RE: Alfa Romeo 4C - first official pictures
Discussion
One thing's for sure - if you try to compete directly with Porsche by having a similar product spec and price, you're going to lose.
The Alfa 4C is sufficiently different that it stands a good chance of meeting its modest sales targets. People get too hung up trying to pigeon-hole cars against competitors when there isn't necessarily a direct competitor at the exact price point (the 4C and the F-type).
The Alfa 4C is sufficiently different that it stands a good chance of meeting its modest sales targets. People get too hung up trying to pigeon-hole cars against competitors when there isn't necessarily a direct competitor at the exact price point (the 4C and the F-type).
There are two things that will make me want this more than Cayman R/S.
- Crazy BHP/ton. Also engine has to be interesting. Giulietta 1.7 turbo is uninspiring power plant if it is not modified for more character.
- Price. It really has to be cheaper to get me interested if there is no performance benefit.
Agoogy said:
Mermaid said:
TA14 said:
So it's six times rarer, 30% lighter, prettier, c/f tub with AR heritage but why would a Porsche buyer want one?
Prejudice or experience with the makes?Edited by Mermaid on Wednesday 13th February 16:15
4c is a niche product. It will sell through looks (which some on't like, but enough do), rarity, concept (low weight, high power) and driving experience (assuming it's good, though many will have to commit before a testdrive or review is published).
£50k is a significant sum to many for any car, but lets repeat rumour is the aim is to sell just 2,000 p.a. maximum, globally - I just don't see it being a problem
Having said all that, for me personally, whilst I know it's not comparing eggs with eggs and indeed any comparison of a new car to a used car is totally unfair, I'm looking for a 3rd car (occasional track use, weekend car, something to help keep the miles off my Aston) with a budget of c. £30-40k and one car that keeps popping up just out of budget is 997 GT3. You can now buy a 20k mile gen 1 GT3 for low-mid £50s. If semi reasonably specced up a 4C is the same money and I could stretch to the £55k supposedly required for one, I'd struggle not to buy the GT3 instead.....
But there is still a lot of price conjecture, including whether it's 50k euros or £50k and also whether that's a launch spec model with a cheaper version following suit - until that is sorted, because the impact of a £40k 4C is so different to that of a £50k+ OTR 4C, we can't say very much at all with any degree of certainty
£50k is a significant sum to many for any car, but lets repeat rumour is the aim is to sell just 2,000 p.a. maximum, globally - I just don't see it being a problem
Having said all that, for me personally, whilst I know it's not comparing eggs with eggs and indeed any comparison of a new car to a used car is totally unfair, I'm looking for a 3rd car (occasional track use, weekend car, something to help keep the miles off my Aston) with a budget of c. £30-40k and one car that keeps popping up just out of budget is 997 GT3. You can now buy a 20k mile gen 1 GT3 for low-mid £50s. If semi reasonably specced up a 4C is the same money and I could stretch to the £55k supposedly required for one, I'd struggle not to buy the GT3 instead.....
But there is still a lot of price conjecture, including whether it's 50k euros or £50k and also whether that's a launch spec model with a cheaper version following suit - until that is sorted, because the impact of a £40k 4C is so different to that of a £50k+ OTR 4C, we can't say very much at all with any degree of certainty
jonby said:
4c is a niche product. It will sell through looks (which some on't like, but enough do), rarity, concept (low weight, high power) and driving experience (assuming it's good, though many will have to commit before a testdrive or review is published).
£50k is a significant sum to many for any car, but lets repeat rumour is the aim is to sell just 2,000 p.a. maximum, globally - I just don't see it being a problem
Having said all that, for me personally, whilst I know it's not comparing eggs with eggs and indeed any comparison of a new car to a used car is totally unfair, I'm looking for a 3rd car (occasional track use, weekend car, something to help keep the miles off my Aston) with a budget of c. £30-40k and one car that keeps popping up just out of budget is 997 GT3. You can now buy a 20k mile gen 1 GT3 for low-mid £50s. If semi reasonably specced up a 4C is the same money and I could stretch to the £55k supposedly required for one, I'd struggle not to buy the GT3 instead.....
