RE: New Porsche Cayman R Revealed
Discussion
havoc said:
Wills2 said:
Can we get this back OT please?....The 911 discuss.....
OK, who has driven a Cayman and a 911 back-to-back? Who went on to buy the 911? And who the Cayman?!?
I do like the "confined" feel of the cockpit in the Cayman with the bulkhead right behind which gives it a more sportcar feel but given a Cayman with a bigger lump, I would be happy with that!
squeezebm said:
havoc said:
Wills2 said:
Can we get this back OT please?....The 911 discuss.....
OK, who has driven a Cayman and a 911 back-to-back? Who went on to buy the 911? And who the Cayman?!?
havoc said:
squeezebm said:
havoc said:
Wills2 said:
Can we get this back OT please?....The 911 discuss.....
OK, who has driven a Cayman and a 911 back-to-back? Who went on to buy the 911? And who the Cayman?!?
adycav said:
havoc said:
squeezebm said:
havoc said:
Wills2 said:
Can we get this back OT please?....The 911 discuss.....
OK, who has driven a Cayman and a 911 back-to-back? Who went on to buy the 911? And who the Cayman?!?
kambites said:
jellison said:
Now that is Alot. Anyone do a blower for the Cayman or anyone dropped a GT3 lump in one?
I think I remember reading about an after market supercharger kit, somewhere?Edited by juansolo on Thursday 18th November 15:00
RobM77 said:
Porscheplayer said:
havoc said:
Porscheplayer said:
HAB said:
RobM77 said:
I don't see why the things I mentioned for improvement on the Cayman couldn't be applied to the standard Cayman and S models. The GT3 is another step on, and really a fast road and track day car, I was thinking more of improvements for the standard model. I don't think steering feel, a responsive throttle or a better driving position are "hardcore" - they're just things I would expect from Porsche but which they don't deliver.
With respect, your repeated 'improvements' are purely opinion, and completely subjective. In fact, given from my own experiences, what I've heard first hand from Cayman owners, and the media in general; your views on the Caymans weaknesses are not one shared by very many. I've come to the conclusion they seem to be something that exist for a few on PH, but not in the real world! Don't get me wrong - every car has much room for improvement, but it's harder to make on overall well-rounded package, than something that excels in one or two areas. And overall, as an ownership prospect the Cayman is very, very good and arguably the best in it's class. They don't really do it for me, (mainly the looks, and a little too modern/refined) but I can appreciate why they're so highly regarded.
I also find this 'They won't develop it, because it would usurp the 911' attitude distinctly odd. Nearly every marque has a model hierarchy - why on earth would Porsche be any different?
However, given the history of the 'R' moniker in Porsches history, the Cayman R is possibly one of the most cynical marketing exercises they've ever done (and that's saying something)
Edited by HAB on Wednesday 17th November 17:21
- Road-testers won't moan about a car too much as manufacturers have been known to take offence. Plus most cars are heading the same way, so compared against the current competition there's not a lot better. Doesn't mean it's right though - compare steering, throttle-response and ride quality vs a 1990s supercar like a 993 or an NSX and you'll realise how bad modern cars really are!
- Owners won't always give you a 'warts and all' opinion as they won't want people to think they've bought the wrong car - particularly owners of 'image' cars (which Porsche most definitely are). Plus how many owners actually go out and test-drive half the competition before buying their car - many buy on looks, image and maybe road-tests!
I call it how I see it, doesn't matter if I own the car or not.
There are a few things wrong the Cayman, but the driving position isn't one of them, neither is the throttle response.
I think you’re looking through rose tintes glass with older cars, the NSX is turd compared to a modern Porsche GT3, its very tinny and slow by modern standards
Driving position This may be fine for you, but it's not for me. If I adjust the seat so my feet can operate the pedals comfortably, then I can't reach the steering wheel - the wheel needs another 3 inches reach adjustment on it. I'm not that unique - I expect Kambites from this thread would have the same issue - we both had to modify our Elises due to this problem.
throttle lag. There is one - end of story. To demo this, just approach a corner in a Cayman, brake before the corner, then transfer your foot from the brake to the accelerator as you turn in and set the balance. There will be a small time delay between your foot touching the throttle and the engine responding, causing a dead zone where the balance moves to oversteer. It's on all modern BMWs too.
Your comment on the NSX is a bit harsh. Yes, it wasn't that fast in its day and it certainly isn't now, but it is an utterly sublime drive.
i appreciate what you are saying, as i have an integrale evo 1 with less power than the Legacy but it will go round corners faster that even most modern day cars and the Legacy, and its 20 years old !
juansolo said:
The point is that my Juno cost an insignificant fraction of just about any supercar you can think of yet will be faster around a track. Would that make the guy in the Scuderia feel somehow inadequate or that he'd made a catastrophic error in buying a Ferrari? No of course not. Because people don't buy cars just because one is faster and cheaper than the other. For a great many people it's way down the list of priorities
I'm also quite aware that most hot hatches these days will tear my 2.7 Cayman a new one. In fact a lot of modern TDs will be quicker when it comes to in-gear acceleration. Oddly I couldn't desire a hot hatch less and really don't want a TD barge. It's about how a car drives and makes you feel. I strongly recommend you have a go in a bog standard Elise S with the little engine. After a little while, you'll understand what we mean. Speed isn't everything.
I'm also quite aware that most hot hatches these days will tear my 2.7 Cayman a new one. In fact a lot of modern TDs will be quicker when it comes to in-gear acceleration. Oddly I couldn't desire a hot hatch less and really don't want a TD barge. It's about how a car drives and makes you feel. I strongly recommend you have a go in a bog standard Elise S with the little engine. After a little while, you'll understand what we mean. Speed isn't everything.
sledge68 said:
ok, the guy was simling and put a thumbs up, and he was trying, maybe he was humouring me, he seemed to be trying to beat me,
my point was this new car is no quicker than my 13 yr old car that cost me £2000
and an unrestricted GTb will see 165mph
aggreed to disagree
Martin
my point was this new car is no quicker than my 13 yr old car that cost me £2000
and an unrestricted GTb will see 165mph
aggreed to disagree
Martin
Edited by juansolo on Thursday 18th November 07:15
juansolo said:
squeezebm said:
havoc said:
Wills2 said:
Can we get this back OT please?....The 911 discuss.....
OK, who has driven a Cayman and a 911 back-to-back? Who went on to buy the 911? And who the Cayman?!?
whythem said:
Beefmeister said:
whythem said:
£52K! I wonder if its faster round a track than a 6mth old 997S, which has the luxuries, better looks and kudos.
- <- the point______________________________________________you ->
FesterNath said:
RobM77 said:
Porscheplayer said:
havoc said:
Porscheplayer said:
HAB said:
RobM77 said:
I don't see why the things I mentioned for improvement on the Cayman couldn't be applied to the standard Cayman and S models. The GT3 is another step on, and really a fast road and track day car, I was thinking more of improvements for the standard model. I don't think steering feel, a responsive throttle or a better driving position are "hardcore" - they're just things I would expect from Porsche but which they don't deliver.
With respect, your repeated 'improvements' are purely opinion, and completely subjective. In fact, given from my own experiences, what I've heard first hand from Cayman owners, and the media in general; your views on the Caymans weaknesses are not one shared by very many. I've come to the conclusion they seem to be something that exist for a few on PH, but not in the real world! Don't get me wrong - every car has much room for improvement, but it's harder to make on overall well-rounded package, than something that excels in one or two areas. And overall, as an ownership prospect the Cayman is very, very good and arguably the best in it's class. They don't really do it for me, (mainly the looks, and a little too modern/refined) but I can appreciate why they're so highly regarded.
I also find this 'They won't develop it, because it would usurp the 911' attitude distinctly odd. Nearly every marque has a model hierarchy - why on earth would Porsche be any different?
