RE: Evora S Sports Racer: Intro
Discussion
hughcam said:
mrdemon said:
easy
build is still dire
support and dealers are still dire
the engines a heavy weight old lump
And it's slower
hence why we pick Caymans
you obviously havent been to JCT600 leeds (fantastic service) or sat in a Sports racer...build is still dire
support and dealers are still dire
the engines a heavy weight old lump
And it's slower
hence why we pick Caymans
The sports racer felt alot more special than the cayman I sat in
Yesterday I was down at JCT to order some parts. Helpful chap and no complaints with the staff of JCT...however. Of the parts list we had with us, 2 parts out of 15 were actually showing as "in stock" on the computer, to be ordered to JCT for collection at a later date. Another 5 or so parts were on back order with a long wait. Another 6 or so parts were showing on back order with no known due date. And the remaining 2 parts weren't even showing as existing on their system, despite being clearly shown on the Deroure parts site showing OEM parts.
Heaven knows what would happen if you needed a mass part order because of a bump. There are people saying that after 4 - 6 months waiting on a new clam for a common-garden Elise they are still sat waiting. These were hardly low volume/single market cars, these were sold in vast numbers. If you needed a new clam and a big order of various small parts to repair/rebuild one of these, good luck finding them.
Another fine example was the "launch" of the new Exige about 2 years ago. As it happened this took place about a month before the launch of the new Boxster and I happened to have invitations to both events. By comparison....
Porsche, again JCT. Arrived and had 3 or 4 car park attendants in orange vests to direct you to well organised large car park. Walked into dealership, 2 cute hosts welcome us to the event, explain where everything is, invite us to participate in the free raffle and if we have any troubles with the questions just to ask. Hot outfits too. The bar in the centre of the dealership was stocked with champers, ice cold beers and red and white wine. The canapes were majestic, steak bites and some wonderful selections of little snacks. To one side was the Boxster line up from the first edition through to the very last, an immaculate model of each. To the other side was the latest 981, in 3 different launch colours. As we sipped the free-flowing champagne, a presentation was given by the head of Porsche GB on the new car, followed by 5 minutes from the dealership principle. After that, a video showing the new car was shown on a big screen and the figures of Nurburgring lap times etc was shown. The raffle then was held, giving away lots of decent Porsche regalia, espresso sets, high-end pens etc etc. And then, by which point I was about 1 and a half bottles of fizz in, a female DJ kicked off some tunes and the dealership essentially turned into a club for the rest of the night.
Contrast that to the launch of the V6 Exige. We duly rocked up down to JCT. No parking, so cars dumped on Geldard road, not the best of areas. Walked up to the dealer, some scraggy 1/4 slice sandwiches on offer that were brick hard at the edges. Whatever was in them was hard to determine. To drink, there was a few warm mini-cans (aircraft size) of Tango and Coke.
The best part. Lotus hadn't been able to send the new Exige. Instead there was an old mock up of a Lotus F1 car. It would have been hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.
I'm not particularly brand loyal and have owned TVRs (several), Lotus (several) and Porsche. I love the way the Lotus drive and truly think that there is little that can touch it on a British country lane, even comparing to high end exotica. However, just the driving capability of the car is not enough to tempt people in the £65k - £70k price bracket, not when the Porsche is very close at the heels in terms of capability but with the solid door, the customer service and the dependency.
On a final note, the Evora simply doesn't feel quick enough in that bracket IMO. After a test drive I got back into mine and it felt like a scolded cat.
Part of just died inside that you judge a car launch on quality of the canapés. Ok it was piss poor not having the launch car at the actual launch but you get my drift...
All this talk of Evoras has just sent me scurrying off to the classifieds. They do seem to hold their value well after the first hit.
All this talk of Evoras has just sent me scurrying off to the classifieds. They do seem to hold their value well after the first hit.
Can`t resist replying to this...
I have a 2011 Evora S which is largely a weekend and touring car and I think it is fantastic. I have also tweaked it to 390hp...
It does have some minor trim/build quality issues, i.e. a few things not lining up quite perfectly and the drivers seat squeaks a bit over bad surfaces when I am bouncing up and down. These things are annoying until you come to a series of bends and you have activated the sport button, then all is forgotten in an instant. I have not had anything fall off though, and having looked at a new car recently, they are finished much better. In general I am a Lotus fan.
I am not such a Porsche fan, but they are great cars, and when you look at them in detail they are beautifully put together...so much so that when new it is a shame to get them dirty. I have however put a deposit down on a new Boxster S to be my company car (I currently have a Jag XF?), so I keep my Evora, as my Sunday driver, and the Boxster is my daily drive. I test drove the Boxster and it was good and the PDK gearbox was excellent, but I have to admit I did not come away thinking I have to have one of these. The reason I have plumped for it is that there is nothing else which is convertible (which I want) that can compare, but all the time I had an itch to get an Exige and to hell with it...but common sense won and whence the Boxster...but maybe not, I am exploring the Exige convertible now and I might loose my deposit on the Boxster, but I will probably return to the Porsche when I think about getting into the Exige at 10pm at night in the pouring rain??
Yes I know I should have the Evora for my daily driver and an Exige for the weekend, but that will cost me more.
Oh yes, some have said the Cayman is faster...hmmm, you`ll be splitting hairs, and looking at the Autocar/Autoexpress comparison on YouTube, the journo complained the Evora understeered??? Its so well set up, you can do anything with it, it`s like a go-kart...understeer...only if you do not know how to drive it!
Anyhow, they are both superb. The Porsche has a far more mature interior, although when you analyse it the Lotus still has all the kit and there is nothing wrong with it. The Lotus is a more driver focused car, but to most the Porsche is still very good, and it is. As for reliability, I do not think there is much in it. Lotus is a low volume manufacturer, Porsche are still relatively low volume, but they make considerably more cars than Lotus. I feel when I buy a Porsche I am getting a more mainstream car and more for my money...from a positive point of view, whereas the Lotus is more of a mature specialist builder for which you feel you have to sometimes make excuses.
Overall I will support Lotus because they are a more focused sports car and I am a Norfolk carrot cruncher! Most will buy Porsche because of the perceived value, but once you drive a Lotus for any time you will realise just how good they are and you will begin to question why?...unless you just want to drive a badge (and Porsche is pretty damn good!), and for some that is enough and good luck to them.
Oh yes, Lotus are rubbish at Marketing!
I have a 2011 Evora S which is largely a weekend and touring car and I think it is fantastic. I have also tweaked it to 390hp...
It does have some minor trim/build quality issues, i.e. a few things not lining up quite perfectly and the drivers seat squeaks a bit over bad surfaces when I am bouncing up and down. These things are annoying until you come to a series of bends and you have activated the sport button, then all is forgotten in an instant. I have not had anything fall off though, and having looked at a new car recently, they are finished much better. In general I am a Lotus fan.
I am not such a Porsche fan, but they are great cars, and when you look at them in detail they are beautifully put together...so much so that when new it is a shame to get them dirty. I have however put a deposit down on a new Boxster S to be my company car (I currently have a Jag XF?), so I keep my Evora, as my Sunday driver, and the Boxster is my daily drive. I test drove the Boxster and it was good and the PDK gearbox was excellent, but I have to admit I did not come away thinking I have to have one of these. The reason I have plumped for it is that there is nothing else which is convertible (which I want) that can compare, but all the time I had an itch to get an Exige and to hell with it...but common sense won and whence the Boxster...but maybe not, I am exploring the Exige convertible now and I might loose my deposit on the Boxster, but I will probably return to the Porsche when I think about getting into the Exige at 10pm at night in the pouring rain??
Yes I know I should have the Evora for my daily driver and an Exige for the weekend, but that will cost me more.
Oh yes, some have said the Cayman is faster...hmmm, you`ll be splitting hairs, and looking at the Autocar/Autoexpress comparison on YouTube, the journo complained the Evora understeered??? Its so well set up, you can do anything with it, it`s like a go-kart...understeer...only if you do not know how to drive it!
