RE: New BMW M3 - details

[Bladedancer]

DCT will be cost extra but because more people will go for it it will be worth less when you're selling it and manuals are so rare

[Lowtimer]

As with the 996 Turbo, and eventually the 997 Turbo will go the same way. The rare manual cars will be the sought-after ones.

[wheelsmith]

kambites said:

Fair enough, I was just wondering where you actually did these "higher speeds". I've driven some fairly powerful cars so I know how they drive - I wasn't debating that.

Of course power overcomes drag in the same way it overcomes weight. The point was that a very slippery (or small) 300bhp car weighing a tonne will pull identically at all speeds to a brick-shaped 450bhp one weighing one and a half tonnes. The power figure itself means nothing unless you intend to tow or carry really heavy loads.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 26th September 08:05

You're talking rubbish, sporty cars(the sort of vehicles we are actually talking about) are not built brick shaped and although the coefficient of drag varies slightly, big power means big speeds.
Are you arguing just for the sake of it or more likely you own a car with good/power to weight but lowish overall power and are trying to justify it
You've obviously not owned something with a loads of power, prefect example is the 400bhp M5, try catching one of them past 80 in something with less than 300bhp slippery shape or not

[161BMW]

Lowtimer said:

As with the 996 Turbo, and eventually the 997 Turbo will go the same way. The rare manual cars will be the sought-after ones.

I am all for new technology but generally as the years go by people wonder why when speccong these new people didn't choose manual over SMGII/DCT/Tiptronic/PDK/Ferrari F1 Shift etc

[bobberz]

Kawasicki said:

bobberz said:

Kawasicki said:

The saloon car will be called the M3
The coupe with be called the m4

The first M3 was a saloon only (albeit a two door one) so I suppose calling the the next saloon model an M3 is reasonable.

Why wouldn't the e30 M3 "two door saloon" be considered a coupe, but the newer ones are?

The first 3 series coupe was the E36. The E30 2dr and 4dr bodies have the same roof. AFAIK they were both E30 2dr and 4drs were both called saloons/sedans/limousines within BMW.

I guess it's all down to an individual's interpretation of "coupe". For me, if it's got two doors and doesn't have a hatch, it's a coupe. however, I'd argue that, say, a Corvette is still a coupe, despite its glass hatch opening. Reminds me of how you could enter a McLaren F1 in the "Hot Hatch" tournament in Gran Turismo 5 !

Oh, and I don't pay much attention to how companies classify their vehicles. I live in the country that came up with the terms "SUV", "Luxury Utility Vehicle", "Luxury Utility Truck", "Sport Utility Truck", and "Sport Luxury Utility Truck" (okay, I may have made that last one up. ) Along with "Crossover", "Crossover Utility Vehicle", and that favorite of the Germans, the "4 door coupe", it's all nonsense.

[kambites]

wheelsmith said:

You're talking rubbish, sporty cars(the sort of vehicles we are actually talking about) are not built brick shaped and although the coefficient of drag varies slightly.

Of course, where did I say otherwise?

I wasn't aware that I was arguing at all? I thought we were having a reasoned debate? Maybe that's impossible on PH these days though, since everyone just seems to want to "willy wave" about their car.


ETA: And if you want me to catch an M5 in something <300bhp I can do that easily enough; just give me a super-bike.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 26th September 09:23

[161BMW]

The Crack Fox said:

Straight 6, RWD, manual box = win.

And LSD :-)

[Wills2]

Interesting to look at the B3 specs:

410hp/600nm 4.2 to 62mph and 190 mph, The new M3 has slightly more power at 430hp can't quote a torque figure as all they will say is far in excess of 500nm, why not just tell us what it is? But I expect it to be in the Alpina ball park?

The M3 should be about 30kg lighter, Alpina claim 1610kg for the saloon.

I think the numbers could show 62 in 4secs sub 9 sec to 100mph.

[Zod]

R5YUP said:

Zod said:

I also paid £49k in December 2002 for a very high spec SMG car after my first manual car was stolen. Cheap those E46s were not!

Crikey, how!! They were £38k base in 2002 and all you could really spec of any real financial note was SMG, Nav, 19's and HK!

Individual?

Yes, Individual, but only the paint. It had every extra, including the completely useless TrafficMaster.

[kars]

[Maldini35]

kars said:

I reckon they are made to wear clogs to try and replicate the inputs of monkeys like us.
They probably test drive in oven gloves too.

[Lowtimer]

Maldini35 said:

I reckon they are made to wear clogs to try and replicate the inputs of monkeys like us.
They probably test drive in oven gloves too.

Yep, as pioneered by our very own Monkey.

[MiseryStreak]

Is that Monkey by Night?

[lotusgeek]

99% sure I saw the new M3 in America at the beginning of June, doing some testing. It sounded absolutely awesome as the driver deployed an overtake whilst my brother and I jumped to take a photo.

I love NA cars but I reckon this one is going to be something special.

Bring on next year.

[Lowtimer]

Er, right. That pic seems to be misbehaving in mysterious ways. try this one.

[TREMAiNE]

Lowtimer said:

Er, right. That pic seems to be misbehaving in mysterious ways. try this one.

I made the same face watching this video!

[XM5ER]

Saw a new M3 at lunchtime today, heading away from Bluebell BMW in Wilmslow/Handforth. Still had long strips of that swirly disguise wrap on it. It looks far more Q than the previous two, but maybe thats because I've lost interest in the brand (cant explain why, I just have).

[pilchardthecat]

I'm cautiously optimistic. Redline is very high for a mass produced forced induction car. Anything north of 400bhp is plenty, as long as it's delivered in the right way - i just hope it's making more power at 7,500rpm than it is at 6,500rpm

The litmus test - does it have one of those silly sound symposer things that plays fake engine noises through the stereo? or have BMW found their mislaid plot again?

[Zod]

The engine noise through the stereo is not fake. It's the sound of the real engine. I'd rather they did it by removing sound-deadening materials, but at least it's not actually fake.

[aeropilot]

as7920 said:

161BMW said:

Is funny how most people on hear are glad they are offering manual. Yet those buyers of E92 M3 and there are a lot on Pistonheads mostly strongly prefer DCT paddleshift over BMW Manual Gearbox .... Why ?

So BMW can charge £2k for the privilege? Should be a no cost option.

Not sure what the statistics were but didn't autos overtake manual in new M3 sales towards the end of the run.

Timbergiant said:

BMW seem to have pandered to the Americans who think driving a "stick" makes you a man.

^This. They offered the E60 M5 in manual for the. US market and not the UK and probably were the driving factor for a manual in the F10 M5 too.

What's really amusing is that the offer the manual M5's in the USA because of the 'stigma' of the you're not a real man if you can't drive a stick, and yet they get a worse car as the broad torque spead of the engine makes a 6 speed manual a less suitable match to the engine, which is why DCT is the better option.
It will be the same with the new M3/4, the DCT will be a better match for the turbo'd engine characteristics than an antiquated manual gearbox.
Shame the the DCT will likely be a 2 grand option here, compared with it being a couple of hundred dollar option in the USA