However, given the history of the 'R' moniker in Porsches history, the Cayman R is possibly one of the most cynical marketing exercises they've ever done (and that's saying something)
Edited by HAB on Wednesday 17th November 17:21
- Road-testers won't moan about a car too much as manufacturers have been known to take offence. Plus most cars are heading the same way, so compared against the current competition there's not a lot better. Doesn't mean it's right though - compare steering, throttle-response and ride quality vs a 1990s supercar like a 993 or an NSX and you'll realise how bad modern cars really are!
- Owners won't always give you a 'warts and all' opinion as they won't want people to think they've bought the wrong car - particularly owners of 'image' cars (which Porsche most definitely are). Plus how many owners actually go out and test-drive half the competition before buying their car - many buy on looks, image and maybe road-tests!
I call it how I see it, doesn't matter if I own the car or not.
There are a few things wrong the Cayman, but the driving position isn't one of them, neither is the throttle response.
I think you’re looking through rose tintes glass with older cars, the NSX is turd compared to a modern Porsche GT3, its very tinny and slow by modern standards
Driving position This may be fine for you, but it's not for me. If I adjust the seat so my feet can operate the pedals comfortably, then I can't reach the steering wheel - the wheel needs another 3 inches reach adjustment on it. I'm not that unique - I expect Kambites from this thread would have the same issue - we both had to modify our Elises due to this problem.
throttle lag. There is one - end of story. To demo this, just approach a corner in a Cayman, brake before the corner, then transfer your foot from the brake to the accelerator as you turn in and set the balance. There will be a small time delay between your foot touching the throttle and the engine responding, causing a dead zone where the balance moves to oversteer. It's on all modern BMWs too.
Your comment on the NSX is a bit harsh. Yes, it wasn't that fast in its day and it certainly isn't now, but it is an utterly sublime drive.
Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 18th November 19:14
jellison said:
I am fairly conversamt with going properly fast.
Anyone who would take a Cayman over a 7litre C6 Corvette ain't a Petrolhead.
Don't get me wrong they are nice, just not enough power to weight and Noise for the money.
That's like comparing a TVR with a Cayman, they are not in the same market. You could not replace your Cayman with a Corvette or Corvette with a Cayman. The Corvette is a one trick pony, fantastic for an adrehnalin filled ride every now and then but ridiculous as a suggestion to turn up in the office carpark every day and do 12k miles a year in. Anyone who would take a Cayman over a 7litre C6 Corvette ain't a Petrolhead.
Don't get me wrong they are nice, just not enough power to weight and Noise for the money.
If you are going to go the !!POWER!! route and pick an argument about cross over sports cars then a second hand 996 or 997 turbo would make more sense as its fast enough to play the big power game but reliable and comfortable enough to use every day. Plus you could take your pick for the price of a new Cayman with the same options ticked.
That said, I still don't think you can compare them like for like. I might not own them both at the same time but I wouldn't replace a Cayman with a 911 turbo or vice versa. It's playing a different game.
Niffty951 said:
jellison said:
I am fairly conversamt with going properly fast.
Anyone who would take a Cayman over a 7litre C6 Corvette ain't a Petrolhead.
Don't get me wrong they are nice, just not enough power to weight and Noise for the money.
That's like comparing a TVR with a Cayman, they are not in the same market. You could not replace your Cayman with a Corvette or Corvette with a Cayman. The Corvette is a one trick pony, fantastic for an adrehnalin filled ride every now and then but ridiculous as a suggestion to turn up in the office carpark every day and do 12k miles a year in. Anyone who would take a Cayman over a 7litre C6 Corvette ain't a Petrolhead.
Don't get me wrong they are nice, just not enough power to weight and Noise for the money.
If you are going to go the !!POWER!! route and pick an argument about cross over sports cars then a second hand 996 or 997 turbo would make more sense as its fast enough to play the big power game but reliable and comfortable enough to use every day. Plus you could take your pick for the price of a new Cayman with the same options ticked.
That said, I still don't think you can compare them like for like. I might not own them both at the same time but I wouldn't replace a Cayman with a 911 turbo or vice versa. It's playing a different game.
Jellison: Fair point, but you must realise that not everyone has the same tastes. Not everybody just wants power and noise.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff