What is the least "PH" car?
Discussion
Being slightly controversial I think ALL cars are good PH'er cars. I was going to say anything with pistons but as electric cars don't have them I had to generalise even further. I enjoy having a go in any and every car. From knackered old 
boxes to exotica; they are all interesting in their way.
I haven't liked every car I've driven but that's not the point; I've enjoyed having a go in everything from a completely stipped out Beetle that a mate used to thrash around a quarry when no-one else was there (this was over 30 years ago when you could do such things without CCTV
) to a 1980's Corolla to Ferrari's. If the only car I could have was a Myvi I'd have one and thrash the bks off it to have some fun.
It'd be better than taking the bus...
boxes to exotica; they are all interesting in their way.I haven't liked every car I've driven but that's not the point; I've enjoyed having a go in everything from a completely stipped out Beetle that a mate used to thrash around a quarry when no-one else was there (this was over 30 years ago when you could do such things without CCTV
) to a 1980's Corolla to Ferrari's. If the only car I could have was a Myvi I'd have one and thrash the bks off it to have some fun. It'd be better than taking the bus...
ORD said:
Slightly off topic, but I wonder whether there is now a whole generation of drivers that has never encountered a proper throttle response or brake feel or steering feel so don't notice when it's missing.
The Fiestas and so on that I drove as a lad were like an Elise compared to the slushy, turbo eco boxes that young 'uns learn to drive. Might explain why they then aspire to an Audi rather than finding it actively unpleasant.
I was thinking that the other day, like the feeling when your steering goes light in your Sierra while going round a corner as it didn't have power steering.The Fiestas and so on that I drove as a lad were like an Elise compared to the slushy, turbo eco boxes that young 'uns learn to drive. Might explain why they then aspire to an Audi rather than finding it actively unpleasant.
RammyMP said:
ORD said:
Slightly off topic, but I wonder whether there is now a whole generation of drivers that has never encountered a proper throttle response or brake feel or steering feel so don't notice when it's missing.
The Fiestas and so on that I drove as a lad were like an Elise compared to the slushy, turbo eco boxes that young 'uns learn to drive. Might explain why they then aspire to an Audi rather than finding it actively unpleasant.
I was thinking that the other day, like the feeling when your steering goes light in your Sierra while going round a corner as it didn't have power steering.The Fiestas and so on that I drove as a lad were like an Elise compared to the slushy, turbo eco boxes that young 'uns learn to drive. Might explain why they then aspire to an Audi rather than finding it actively unpleasant.
It's a shame that anyone learning to drive these days won't enjoy the great pleasure to be had from a basic hatch designed in the 70s and 80s.
RammyMP said:
ORD said:
Slightly off topic, but I wonder whether there is now a whole generation of drivers that has never encountered a proper throttle response or brake feel or steering feel so don't notice when it's missing.
The Fiestas and so on that I drove as a lad were like an Elise compared to the slushy, turbo eco boxes that young 'uns learn to drive. Might explain why they then aspire to an Audi rather than finding it actively unpleasant.
I was thinking that the other day, like the feeling when your steering goes light in your Sierra while going round a corner as it didn't have power steering.The Fiestas and so on that I drove as a lad were like an Elise compared to the slushy, turbo eco boxes that young 'uns learn to drive. Might explain why they then aspire to an Audi rather than finding it actively unpleasant.
It's a conversation my wife and I often have. She hung on to her first car, an old Ford Ka, until very recently because she hated everything new that she drove. Likewise, I knew I loved driving because I was brought up on a diet of 700-800kg hatchbacks with unassisted controls and NSL country lanes with hardly any speed cameras. Both Mrs RobM77 and I are certain that if we passed our tests now and had to drive a Peugeot 208 or some other such car on the clogged 40 and 50mph limit roads we now have, we probably wouldn't enjoy driving at all.If I had to buy a hatchback, I would be sorely tempted to buy an old minter, rather than going anywhere near the 1300kg turbo shopping turds that people drive now. Give me something with hard plastics, crappy seats and about 100bhp from an NA engine.
I would love it if someone made a small, light electric car, too - perfect for use around town and could have a really low centre of gravity. The i3 and all other electric cars completely miss the opportunity to make an enjoyable town car.
I would love it if someone made a small, light electric car, too - perfect for use around town and could have a really low centre of gravity. The i3 and all other electric cars completely miss the opportunity to make an enjoyable town car.
ORD said:
I would love it if someone made a small, light electric car, too - perfect for use around town and could have a really low centre of gravity. The i3 and all other electric cars completely miss the opportunity to make an enjoyable town car.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_i-MiEV ?ORD said:
If I had to buy a hatchback, I would be sorely tempted to buy an old minter, rather than going anywhere near the 1300kg turbo shopping turds that people drive now. Give me something with hard plastics, crappy seats and about 100bhp from an NA engine.
