Hybrids - its a tax thing not an mpg thing isn't it?
Discussion
Roo said:
Do you not think it might be because small cars are already highly economical so the fuel saving on that size of car would be lower?
It is not possible to engineer and downsize the Hybrid technology into a smaller and cost effective competitive package. The engineering expertise of companies such as Porsche have already identified these longer term Hybrid scaling issues. However, they have failed to consult McWigglebum, so maybe they have missed a trick.
Technomatt said:
Roo said:
Do you not think it might be because small cars are already highly economical so the fuel saving on that size of car would be lower?
It is not possible to engineer and downsize the Hybrid technology into a smaller and cost effective competitive package. The engineering expertise of companies such as Porsche have already identified these longer term Hybrid scaling issues. However, they have failed to consult McWigglebum, so maybe they have missed a trick.
However an Hybrid city car isn't as silly an idea as the massivley flawed diesels with their belt driven water pumps.
Roo said:
Hybrids. All wrong.
That's why Merc have announced an S500 plug in and Range Rover have announced hybrid versions of the Sport and the full size car.
Hybrids. Not all wrong but equally not that unqualified best solution many just automatically assume here.That's why Merc have announced an S500 plug in and Range Rover have announced hybrid versions of the Sport and the full size car.
Example: The now thread topical Jazz Hybrid. £17K and a combined 62 mpg.
Save £5000 on the Jazz Hybrid and buy something like an equivalent £12K diesel Kia Rio, Hyundai i20 or Clio Dci with a combined 88 mpg.
No brainer. Overpriced Hybrid technology.
Technomatt said:
Roo said:
Hybrids. All wrong.
That's why Merc have announced an S500 plug in and Range Rover have announced hybrid versions of the Sport and the full size car.
Hybrids. Not all wrong but equally not that unqualified best solution many just automatically assume here.That's why Merc have announced an S500 plug in and Range Rover have announced hybrid versions of the Sport and the full size car.
Example: The now thread topical Jazz Hybrid. £17K and a combined 62 mpg.
Save £5000 on the Jazz Hybrid and buy something like an equivalent £12K diesel Kia Rio, Hyundai i20 or Clio Dci with a combined 88 mpg.
No brainer. Overpriced Hybrid technology.
McWigglebum4th said:
And the problem with using a diesel on short start stop journeys is?
Me, Sir! Me, Sir! I can answer that one. One problem is the mpg is nowhere near anything like what I can get out of it on a longer run (at anything up to very illegal speeds) another being these hugely complex modern emissions chasing small capacity diesels is they seem to be a bit brittle. At least in the experience of my company fleet (and from mild internetting many other owner/users).Hopefully this will improve with further development.
Technomatt said:
Hybrids. Not all wrong but equally not that unqualified best solution many just automatically assume here.
That's just in your head, I'm afraid.Blinkered Prius love - Priapism? - might still be occasionally identifiable out there in the MSM, but there's never been much sign of it on PH.
IroningMan said:
Technomatt said:
Hybrids. Not all wrong but equally not that unqualified best solution many just automatically assume here.
That's just in your head, I'm afraid.Blinkered Prius love - Priapism? - might still be occasionally identifiable out there in the MSM, but there's never been much sign of it on PH.
Even stripping out the comical inconsistent Scottish ramblings, you are still left with a decent smattering of Hybrid nirvana converts.
There's even no appreciation for the free therapy on offer.
Technomatt said:
Save about £4K then and buy something like a combined 66 mpg petrol Clio TCe.
Spot a trend here?
The Hybrid = not making any economic sense
Well apart from you having an irrational fear with anything that runs off a batterySpot a trend here?
The Hybrid = not making any economic sense
Not really as there are other advantages other then the pure economics of it
AnotherClarkey said:
XDA said:
AnotherClarkey said:
Obviously your reasons are your own but there are good reasons for at least considering a Prius, even if some (or all) may not apply to you, e.g:
You want an auto.
You want to spend still less on fuel.
You want something with more space for passengers and luggage.
You want something with better 0-60 performance.
You want something more refined.
You want something with better equipment levels.
You want something with a longer warranty from a company with a better record of reliability.
1. A Golf Bluemotion is available as an auto.You want an auto.
You want to spend still less on fuel.
You want something with more space for passengers and luggage.
You want something with better 0-60 performance.
You want something more refined.
You want something with better equipment levels.
You want something with a longer warranty from a company with a better record of reliability.
2. The Golf Bluemotion achieves 56-59 mpg, and probably more in the right hands.
3. The Golf Bluemotion is available as an estate.
4. The 0-62 of the Golf Bluemotion is very similiar to that of the Prius.
5. I wouldn't say a Prius is "more refined".
6. The spec of a Golf Bluemotion is pretty good and cheaper than a Prius.
7. I'm not so sure Toyota had a recent better record of reliability given recent recalls. I'm finding my Golf Bluemotion to be very reliable.
I still struggle to see why I'd choose a Prius?
Volkswagen are having their own issues with safety recalls at the moment but I wouldn't hold that against them - after all, recalls do not leave you stranded by the side of the road or cost you large sums of money.
The fact that the Golf is available as an estate is an advantage for many and I assume it can tow - which the Prius can't. Of course many will drive both and simply prefer one over the other for entirely subjective and personal reasons and that is fine.
The handling is substantially better and its road tax is £10 a year more. In the real world it will give you mid 50 mpg easily.
I recently sourced a car for my recently widowed father in law who does 5 mile trips daily and needs an auto. A hybrid was definitely the best for that mix because diesels have their own particular issues with never reaching full working temps. he loves the Toyota and the various toys, especially the keyless entry but it's not been a paragon of reliability I'm afraid.The keys (Both of them!!) stopped working at the same time and the wonderful dealer charged £20 to put new batteries into them on a car they supplied less than 3 months ago.
Real world economy depends on the mix of use but the figures hybrids give seem to be consistently worse than turbodiesels.
The Prius appeals to me because of its clever engineering but as a drivers car its a complete "white good" I'm afraid. Entirely free of anything resembling fun as a drivers car. Almost wilfully engineered to be annodyne and boring. I'd have the Golf every time
or a 320D which is an outstanding drivers car, sounds very nice indeed and still gives a genuine real world 55mpg.
Technomatt said:
Roo said:
I don't want a diesel.
What are the ppm costs of those cars?
Save about £4K then and buy something like a combined 66 mpg petrol Clio TCe.What are the ppm costs of those cars?
Spot a trend here?
The Hybrid = not making any economic sense
You might save £4k off the asking price with the Clio, but will that £4k be swallowed up with greater depreciation?
And furthermore, how will that Clio consume fuel driving in stop start traffic compared to a hybrid?
Technomatt said:
Save about £4K then and buy something like a combined 66 mpg petrol Clio TCe.
Spot a trend here?
The Hybrid = not making any economic sense
Nah, I would spend less than £1000 more on a better equipped Yaris hybrid with the auto box that I want. I would get a better warranty and enjoy the fact that the Yaris averages 58mpg in the real world as opposed to the Clio which mangages 46.Spot a trend here?
The Hybrid = not making any economic sense
Of course, I could buy a simmilarly equipped diesel Clio instead but that would cost more than the Yaris, still not have the auto box I want and although it seems to be up to 2mpg more economical in the real world much of that would be wiped out by the fact that diesel costs more than petrol. The Yaris is still more efficient in energy terms though since the Clio diesel cheats by using fuel that contains approximately 10% more energy in the first place.
Oh, and I don't like driving diesels.
AnotherClarkey said:
Oh, and I don't like driving diesels.
But you "like" driving a Prius.I had a 330d 4-5 years ago that a lorry rearranged for me and the replacement, a similar 330i , was very similar in most respects except that it felt slower because of the comparative lack of torque, achieved 15 mpg less in my 3 weeks with the car and , IMHO sounded less good.
Torquey, smooth modern Turbodiesels , preferably 6 cyl admittedly, are excellent motors.
Edited by Dblue on Wednesday 21st August 23:57
Dblue said:
AnotherClarkey said:
Technomatt said:
Oh, and I don't like driving diesels.
But you "like" driving a Prius.I had a 330d 4-5 years ago that a lorry rearranged for me and the replacement, a similar 330i , was very similar in most respects except that it felt slower because of the comparative lack of torque, achieved 15 mpg less in my 3 weeks with the car and , IMHO sounded less good.
Torquey, smooth modern Turbodiesels , preferably 6 cyl admittedly, are excellent motors.
No inverted commas required - I do like driving a Prius, it reminds me of my old Merc W123. I am not saying that turbodiesels aren't good (although they seem to be becoming ever more complex and expensive to repair when they go wrong), I just don't like driving them.
Edited by AnotherClarkey on Wednesday 21st August 12:30
Roo said:
Hybrids. All wrong.
That's why Merc have announced an S500 plug in and Range Rover have announced hybrid versions of the Sport and the full size car.
Fashion! Turn to the leftThat's why Merc have announced an S500 plug in and Range Rover have announced hybrid versions of the Sport and the full size car.
Fashion! Turn to the right
Oooh, fashion!
We are the goon squad
And we're coming to town
Beep-beep
Beep-beep
Oh, bop, do do do do do do do do
Fa-fa-fa-fa-fashion
Oh, bop, do do do do do do do do
Fa-fa-fa-fa-fashion
La-la la la la la la-la
oyster said:
Are you including depreciation into your recommendations?
You might save £4k off the asking price with the Clio, but will that £4k be swallowed up with greater depreciation?
And furthermore, how will that Clio consume fuel driving in stop start traffic compared to a hybrid?
The typical £4K differences are in list prices not discounted. You might save £4k off the asking price with the Clio, but will that £4k be swallowed up with greater depreciation?
And furthermore, how will that Clio consume fuel driving in stop start traffic compared to a hybrid?
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