Anyhow, they are both superb. The Porsche has a far more mature interior, although when you analyse it the Lotus still has all the kit and there is nothing wrong with it. The Lotus is a more driver focused car, but to most the Porsche is still very good, and it is. As for reliability, I do not think there is much in it. Lotus is a low volume manufacturer, Porsche are still relatively low volume, but they make considerably more cars than Lotus. I feel when I buy a Porsche I am getting a more mainstream car and more for my money...from a positive point of view, whereas the Lotus is more of a mature specialist builder for which you feel you have to sometimes make excuses.
Overall I will support Lotus because they are a more focused sports car and I am a Norfolk carrot cruncher! Most will buy Porsche because of the perceived value, but once you drive a Lotus for any time you will realise just how good they are and you will begin to question why?...unless you just want to drive a badge (and Porsche is pretty damn good!), and for some that is enough and good luck to them.
Oh yes, Lotus are rubbish at Marketing!
unpc said:
Part of just died inside that you judge a car launch on quality of the canapés. Ok it was piss poor not having the launch car at the actual launch but you get my drift...
The canapes were of no interest to me. It was merely setting the scene for you. Otherwise it would be like opening the first page of a murder mystery to read a line saying, "It was the vicar, in the dining room, with the candlestick". The point was: Porsche did the launch properly. Every i was dotted, every T was crossed.
Lotus couldn't organise a p1ss up in a brewery.
The general ethos sadly comes across in the products on many occasions also.
Edited by Shnozz on Wednesday 9th April 16:38
kambites said:
I don't generally get any attention from anyone over the age of about 12 in the Elise. The only exception has been when I've driven into London for some reason - then you get foreign tourists taking pictures of you.
Oddly neither of my Elises (S1 and then S2) brought a huge amount of attention, whereas the Exiges attract a massive amount. Really odd given it's the same car with a roof and a wing.Shnozz said:
The canapes were of no interest to me. It was merely setting the scene for you. Otherwise it would be like opening the first page of a murder mystery to read a line saying, "It was the vicar, in the dining room, with the candlestick".
The point was: Porsche did the launch properly. Every i was dotted, every T was crossed.
Lotus couldn't organise a p1ss up in a brewery.
The general ethos sadly comes across in the products on many occasions also.
Sounds to me like it was the same dealer who got it right for Porsche and fThe point was: Porsche did the launch properly. Every i was dotted, every T was crossed.
Lotus couldn't organise a p1ss up in a brewery.
The general ethos sadly comes across in the products on many occasions also.
Edited by Shnozz on Wednesday 9th April 16:38
ked it up for Lotus (apart from the car not being there, that is).
The fact that Lotus didn't get the car being launched to the launch was, in my humble opinion, a small part of the issue as to why the event was less than impressive. I appreciate my expectations might be a little too high but I expect the car being launched to be present at a launch event.Jesus Christ.
Sway said:
To save people the hassle of trying to find a thread that doesn't exist, the news story on the first page has been updated - even though the title remains the same...
Wondering why he didn't put the kid behind the passenger seat - whipped much?!
Ha! I thought it only fair, given that the whole expedition was my idea and all. If you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is, etc...Wondering why he didn't put the kid behind the passenger seat - whipped much?!
Cheers,
Dan
I like to think it was generosity of spirit!
And the nipper is 15 months and ... the size of a 15 month-old. Sorry, don't have any context beyond what I've got. I wouldn't have said there's room for anyone much bigger than that and with the seat in front furthest forward on its runners there wasn't a whole lot of clearance between the kid seat (Britax in this case) and the back of the front seat.
Blimey, all gone a bit Mumsnet here hasn't it!
Car is ruddy fast too, I'll give it that.
There, order restored. Or at least put back on course!
Dan
And the nipper is 15 months and ... the size of a 15 month-old. Sorry, don't have any context beyond what I've got. I wouldn't have said there's room for anyone much bigger than that and with the seat in front furthest forward on its runners there wasn't a whole lot of clearance between the kid seat (Britax in this case) and the back of the front seat.
Blimey, all gone a bit Mumsnet here hasn't it!
Car is ruddy fast too, I'll give it that.
There, order restored. Or at least put back on course!
Dan
Sway said:
Seems my statement stands!
If you don't mind me asking, how old is your kid and how tall?
As I have two, even with my alpha male characteristics (we have one car in our household and it's a two seater...) if I ever do get an Evora I'll have to squeeze one of them in behind me.
I use mine on the school runIf you don't mind me asking, how old is your kid and how tall?
As I have two, even with my alpha male characteristics (we have one car in our household and it's a two seater...) if I ever do get an Evora I'll have to squeeze one of them in behind me.
14 year old daughter (tall for age) in the front
13 year old daughters friend (average height) in the rear and its no problem.
Because my daughter is tall about 5'5" she is a bit too big for the back seat, its not so much a legroom issue more of an issue with the length of her body and the height between the squab and the roof. She can use the back seat but tends to go at an angle across the car. The lack of a tunnel makes it a bit more flexible than a 911 in that respect, but overall a 911 is probably a tad more useful in the back.
My personal opinion with no actual facts, I believe that there are 2 main reasons that Lotus doesn’t sell a bucket load of these or any model;
1. The Motoring Media (esp UK) is determined to tell everyone “The cars are brilliant but Lotus is going broke up any minute!” Talk about self-realising destruction!
2. The World’s traditionally largest (pun intended) market is too fat to fit and don’t really care about driver engagement @ 25mph (any road with a corner is a hazard!).
I don’t think the price really matters; Perception is reality and any price is riskier than mass-produced German “people’s perambulators” regardless of how good it actually is. I understand what Danny Bahar was trying to do: Creating confidence that Lotus has a plan and is on the ascendancy... just not the way he when about it (Muppet).
1. The Motoring Media (esp UK) is determined to tell everyone “The cars are brilliant but Lotus is going broke up any minute!” Talk about self-realising destruction!
2. The World’s traditionally largest (pun intended) market is too fat to fit and don’t really care about driver engagement @ 25mph (any road with a corner is a hazard!).
I don’t think the price really matters; Perception is reality and any price is riskier than mass-produced German “people’s perambulators” regardless of how good it actually is. I understand what Danny Bahar was trying to do: Creating confidence that Lotus has a plan and is on the ascendancy... just not the way he when about it (Muppet).
Yes difficult to know what the Malaysians are going to do with/make of it. They have restructured the finances very recently and there is no lack of clout behind them/Lotus, but the bigger concern is what is their market place? I guess they have two potential directions...basic lower price bespoke sports cars, or go back the Esprit type products...but the competitive products are very different to what they faced 30 odd years ago. I must admit one or two of the Danny Bahar era concepts were stunning, and Lotus do have the know how to develop these cars, and Asia is a potentially massive market place, probably enough for all, and given the relatively high profile of F1 they could make something of it.
I would have thought they could relatively cheaply revamp the Evora structure into a highly competitive 911 car, aimed at new market territories (where the 911 kudos is relatively unknown). Who knows...they might even shut down car production one day and concentrate on the bit where they excel and make money...sub contract engineering services to the automotive industry?
Someone asked the question...390hp...yeah for me quite an improvement, the car now accelerates in fourth as it did in 3rd, but as we all know you can never have enough power and given such a superb chassis, it can handle more, although I think the standard car is a very well balanced set up. Oh yes, the fuel consumption has improved a bit when cruising aswell. A Cayman is a bit better though in this respect.
I would have thought they could relatively cheaply revamp the Evora structure into a highly competitive 911 car, aimed at new market territories (where the 911 kudos is relatively unknown). Who knows...they might even shut down car production one day and concentrate on the bit where they excel and make money...sub contract engineering services to the automotive industry?
Someone asked the question...390hp...yeah for me quite an improvement, the car now accelerates in fourth as it did in 3rd, but as we all know you can never have enough power and given such a superb chassis, it can handle more, although I think the standard car is a very well balanced set up. Oh yes, the fuel consumption has improved a bit when cruising aswell. A Cayman is a bit better though in this respect.
Driving back from JCT600 in Leeds back home to London last year with a friend, my son called me on route from Notts University asking if I could pick him up on the way through! He's 6' 1" tall, but he managed to fit himself in the rear seats, admittedly we had to push both front seats forward but also accommodated his laundry bags. The trip was 120 miles and took a couple of hour, it was really good fun and all three of us emerged non the worse for wear.
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