I agree. Whilst I loved the 80s stuff, I think there was a sweet spot in the mid 90s where cars got better before they got really stty with all the drive by wire, bouncy underdamped suspension, woolly steering and grabby brakes that modern cars have. My personal hatchback pick would be a mint original condition 106 GTi 
Think back to 1995 - alongside the 106 GTi, in my opinion one of the best hot hatchbacks made, we had the NSX, the McLaren F1, the Lancia Delta Integrale and all sorts of other lovely things. Formula One had a mixture of V8s, V10s and a V12, so was technically interesting, and they all screamed and bellowed their way round the race tracks, requiring earplugs to be within a hundred metres of them at full chat. The car world has become so sanitised and dull in the last decade or so...kambites said:
A good shout. Definitely more along the right lines. But the charge time (22 hours) and power (66bhp) are a bit poor. Surprised to read that it has some steering feel. The other electric vehicles are very very un-PH. If we can take into account how they are driven, the Prius must be right up there. It is the most likely car I have seen to be driven by a MLM who runs red lights and can't steer for s
t (mini-cab drivers, for the most part). (Edited for confusing typo)
As part of my work I get to drive 2 or 3 different cars every day covering a huge spectrum of values and types. The two that stand out (or should that really be the least memorable) from over the last 12 months for being completely dull, not even good at the purpose they are designed for and having close to no redeeming features whatsoever are a 2014 Toyota Avensis Estate and a Vauxhall Insignia diesel. Complete 'white goods' cars with no feel good factor, no emotion, no style, no fun, nothing nothing nothing!
Even a Qashqai or a Picasso can delight in a miniscule way, make you think that 'hey, these aren't as bad as I thought' but the Avensis gets my gold medal for it's complete and utter sleep inducing magnificence.
Even a Qashqai or a Picasso can delight in a miniscule way, make you think that 'hey, these aren't as bad as I thought' but the Avensis gets my gold medal for it's complete and utter sleep inducing magnificence.
crostonian said:
As part of my work I get to drive 2 or 3 different cars every day covering a huge spectrum of values and types. The two that stand out (or should that really be the least memorable) from over the last 12 months for being completely dull, not even good at the purpose they are designed for and having close to no redeeming features whatsoever are a 2014 Toyota Avensis Estate and a Vauxhall Insignia diesel. Complete 'white goods' cars with no feel good factor, no emotion, no style, no fun, nothing nothing nothing!
Even a Qashqai or a Picasso can delight in a miniscule way, make you think that 'hey, these aren't as bad as I thought' but the Avensis gets my gold medal for it's complete and utter sleep inducing magnificence.
Maybe to drive. But as a supremely well built machine, pretty good I would have thought. I would gave thought the Insignia is worse - nothing it does is more than average.Even a Qashqai or a Picasso can delight in a miniscule way, make you think that 'hey, these aren't as bad as I thought' but the Avensis gets my gold medal for it's complete and utter sleep inducing magnificence.
SidewaysSi said:
crostonian said:
As part of my work I get to drive 2 or 3 different cars every day covering a huge spectrum of values and types. The two that stand out (or should that really be the least memorable) from over the last 12 months for being completely dull, not even good at the purpose they are designed for and having close to no redeeming features whatsoever are a 2014 Toyota Avensis Estate and a Vauxhall Insignia diesel. Complete 'white goods' cars with no feel good factor, no emotion, no style, no fun, nothing nothing nothing!
Even a Qashqai or a Picasso can delight in a miniscule way, make you think that 'hey, these aren't as bad as I thought' but the Avensis gets my gold medal for it's complete and utter sleep inducing magnificence.
Maybe to drive. But as a supremely well built machine, pretty good I would have thought. I would gave thought the Insignia is worse - nothing it does is more than average.Even a Qashqai or a Picasso can delight in a miniscule way, make you think that 'hey, these aren't as bad as I thought' but the Avensis gets my gold medal for it's complete and utter sleep inducing magnificence.
RobM77 said:
ORD said:
If I had to buy a hatchback, I would be sorely tempted to buy an old minter, rather than going anywhere near the 1300kg turbo shopping turds that people drive now. Give me something with hard plastics, crappy seats and about 100bhp from an NA engine.
I agree. Whilst I loved the 80s stuff, I think there was a sweet spot in the mid 90s where cars got better before they got really stty with all the drive by wire, bouncy underdamped suspension, woolly steering and grabby brakes that modern cars have. My personal hatchback pick would be a mint original condition 106 GTi Think back to 1995 - alongside the 106 GTi, in my opinion one of the best hot hatchbacks made, we had the NSX, the McLaren F1, the Lancia Delta Integrale and all sorts of other lovely things. Formula One had a mixture of V8s, V10s and a V12, so was technically interesting, and they all screamed and bellowed their way round the race tracks, requiring earplugs to be within a hundred metres of them at full chat. The car world has become so sanitised and dull in the last decade or so...A13 said:
Subaru Impreza WRX Estate
perhaps not Sure, they're not to my tastes at all, but a) it's a performance version of a more humble car b) they attract a loyal following and c) they have a competition heritage (or at least the saloon and hatch do). Surely that makes it a very PH car doesn't it?
T1berious said:
I put forward this absolute gem....
1300 Kg's \ 70 Bhp of WTF?
Hell No, I'll just walk.
These are ideal if you like to keep your car in the garage, but have a garage built around the dimensions of a 1960s/70s car as you can actually get out of them when the car is put away. I can't think of much else to commend them over anything else admittedly.1300 Kg's \ 70 Bhp of WTF?
Hell No, I'll just walk.
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