But there is still a lot of price conjecture, including whether it's 50k euros or £50k and also whether that's a launch spec model with a cheaper version following suit - until that is sorted, because the impact of a £40k 4C is so different to that of a £50k+ OTR 4C, we can't say very much at all with any degree of certainty
Absolutely agree. To command this price, I'd suggest they need to be selling no more than 300 of these in the UK each year.£50k is a significant sum to many for any car, but lets repeat rumour is the aim is to sell just 2,000 p.a. maximum, globally - I just don't see it being a problem
Having said all that, for me personally, whilst I know it's not comparing eggs with eggs and indeed any comparison of a new car to a used car is totally unfair, I'm looking for a 3rd car (occasional track use, weekend car, something to help keep the miles off my Aston) with a budget of c. £30-40k and one car that keeps popping up just out of budget is 997 GT3. You can now buy a 20k mile gen 1 GT3 for low-mid £50s. If semi reasonably specced up a 4C is the same money and I could stretch to the £55k supposedly required for one, I'd struggle not to buy the GT3 instead.....
But there is still a lot of price conjecture, including whether it's 50k euros or £50k and also whether that's a launch spec model with a cheaper version following suit - until that is sorted, because the impact of a £40k 4C is so different to that of a £50k+ OTR 4C, we can't say very much at all with any degree of certainty
jonby said:
4c is a niche product. It will sell through looks (which some on't like, but enough do), rarity, concept (low weight, high power) and driving experience (assuming it's good, though many will have to commit before a testdrive or review is published).
£50k is a significant sum to many for any car, but lets repeat rumour is the aim is to sell just 2,000 p.a. maximum, globally - I just don't see it being a problem
Having said all that, for me personally, whilst I know it's not comparing eggs with eggs and indeed any comparison of a new car to a used car is totally unfair, I'm looking for a 3rd car (occasional track use, weekend car, something to help keep the miles off my Aston) with a budget of c. £30-40k and one car that keeps popping up just out of budget is 997 GT3. You can now buy a 20k mile gen 1 GT3 for low-mid £50s. If semi reasonably specced up a 4C is the same money and I could stretch to the £55k supposedly required for one, I'd struggle not to buy the GT3 instead.....
But there is still a lot of price conjecture, including whether it's 50k euros or £50k and also whether that's a launch spec model with a cheaper version following suit - until that is sorted, because the impact of a £40k 4C is so different to that of a £50k+ OTR 4C, we can't say very much at all with any degree of certainty
It's not just a 'niche' car, it's a 'halo' car (God help me, I'm using marketing speak).£50k is a significant sum to many for any car, but lets repeat rumour is the aim is to sell just 2,000 p.a. maximum, globally - I just don't see it being a problem
Having said all that, for me personally, whilst I know it's not comparing eggs with eggs and indeed any comparison of a new car to a used car is totally unfair, I'm looking for a 3rd car (occasional track use, weekend car, something to help keep the miles off my Aston) with a budget of c. £30-40k and one car that keeps popping up just out of budget is 997 GT3. You can now buy a 20k mile gen 1 GT3 for low-mid £50s. If semi reasonably specced up a 4C is the same money and I could stretch to the £55k supposedly required for one, I'd struggle not to buy the GT3 instead.....
But there is still a lot of price conjecture, including whether it's 50k euros or £50k and also whether that's a launch spec model with a cheaper version following suit - until that is sorted, because the impact of a £40k 4C is so different to that of a £50k+ OTR 4C, we can't say very much at all with any degree of certainty
When this comes out, petrolheads and non-petrolheads alike will dribble uncontrolably at the mere sight of it. They'll hear about it's astonishing power-to-weight ratio, swoon over its looks and its rarity and price will ensure that they'll hardly see them, and when they do they'll have to console themselves that they'll never be able to afford one.
This is the essence of exclusivity and desirability.
However, shortly after it arrives, Alfa will announce that you can have a new Spider with the same engine and similar looks for less than half the price.
The result? Lots of people in Alfa showrooms.
To its credit, Alfa are one of the few manufacturers who can get away with something like this, simply because their cars are relatively affordable when compared to the desirability of the heritage and engineering that goes into them. If BMW attempted to do the same thing, it would end up too expensive and quite possibly too conservative (the Z8 being a case in point). The VW Group is too strongly locked into its hierarchy of 'brands' to ever allow one to tread on another's toes (I suspect the VW BlueSport roadster was canned because it threatened Porsche, plus because they're inherently conservative even the concept looked dull and predictable). Mercedes wouldn't even bother.
In some ways, you could say they're doing what Jaguar did with the CX-75 turbine-car project followed up by the F-type (only Jaguar never put the CX-75 into production). Grab lots of attention with cutting-edge supercar, then flog mass-market sports car that looks quite similar.
Twincam16 said:
jonby said:
4c is a niche product. It will sell through looks (which some on't like, but enough do), rarity, concept (low weight, high power) and driving experience (assuming it's good, though many will have to commit before a testdrive or review is published).
£50k is a significant sum to many for any car, but lets repeat rumour is the aim is to sell just 2,000 p.a. maximum, globally - I just don't see it being a problem
Having said all that, for me personally, whilst I know it's not comparing eggs with eggs and indeed any comparison of a new car to a used car is totally unfair, I'm looking for a 3rd car (occasional track use, weekend car, something to help keep the miles off my Aston) with a budget of c. £30-40k and one car that keeps popping up just out of budget is 997 GT3. You can now buy a 20k mile gen 1 GT3 for low-mid £50s. If semi reasonably specced up a 4C is the same money and I could stretch to the £55k supposedly required for one, I'd struggle not to buy the GT3 instead.....
But there is still a lot of price conjecture, including whether it's 50k euros or £50k and also whether that's a launch spec model with a cheaper version following suit - until that is sorted, because the impact of a £40k 4C is so different to that of a £50k+ OTR 4C, we can't say very much at all with any degree of certainty
It's not just a 'niche' car, it's a 'halo' car (God help me, I'm using marketing speak).£50k is a significant sum to many for any car, but lets repeat rumour is the aim is to sell just 2,000 p.a. maximum, globally - I just don't see it being a problem
Having said all that, for me personally, whilst I know it's not comparing eggs with eggs and indeed any comparison of a new car to a used car is totally unfair, I'm looking for a 3rd car (occasional track use, weekend car, something to help keep the miles off my Aston) with a budget of c. £30-40k and one car that keeps popping up just out of budget is 997 GT3. You can now buy a 20k mile gen 1 GT3 for low-mid £50s. If semi reasonably specced up a 4C is the same money and I could stretch to the £55k supposedly required for one, I'd struggle not to buy the GT3 instead.....
But there is still a lot of price conjecture, including whether it's 50k euros or £50k and also whether that's a launch spec model with a cheaper version following suit - until that is sorted, because the impact of a £40k 4C is so different to that of a £50k+ OTR 4C, we can't say very much at all with any degree of certainty
When this comes out, petrolheads and non-petrolheads alike will dribble uncontrolably at the mere sight of it. They'll hear about it's astonishing power-to-weight ratio, swoon over its looks and its rarity and price will ensure that they'll hardly see them, and when they do they'll have to console themselves that they'll never be able to afford one.
This is the essence of exclusivity and desirability.
However, shortly after it arrives, Alfa will announce that you can have a new Spider with the same engine and similar looks for less than half the price.
The result? Lots of people in Alfa showrooms.
To its credit, Alfa are one of the few manufacturers who can get away with something like this, simply because their cars are relatively affordable when compared to the desirability of the heritage and engineering that goes into them. If BMW attempted to do the same thing, it would end up too expensive and quite possibly too conservative (the Z8 being a case in point). The VW Group is too strongly locked into its hierarchy of 'brands' to ever allow one to tread on another's toes (I suspect the VW BlueSport roadster was canned because it threatened Porsche, plus because they're inherently conservative even the concept looked dull and predictable). Mercedes wouldn't even bother.
In some ways, you could say they're doing what Jaguar did with the CX-75 turbine-car project followed up by the F-type (only Jaguar never put the CX-75 into production). Grab lots of attention with cutting-edge supercar, then flog mass-market sports car that looks quite similar.
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