RE: BMW M135i vs Audi S3

[kambites]

copperman05 said:

The car runs fine on 95RON but BMW recommend 98+RON.

Seems to be the case with most modern turbocharged cars (including the Audi in the article above, I suspect). I wonder if they're allowed to run the EU fuel economy tests on 98RON if they recommend it to owners?

[pilchardthecat]

Does it have knock detection? Is the 320hp on 98 or 95? Wonder if this explains the higher output on the dyno

The S54 engine loses 20+ horses running 95

[VeeFource]

pilchardthecat said:

Does it have knock detection?

Most modern engines use knock detection so no doubt the M135i would have it being a direct injection & turbocharged & performance engine

Edited by VeeFource on Saturday 21st September 16:48

[elementad]

My 370z (which is a 328bhp NA V6 engine) runs on 98 RON although it says in the hand book that you can put 95 in as a last resort to get you back.
I tend to stick to optimax or whatever it's called these days. I'm sure it would be fine on 95 but if you've spent so much on a performance car why scrimp on the fuel it was designed for.

[original guvnor]

I feel I have to stick up for Pilchard here. I've driven the M135i and I actually think it is a little cracker of a car. But, and it is a big but, it just doesn't have a "glorious finale" if like he, and I, you are used to an S54 engine. It isn't only sound, it's the feel of a load of extra power coming on song, rewarding you for hanging on to 7,900 rpm. That is a glorious finale.

The S54 didn't need a sound symposer, or whatever it is called, in the audio system either.

http://f20.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78...

But as I said above, don't think I don't like the M135i. I do, very much.

[copperman05]

But you have to remember the article writer is not referring to the S54, he is discussing the N55 in a direct comparison with the Audi engine,

he writes '(Audi) it doesn't feel 10 per cent up on power compared with the Megane 265 or Focus ST. And lacks the M135i's 'OMG' punch. It also seems to headbutt its limiter very hard and about 500rpm sooner than you expect, the traditionally undersquare design happier at low revs than close to the redline. Which, unfortunately, is just where the BMW has a glorious finale to its power band, its revvier oversquare nature and six-cylinder balance really coming through. On a test drive that'd seal it, especially if you've got the Audi in the 'Dynamic' engine noise mode that sounds more like a misfire.'

If he describes the Audi of hitting its limiter earlier than expected then I'm not surprised he thinks the N55 shines in comparison. He is also stating that back to back drives (where this comparison is made) the sound/feel of the N55 engine would seal it.

So no perhaps it doesnt have the glorious finale of the S54 but to be honest thats not what the journalist is saying....

[vit4]

I'm sure it's lovely in the flesh, but the Audi's interior looks alarmingly similar to that of a facelift Rover 45. I am on my phone though, so small pics.

[TerryCTR]

George29 said:

I tested the M135i and I found it a bit dull.

S3 3 door with S-Tronic gearbox for me. Shame it's so expensive, I specced one up to match my current S3 and it came to over £37k. Will wait for a lightly used one at sub-£30k I think.

Have you tried drive the deal, last time I checked the discount was £2.8k with no options yet ticked

[scherzkeks]

b0rk said:

Not sure if it will the pair will basically have been developed together so can't see VW offering anything significantly different. Haldex maps, spring rates could I suppose be slightly revised but the short 6 month lag between S3 launch and Golf R launch doesn't really offer much extra time for further development. Considering GTI performance pack pricing I'm struggling to see where the R will slot in vs S3.
The lack of steering feel is common across the range of new VAG products so can't see that being addressed.

The Golf R will (as is normal)be a watered-down S3. It will have similar performance but will fall a bit short in the weight and dynamics departments, I think. The S3 always uses more lightweight suspension components.

[George29]

TerryCTR said:

Have you tried drive the deal, last time I checked the discount was £2.8k with no options yet ticked

I haven't. I'm still waiting on the demo car to come into my local Audi dealer before I even discuss figures, I just did it online and at RRP it came to £37k.

That was with £2k spent on custom paint though!

[ZesPak]

I do have to echo some of the comments here above.

The 1-series might be very capable, but I don't think I could spend that much on a car and then have to look at something like that. Call me superficial, but I'd rather have something that will make me turn back everytime I get out of it.

As for the Audi, that just looks too bland.

Those aren't the cars for me unfortunately.

[Vladimir]

I'd say the Golf will be MORE of a drivers car than the S3; and that has always been the case and is why when I was set on an S3 in 2003, I tried an R32 and bought that instead. It was far more fun to drive.
VW can do chassis dynamics (GTI), Audi generally can't.

[scherzkeks]

Vladimir said:

I'd say the Golf will be MORE of a drivers car than the S3; and that has always been the case and is why when I was set on an S3 in 2003, I tried an R32 and bought that instead. It was far more fun to drive.
VW can do chassis dynamics (GTI), Audi generally can't.

Good troll. Would read again.

[Dr Imran T]

One thing that is very clear from this thread is that the looks of the BMW aren't great. With that in mind, can anyone confirm how successful the 135i has been?

Has it deterred many people from buying the car?

I personally hated the E65 7 Series when it came out but quite like it now. I wonder whether the 135i will mature well with age!

[Lowtimer]

There are plenty of new 1-series out on the roads so it obviously hasn't been crippled by its looks. However the forthcoming nose job on the LCI facelift, as previewed on spy shots of the 2-series 2-door coupe version, will improve it tremendously.

[ZesPak]

Lowtimer said:

There are plenty of new 1-series out on the roads so it obviously hasn't been crippled by its looks. However the forthcoming nose job on the LCI facelift, as previewed on spy shots of the 2-series 2-door coupe version, will improve it tremendously.

[tinfoilhat]

I often wonder that car manufacturers, and in particular BMW, just create a car that looks "meh" or has a face that just has something wrong, just so they can fix it in the facelift and push people over the edge.

I mean, did they really think, hey let's put out this small hatchback, take a step back and thought, yes, this looks good:



I find that very hard to believe.

[/tinfoilhat]

[Wolands Advocate]

original guvnor said:

I feel I have to stick up for Pilchard here. I've driven the M135i and I actually think it is a little cracker of a car. But, and it is a big but, it just doesn't have a "glorious finale" if like he, and I, you are used to an S54 engine. It isn't only sound, it's the feel of a load of extra power coming on song, rewarding you for hanging on to 7,900 rpm. That is a glorious finale.

The S54 didn't need a sound symposer, or whatever it is called, in the audio system either.

http://f20.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78...

But as I said above, don't think I don't like the M135i. I do, very much.

I have owned a 135i coupe AND an M135i. The engines are not as similar as all that. Firstly it depends whether the 135i is N54 or N55-powered - they aren't that similar to begin with. And then you can't assume that one performs like the other. Inter alia, the M135i has significantly better throttle response and significantly more going on higher up the rev range. It has a rawer, more urgent edge to it. I'd agree it hasn't got the old NA BMW straight six sense of "come onto song" above a certain number of revs - for example it's not as satisfying to wind out to the red line as the (half as powerful) M20 in my Z1 in that sense. But it's certainly not the case that there is no point in doing so. And it sounds good in the process too. At that point I'm not sure the sound symposer is what you're hearing anymore either.

It's not really a good idea to cast aspersions on something you haven't driven. The 135i didn't attract a quarter of the attention the M135i has. That's not simply a question of hype.

[nickfrog]

Wow. An opinion formed on actual experience of the cars/engines in question. Is that Pilchard bloke listening ?

[pilchardthecat]

nickfrog said:

Wow. An opinion formed on actual experience of the cars/engines in question. Is that Pilchard bloke listening ?

No. Not listening. la la la la la la la.

I heard the bit about it being not as good an an old normally aspirated straight 6.

I'm not sure why but i made a one (valid, IMO) criticism of FI engines being less fizzy at the top end and not having a glorious finale, and everyone seems to have heard "pilchard hates this car"... i actually have the M235i/M2 on my shortlist for my next daily driver

Still, this is the right place for an argument



No it isn't, yes it is, etc

[kambites]

pilchardthecat said:

I'm not sure why but i made a one (valid, IMO) criticism of FI engines being less fizzy at the top end and not having a glorious finale, and everyone seems to have heard "pilchard hates this car"... i actually have the M235i/M2 on my shortlist for my next daily driver

This seems to happen every time anyone dares to criticise any aspect of anything made by BMW or Porsche. Not sure why, but if you say "I don't like the shade of blue that BMW is shown in" you are automatically a rabid irrational hater of the brand.