get it back on the road and will then use it and restore it at the same time. The Turbo's are an awesome car and with 200bhp it really shifts. Might look out for an 820 Vitesse saloon to go along side it as I really like the Recaro interior.

Heres some pics of my coupe when I picked it up back in August 2010





Regards

Tim

[miniman]

williamp said:

To back deer old BG up with facts, a fellow PH has scanned rosd tests onto flickr for you all to read.

Awesome, got a link please?

[SWoll]

williamp said:

To back deer old BG up with facts, a fellow PH has scanned rosd tests onto flickr for you all to read. I know you wont read them, but the road testers DO know what car compares to others, and they agree with BG:


The ROVER Montego v citroen, Peugeot, Sierra etc



84 Rover 213SE v the might of luxury Giant Fiat Regatta, Orion etc


88 827 Rover Vitesse v Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, Bentley, Bristol, maybach 67, Lear jet, QE2 (first clsss, natch) and upper class on an Airbus A380:





Sprry everyone, but BG is right. Only after the 80s and the BMW 3 series did brand's really matter. Before then you could look at everyone in the price range

Edited by williamp on Friday 2nd December 20:58

But we've been discussing "brand perception" and primarily the larger 00 series of cars from the late 80's early 90's that fell under the Rover Group, BAE and in some part the BMW era.

And how can you possibly say that peoples perception of a brand is "wrong" just because you have found some roadtests? It's their perception and as such cannot be judged by anyone else.

My argument is that Rover tried to pitch themselves above the Ford/vauxhall competition as a more luxurious alternative, probably attempting to ride on the back of established British luxury brands such as Jaguar/Bentley/RR etc by ladling on the wood/chrome/leather.

[IanMorewood]

I would sooner have last weeks shed and that was large and French, would need to be mad to part with £700 for that barge.

[marcusRR]

SWoll said:

But we've been discussing "brand perception" and primarily the larger 00 series of cars from the late 80's early 90's that fell under the Rover Group, BAE and in some part the BMW era.

And how can you possibly say that peoples perception of a brand is "wrong" just because you have found some roadtests? It's their perception and as such cannot be judged by anyone else.

My argument is that Rover tried to pitch themselves above the Ford/vauxhall competition as a more luxurious alternative, probably attempting to ride on the back of established British luxury brands such as Jaguar/Bentley/RR etc by ladling on the wood/chrome/leather.

I'm with BG on this......no one other than Rover in some faintly witty adverts ever compared an 800 to a german brand with any serious belief that was the case

Rover was volume with a bit of wood and leather.

My dad had 3 800's in a row , an 827 SLi 4dr manual in alantic blue , an 827 Sterling Auto 4dr atlantic blue/grey then finally an 827 Sterling Auto 4dr in White/grey, this was a great car, ex rover management with every factory option including the TWR bodykit. I learnt to drive in that one. He used to buy them when they were 6 months old at something like 60% off list. They were very reliable and did mega miles with no issues, seem to remember the White one did 120k in about 2 years with nothing more than normal servicing and quite a few sets of front disks.

He brought the Rovers as he didn't like the interior of the Granada and had a nasty experience with Vauxhall so refused to have a Carlton despite me egging him on for a GSi.

Edited by marcusRR on Friday 2nd December 22:10

[VCat]

I'm with the notion of Rover being percieved as a cut above its Vauxhall/Ford rivals. When people buy a car and go to the dealer, they have already been pursuaded by the advertising, history and subtle market positioning of the brand. The dealer is at the end of the long journey of choosing a car, hammering out specs to get the sale. Still, I am suprised that a dealer doesn't seem aware of the general perception of the Rover brand, instead just seeing the comparable stats and options.

[kainedog]

my old man had a vitesse fast back, pre facelift, putah'ish colour, i thought it was the nuts and he said it was quick, he worked for a firm up town and up until then always had 3 series (think thats why im so fond of e21/e30s. apparently his was previously owned by a big wig from british aerospace. but i will always remember seeing one of these(saloon t16) down the road and it had lovely recaro front seats, were these standard on some models?p.s like the white coupe

[lotus160sport]

I had a silver sterling 825 fastback with vitesse alloys, and I loved it, paid £1500 for it about 6 years ago it was a 97 and had all the toys, climate control, electric windows/sunroof, electric heated memory seats some of the most comfortable leather seats I have ever sat in, it drove superb and had plenty of grunt from its silky smooth kv6 I absolutely loved it then the inevitable happened two years in and the head gasket went so a £1000 later I was driving again. I justified the repair by saying that for £1000 it would of at the time been difficult to find something with the same spec, unfortunately after another two years on trouble free driving the head went again, I had to admit defeat and of to the scrap yard she went arrrrrgh the memories cracking car.

[swiftpete]

I had an 827. The most unreliable car I've ever owned. Would choose to start or not when it felt like it. A total piece of st and not even all that fast despite being a 2.7 v6. Crap.

[turnipbmw]

my father in law had one that had done 200k when he gave it to me, very nice car to drive and good on fuel.

certainly a better car than a late '80s jag

[Danesgate]

autofocus said:

Hi there,

I bought an 820 Vitesse Turbo Coupe about 18 months ago. I took it off the road and parked it up about a year ago, and only yesterday had it towed to a local garage so they can get it ready for the road again for me.

I flippin love these things are the one I own now is the third one I have had. My first was an 820 Sterling Coupe Auto, the second one was an 825 Sterling Saloon, and now my nightfire red coupe.

Can't wait to get it back on the road and will then use it and restore it at the same time. The Turbo's are an awesome car and with 200bhp it really shifts. Might look out for an 820 Vitesse saloon to go along side it as I really like the Recaro interior.

Heres some pics of my coupe when I picked it up back in August 2010





Regards

Tim

And with those wheels, this is hugely more appealing than the SOTW...



£1k seems a bit strong, but the coupe is the one to go for.

[S8QUATTRO]

autofocus said:

Hi there,

I bought an 820 Vitesse Turbo Coupe about 18 months ago. I took it off the road and parked it up about a year ago, and only yesterday had it towed to a local garage so they can get it ready for the road again for me.

I flippin love these things are the one I own now is the third one I have had. My first was an 820 Sterling Coupe Auto, the second one was an 825 Sterling Saloon, and now my nightfire red coupe.

Can't wait to get it back on the road and will then use it and restore it at the same time. The Turbo's are an awesome car and with 200bhp it really shifts. Might look out for an 820 Vitesse saloon to go along side it as I really like the Recaro interior.

Heres some pics of my coupe when I picked it up back in August 2010





Regards

Tim

Lovely looking car, forgot about these but always thought they looked great back then

[Itsallicanafford]

S8QUATTRO said:

Lovely looking car, forgot about these but always thought they looked great back then

+1, would always play spot the coupe when I saw an 800, they really did and still do look good...

[W124Bob]

s plate 820 sterling lives across the road lives it replaced a green (cheese wedge)820 which replaced a V8 SD1 so the guy likes his Rovers!Dosen't seem to give him much trouble as he likes to keep on top of mnaintainance himself.

[ChrisJ.]

Honda/Rover 2.7 V6 in the back of my old Hawk Stratos.
The gearbox and LSD on this was used in the Rover that Tony Pond set a TT circuit record with.

[Balmoral Green]

VCat said:

I'm with the notion of Rover being percieved as a cut above its Vauxhall/Ford rivals...


...Still, I am suprised that a dealer doesn't seem aware of the general perception of the Rover brand, instead just seeing the comparable stats and options.

It was a rare perception though

I would love to timewarp you back to the late eighties/early nineties and plonk you in a Rover dealership for a week. Often, potential customers had only walked in because of the comparable stats and options, and favourable write ups from the pundits of the day in the motoring press. But they weren't convinced, it was a huge battle against a wave of negative attitudes, memories of the seventies and very early eighties. They didn't really want a Rover, and they didn't see it in a favourable light against a Ford or Vauxhall, we were starting from a much lower level. That's not to say we couldn't win sales and make converts. But I stick to my assertion that we were not seen as a cut above or in some way a touch premium because of a bit of wood trim. It was a bread & butter brand.

This thread here will give you a flavour of what it was like selling Rover at the time.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

On every page, the brand is slagged off several times, and this is in 2011. I can assure you that back in the day, in the showroom, it was much worse. I had a mate who sold Ford, he couldn't understand how we sold anything with the publics attitude and the image of the brand. Trying to convince someone who had walked in with a negative mindset (which was very typical, and very normal at the time, just as it is now), into a 200/400/600/800 over a Ford or Vauxhall, was hard work.

That's why I'm finding it hard to accept some posters assertion that the cars were marketed as, sold as, and seen as, somehow premium, rather than mainstream. It didn't seem like that to me at the time, we were up against the usual suspects, Ford & Vauxhall, just as we'd ever been.

I don't know about the noughties, that was after my time. But the 75 was surely still up against the Mondeo and the Vectra? as well as so many more similar cars too.

Edited by Balmoral Green on Saturday 3rd December 10:49

[ITech]

Balmoral Green said:

That's why I'm finding it hard to accept some posters assertion that the cars were marketed as, sold as, and seen as, somehow premium, rather than mainstream. It didn't seem like that to me at the time, we were up against the usual suspects, Ford & Vauxhall, just as we'd ever been.
[/footnote]

This is because you are not understanding what we are saying, it is not us that are deluded, let me explain again.
The Senior Management and Marketing people at Rover at the time of the 800 mk1, 800 mk2 and 200/444 lauches, were, especially with the 800, trying to reposition Rover above Ford and Vauxhaul, by using a bit of chrome, wood and leather and high standard spec. It is laughable I know and almost everyone except them even at the time was not convinced, including you as a member of the ground floor sales team.
But, that is what the senior management and Marketing execs planned, it just didn't work, as the majority of the public were not fooled and knew the cars were very poor compared to German cars.
There is proof of this, as at the time when the 200/400 and 800 Rovers were launched, there were many items on the news and in a lot of magazines, with headlines, like 'At last a Rover to compete with BMW head on' or something similar and equally ludicrous. These headlines had been provided by the Rover Marketing team of the day, they were piffle, but that was the attempt they were making to elevate the brand, back to where it stood in the 50's and 60's, when Rover certainly made some good cars and was, in the 50's and 60's undeniably above Ford in quality and cachet.

How you viewed the cars you were selling, is not the issue and was never the point we were making. We wree talking about Rovers top management delusions and attempts to target BMW, that failed because the 800 was not good enough.

Edited by ITech on Saturday 3rd December 11:18

[M0BZY]

Poor old Rover,as soon as the name is mentioned out comes those that know b****r all about them.other than they must be slagged off.
What is being ignored in these discussion is the fact that like is not being compared with like,Granadas and Carltons were rear wheel drive but Rover were in the forefront of trying to put more and more BHP through the front wheels,even Saab were having gear-box problems in both manual and auto boxes,I know having owned both.
Rover by tradition was a middle management car , yes the brand was diluted when trying to leave the Austin/Morris names behind,both great cars in their time,but owing to lack of investment and customer preconceptions they were on a loser,they had been heading that way since the amalgamation that formed BMC,indeed the original mini/metro engine used the same block as the pre-war 10 hp.
If the same assistance had been offered Austin,Rover,and Morris that had been given to Volkswagen and the rest of German engineering after WW2 then we would be singing from a differant song sheet,conversley if nothing had been given to Germany,who knows who would have been on top now?

[red_rover]

Who said Rovers were never compared to BMWs?