RE: Evora S Sports Racer: Intro
Discussion
Nohedes said:
blueg33 said:
Lotus is an enthusiasts brand Porsche is a status brand.
A bit harsh. Porsche has one of the most enthusiastic followings of any marque, a rich motorsport heritage and they do things their own way (e.g. rear engined, boxer engines). Not everyone who drives a Porsche does so for what you would see as fatuous reasons. I wonder whether, were the sales success situation reversed, Lotus would be criticised and Porsche would be seen as the plucky underdog?
blueg33 said:
The only real exposure Lotus gets is through F1 where Porsche are not represented.
Well if we're talking about the last 20 years, I think we can safely say there's more prestige in Porsche's sports car racing efforts than that of Lotus. Just what is their contribution to the Lotus F1 team these days?blueg33 said:
Interstingly, I find it less contentious to arrive at business meetings in the Evora than I did in a 911.
I can honestly away I don't think I've ever been to a business meeting where anyone would have even known what car I arrived in, never mind it becoming an issue?!This thread seems to have gone full circle. A couple of ill informed anti-Lotus comments at the start have morphed into quite a bit of generic mud slinging at Porsche in general. We've had* 'all Porsche drivers are knobs', 'all Porsche drivers are non-enthusiasts', 'all Porsche drivers are more interested in interior plastics than handling' and 'all Porsche engines blow up/melt' (* obviously paraphrased but accurate of sentiment). Get a grip guys, you don't have to hate one to love the other!
Still, I doubt there are many people on Stuttgart eyeing progress in Hethel with much envy.
Porsche has plenty of enthusiasts, I agree, but it also has a high proportion of buyers who are not, Lotus is the exact reverse.
I wasn't criticizing Porsche's marketing or heritage, it was more a criticism of Lotus who are poor are marketing and seem to only have exposure in F1 and nowhere else. Porsche of course have massive market exposure and are a fixture at LeMans in many different guises it also has many one make series around the world.
Many of my business meetings are on site, its not always possible to avoid running into people. There is no doubt that some people see Porsche owners as being arrogant pushy types. I can get away with being like that for a bit longer if I arrive in a Lotus
Don't get me wrong, I love Porsches, the engine noise is great, the gear change especially in the 993 is very satisfying when you get it bang on, and it was a close run thing for me between a Porsche and the Evora. Knocking the Evora is a wrong as knocking the Porsche, they both have strong and weak points. For me the telepathic steering in the Evora and the sense of occasion looking at it and climbing into it, won me over.
CTE said:
Ah...390/410/ and soon 420hp with a lot more torque is a German developed upgrade by Komotec (TUV approved) and installed by Hangar 111 in Essex.
My motoring nirvana I hope to get this year (when house sells):Evora S with
- 400 bhp upgrade
- Mansory front bumper
- Tubi exhaust
I think that will tick all items on my wish list for 2014 !!
British Beef said:
My motoring nirvana I hope to get this year (when house sells):
Evora S with
- 400 bhp upgrade
- Mansory front bumper
- Tubi exhaust
I think that will tick all items on my wish list for 2014 !!
This chap had a build thread on seloc of a GTN kitted Evora. He bought it standard, had the full kit fitted and a respray in a new colour. The result, IMO, is absolutely stunning. There were some pics floating around on here in one of the Manchester spotted threads. Evora S with
- 400 bhp upgrade
- Mansory front bumper
- Tubi exhaust
I think that will tick all items on my wish list for 2014 !!
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?mem...
How you guys at actually driven a modern porsche? Sometimes it seems like a journo hypnosis, just like the VW Golf. When you actually drive the 911 in real life its quite a muted and modest experience (the modern ones), at least the standard models and turbos. like a comfy fast living room.
GT3 Mk1 was very surprising though, felt like a race car.
I would chose the Evora, a really nice car...
GT3 Mk1 was very surprising though, felt like a race car.
I would chose the Evora, a really nice car...
CedricN said:
How you guys at actually driven a modern porsche? Sometimes it seems like a journo hypnosis, just like the VW Golf. When you actually drive the 911 in real life its quite a muted and modest experience (the modern ones), at least the standard models and turbos. like a comfy fast living room.
GT3 Mk1 was very surprising though, felt like a race car.
I would chose the Evora, a really nice car...
I think that was part of the problem with Porsche, its like a fast version of my Audi A6 albeit with better handling and less practicality. Thats sort of what I mean by sense of occasion. The Evora is tricky to get in and out of and odly thats part of the appeal. It is very comfortable once you are in, the seats are excellentGT3 Mk1 was very surprising though, felt like a race car.
I would chose the Evora, a really nice car...
blueg33 said:
I think that was part of the problem with Porsche, its like a fast version of my Audi A6 albeit with better handling and less practicality. Thats sort of what I mean by sense of occasion. The Evora is tricky to get in and out of and odly thats part of the appeal. It is very comfortable once you are in, the seats are excellent
Spot on, thats the reason Im looking for a Lotus Elise as a replacement/compliment to my hotted up 924 turbo. The Boxsters and such just feels too normal. But if you are using it as a DD, the modern porsche sure is a fine choice..CTE said:
If the Lotus holds its value better...due to limited supply more than anything...then surely that makes it the cheaper ownership proposition.
The cost of owning a car is not the list price but the depreciation and the running costs in between.
It tends to depend on when you buy and when you sell. Mainstream Porsches tend to follow pretty standard depreciation curves, losing a fairly consistent chunk of their value every year until they eventually start to hit classic status and stabilise, then rise. Recent Lotus's cars tend to depreciate heavily for the first year or maybe two then slow dramatically, stabilising at somewhere around half their new price. The Elsie and Exige both did this, and the Evora appears to be doing the same. The cost of owning a car is not the list price but the depreciation and the running costs in between.
So if you buy the car new run it for a year then sell it on, the Cayman will probably work out significantly cheaper; if you buy the car new run it for five years then sell it, the Evora will. If you buy it at two years old then keep it for a while, the Lotus will probably work out much cheaper.
I've never really understood buying new cars at all (although obviously someone has to do it, and I'm very glad they do), but Lotus least of all. Not only do you end up funding the steep initial depreciation, you also usually end up with a fundamentally worse car than if you'd bought second hand because someone else hasn't already sorted out all the niggles for you.
Edited by kambites on Friday 11th April 13:37
Just read the update comparing used Evora and used Cayman/911.
I think Dan may have missed an important point, look at what you get with a £35-40k Evora against the equivalent price 911 or Cayman and even more so if you pitch a £30k n/a Evora againt a £30k porsche.
You generally have to buy a much older leggier Porsche, but then the Evora depreciation has pretty much flattenned out and the Porsche will continue going down.
I researched historic prices hard before I bought along with running costs especially tyres and servicing, tyre life, brake life etc. I do financial models for work, so I wrote asimple one comparing all of the cars I was considering at a £30-35k price point. In terms of total cost the Evora was cheapest surprisingly followed by a 996 Turbo (virtually nil depreciation on the turbo, but hefty maintenance costs). DB9 and Masersati Grantourismo were eyewatering as daily drivers.
I think Dan may have missed an important point, look at what you get with a £35-40k Evora against the equivalent price 911 or Cayman and even more so if you pitch a £30k n/a Evora againt a £30k porsche.
You generally have to buy a much older leggier Porsche, but then the Evora depreciation has pretty much flattenned out and the Porsche will continue going down.
I researched historic prices hard before I bought along with running costs especially tyres and servicing, tyre life, brake life etc. I do financial models for work, so I wrote asimple one comparing all of the cars I was considering at a £30-35k price point. In terms of total cost the Evora was cheapest surprisingly followed by a 996 Turbo (virtually nil depreciation on the turbo, but hefty maintenance costs). DB9 and Masersati Grantourismo were eyewatering as daily drivers.
blueg33 said:
Just read the update comparing used Evora and used Cayman/911.
I think Dan may have missed an important point, look at what you get with a £35-40k Evora against the equivalent price 911 or Cayman and even more so if you pitch a £30k n/a Evora againt a £30k porsche.
You generally have to buy a much older leggier Porsche, but then the Evora depreciation has pretty much flattenned out and the Porsche will continue going down.
I researched historic prices hard before I bought along with running costs especially tyres and servicing, tyre life, brake life etc. I do financial models for work, so I wrote asimple one comparing all of the cars I was considering at a £30-35k price point. In terms of total cost the Evora was cheapest surprisingly followed by a 996 Turbo (virtually nil depreciation on the turbo, but hefty maintenance costs). DB9 and Masersati Grantourismo were eyewatering as daily drivers.
Interesting stuff and thanks for sharing; I realise the picture probably changes with older cars but I wanted to focus on as close to like for like with 'our' Sports Racer for this initial comparison. I was going to do exactly this for a later update because I suspected exactly that would emerge. You may have saved me a job though!I think Dan may have missed an important point, look at what you get with a £35-40k Evora against the equivalent price 911 or Cayman and even more so if you pitch a £30k n/a Evora againt a £30k porsche.
You generally have to buy a much older leggier Porsche, but then the Evora depreciation has pretty much flattenned out and the Porsche will continue going down.
I researched historic prices hard before I bought along with running costs especially tyres and servicing, tyre life, brake life etc. I do financial models for work, so I wrote asimple one comparing all of the cars I was considering at a £30-35k price point. In terms of total cost the Evora was cheapest surprisingly followed by a 996 Turbo (virtually nil depreciation on the turbo, but hefty maintenance costs). DB9 and Masersati Grantourismo were eyewatering as daily drivers.
Thanks!
Dan
blueg33 said:
Just read the update comparing used Evora and used Cayman/911.
I think Dan may have missed an important point, look at what you get with a £35-40k Evora against the equivalent price 911 or Cayman and even more so if you pitch a £30k n/a Evora againt a £30k porsche.
You generally have to buy a much older leggier Porsche, but then the Evora depreciation has pretty much flattenned out and the Porsche will continue going down.
I researched historic prices hard before I bought along with running costs especially tyres and servicing, tyre life, brake life etc. I do financial models for work, so I wrote asimple one comparing all of the cars I was considering at a £30-35k price point. In terms of total cost the Evora was cheapest surprisingly followed by a 996 Turbo (virtually nil depreciation on the turbo, but hefty maintenance costs). DB9 and Masersati Grantourismo were eyewatering as daily drivers.
I agree that's where the real market comparison sits, but the supply of those £35k cars relies on those purchasing the £65k ones from the manufacturer, and for that journalists need to spread the word and make the comparisons. Once the entire s/h Evora market runs out of ex-Lotus management cars there needs to be the next generation of new Evora purchasers.I think Dan may have missed an important point, look at what you get with a £35-40k Evora against the equivalent price 911 or Cayman and even more so if you pitch a £30k n/a Evora againt a £30k porsche.
You generally have to buy a much older leggier Porsche, but then the Evora depreciation has pretty much flattenned out and the Porsche will continue going down.
I researched historic prices hard before I bought along with running costs especially tyres and servicing, tyre life, brake life etc. I do financial models for work, so I wrote asimple one comparing all of the cars I was considering at a £30-35k price point. In terms of total cost the Evora was cheapest surprisingly followed by a 996 Turbo (virtually nil depreciation on the turbo, but hefty maintenance costs). DB9 and Masersati Grantourismo were eyewatering as daily drivers.
Shnozz said:
I agree that's where the real market comparison sits, but the supply of those £35k cars relies on those purchasing the £65k ones from the manufacturer, and for that journalists need to spread the word and make the comparisons. Once the entire s/h Evora market runs out of ex-Lotus management cars there needs to be the next generation of new Evora purchasers.
It's self-0correcting though, isn't it? If the second-hand supply falls compared to demand, values will rise and the running costs of a new car will fall correspondingly.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff