Golf Mk7 - Sweetspot for price, spec, performance?
Discussion
ORD said:
Blown2CV said:
Again nothing to do with the concept of a lease. Driving a new car may well change your expectation to want a new car next time (mainly because it's quite a nice feeling), but to be honest I've had a couple of cheapo (ish) cars in between new ones that have ended up being more long-term than I originally intended. It sounds like what you're saying is that leases are wrong because they enable you to have a new car if you want it, and once you've had a new thing then you're somehow addicted and are promptly f
ked. There is the concept of free will.
There is only something wrong with the concept of a lease if you can't afford it. For many people on PH you can only 'afford' something if you can go out and drop cash on it, sign a cheque. Of course that's absolutely horsest otherwise we'd all be living with our Mums until we were 50+ and could afford to buy a house with cash. However "that's different" apparently.
Calm down! I didn't say leases are 'wrong'. I think the car industry loves pay per month deals because, to be frank, the vast majority of people will gladly spend in small pieces what they would never be prepared to pay as a lump sum. ked. There is the concept of free will. There is only something wrong with the concept of a lease if you can't afford it. For many people on PH you can only 'afford' something if you can go out and drop cash on it, sign a cheque. Of course that's absolutely horses
t otherwise we'd all be living with our Mums until we were 50+ and could afford to buy a house with cash. However "that's different" apparently. Free will? We live in a massively paternalistic society, so that concept is largely redundant. See, for example, the Wonga loan write-offs. A man borrows money that he says (untruthfully) that he can afford to repay it with interest; he cannot; the company is forced to let him keep the capital! It is pretty much universally accepted within government that people have no real ability to look after their own financial position and need protection.
te verging on conspiracy theories. You seem to be saying that people are just bumbling around being manipulated by everything they see and hear, and it's just bks sorry. There are a percentage of people that aren't very bright that will sign something they can't afford, however this is NOT a problem with finance. It may be a problem with certain companies and how things are sold by them, but many of the people who sign up and are 'victims' are just stupid. I'd personally support an IQ test as part of the credit applications process, but can you imagine the outcry? Big brother isn't making you buy a new car, sorry but i don't agree with you at all. I can only assume a) that you are a 'victim' of finance (i.e. you were stupid and signed up to something you couldn't afford) and are now scared of it or b) that you'd never get finance because you think it's wrong across the board, which often leads to complete hypocrisy as you've probably got a mortgage, probably a credit card and so on but somehow that's OK because you "can afford those"
Blown2CV said:
I can only assume a) that you are a 'victim' of finance (i.e. you were stupid and signed up to something you couldn't afford) and are now scared of it or b) that you'd never get finance because you think it's wrong across the board, which often leads to complete hypocrisy as you've probably got a mortgage, probably a credit card and so on but somehow that's OK because you "can afford those"
Some very basic generalisations there:- Personally, I don't usually take finance because it's not right for me; it's the cheapest way into a new car, but for my needs nowhere near good value for money; the annoyance begins when sales/marketing people use low monthly payments to convince people with poor maths skills that it's 'cheaper'.
- A mortgage is usually a very cheap form of borrowing, on an item that is out of reach as a cash purchase for the vast majority of people (those who can afford a cash purchase at a particular price point are still going to mortgage a property at a higher price point), on an appreciating asset that will likely be worth more than the amount paid.
- credit cards can be cheaper with a bit of discipline - 0% purchase cards allow you to keep the money in the bank, and if not paid off in full at the end of the deal, a 0% balance transfer card as long as the interest earned on savings or investments outweighs the balance transfer fee.
Edited by xRIEx on Monday 13th October 09:13
Blown2CV said:
I love it when people say "calm down" as a way of trying to redress the balance during a discussion, when in fact no-one was anything but completely calm. Again, I've said I don't care how you spend your money, however many of the assertions you are making are just reductionist ste verging on conspiracy theories. You seem to be saying that people are just bumbling around being manipulated by everything they see and hear, and it's just bks sorry. There are a percentage of people that aren't very bright that will sign something they can't afford, however this is NOT a problem with finance. It may be a problem with certain companies and how things are sold by them, but many of the people who sign up and are 'victims' are just stupid. I'd personally support an IQ test as part of the credit applications process, but can you imagine the outcry? Big brother isn't making you buy a new car, sorry but i don't agree with you at all.
I can only assume a) that you are a 'victim' of finance (i.e. you were stupid and signed up to something you couldn't afford) and are now scared of it or b) that you'd never get finance because you think it's wrong across the board, which often leads to complete hypocrisy as you've probably got a mortgage, probably a credit card and so on but somehow that's OK because you "can afford those"
None of your assumptions is correct. You're a good example of why people get tired of PH. Grumpy, sensitive, patronising and desperate to make things personal.te verging on conspiracy theories. You seem to be saying that people are just bumbling around being manipulated by everything they see and hear, and it's just bks sorry. There are a percentage of people that aren't very bright that will sign something they can't afford, however this is NOT a problem with finance. It may be a problem with certain companies and how things are sold by them, but many of the people who sign up and are 'victims' are just stupid. I'd personally support an IQ test as part of the credit applications process, but can you imagine the outcry? Big brother isn't making you buy a new car, sorry but i don't agree with you at all. I can only assume a) that you are a 'victim' of finance (i.e. you were stupid and signed up to something you couldn't afford) and are now scared of it or b) that you'd never get finance because you think it's wrong across the board, which often leads to complete hypocrisy as you've probably got a mortgage, probably a credit card and so on but somehow that's OK because you "can afford those"
ORD said:
Blown2CV said:
I love it when people say "calm down" as a way of trying to redress the balance during a discussion, when in fact no-one was anything but completely calm. Again, I've said I don't care how you spend your money, however many of the assertions you are making are just reductionist ste verging on conspiracy theories. You seem to be saying that people are just bumbling around being manipulated by everything they see and hear, and it's just bks sorry. There are a percentage of people that aren't very bright that will sign something they can't afford, however this is NOT a problem with finance. It may be a problem with certain companies and how things are sold by them, but many of the people who sign up and are 'victims' are just stupid. I'd personally support an IQ test as part of the credit applications process, but can you imagine the outcry? Big brother isn't making you buy a new car, sorry but i don't agree with you at all.
I can only assume a) that you are a 'victim' of finance (i.e. you were stupid and signed up to something you couldn't afford) and are now scared of it or b) that you'd never get finance because you think it's wrong across the board, which often leads to complete hypocrisy as you've probably got a mortgage, probably a credit card and so on but somehow that's OK because you "can afford those"
None of your assumptions is correct. You're a good example of why people get tired of PH. Grumpy, sensitive, patronising and desperate to make things personal.te verging on conspiracy theories. You seem to be saying that people are just bumbling around being manipulated by everything they see and hear, and it's just bks sorry. There are a percentage of people that aren't very bright that will sign something they can't afford, however this is NOT a problem with finance. It may be a problem with certain companies and how things are sold by them, but many of the people who sign up and are 'victims' are just stupid. I'd personally support an IQ test as part of the credit applications process, but can you imagine the outcry? Big brother isn't making you buy a new car, sorry but i don't agree with you at all. I can only assume a) that you are a 'victim' of finance (i.e. you were stupid and signed up to something you couldn't afford) and are now scared of it or b) that you'd never get finance because you think it's wrong across the board, which often leads to complete hypocrisy as you've probably got a mortgage, probably a credit card and so on but somehow that's OK because you "can afford those"
xRIEx said:
Blown2CV said:
I can only assume a) that you are a 'victim' of finance (i.e. you were stupid and signed up to something you couldn't afford) and are now scared of it or b) that you'd never get finance because you think it's wrong across the board, which often leads to complete hypocrisy as you've probably got a mortgage, probably a credit card and so on but somehow that's OK because you "can afford those"
Some very basic generalisations there:- Personally, I don't usually take finance because it's not right for me; it's the cheapest way into a new car, but for my needs nowhere near good value for money; the annoyance begins when sales/marketing people use low monthly payments to convince people with poor maths skills that it's 'cheaper'.
- A mortgage is usually a very cheap form of borrowing, on an item that is out of reach as a cash purchase for the vast majority of people (those who can afford a cash purchase at a particular price point are still going to mortgage a property at a higher price point), on an appreciating asset that will likely be worth more than the amount paid.
- credit cards can be cheaper with a bit of discipline - 0% purchase cards allow you to keep the money in the bank, and if not paid off in full at the end of the deal, a 0% balance transfer card as long as the interest earned on savings or investments outweighs the balance transfer fee.
Edited by xRIEx on Monday 13th October 09:13
Blown2CV said:
xRIEx said:
Blown2CV said:
I can only assume a) that you are a 'victim' of finance (i.e. you were stupid and signed up to something you couldn't afford) and are now scared of it or b) that you'd never get finance because you think it's wrong across the board, which often leads to complete hypocrisy as you've probably got a mortgage, probably a credit card and so on but somehow that's OK because you "can afford those"
Some very basic generalisations there:- Personally, I don't usually take finance because it's not right for me; it's the cheapest way into a new car, but for my needs nowhere near good value for money; the annoyance begins when sales/marketing people use low monthly payments to convince people with poor maths skills that it's 'cheaper'.
- A mortgage is usually a very cheap form of borrowing, on an item that is out of reach as a cash purchase for the vast majority of people (those who can afford a cash purchase at a particular price point are still going to mortgage a property at a higher price point), on an appreciating asset that will likely be worth more than the amount paid.
- credit cards can be cheaper with a bit of discipline - 0% purchase cards allow you to keep the money in the bank, and if not paid off in full at the end of the deal, a 0% balance transfer card as long as the interest earned on savings or investments outweighs the balance transfer fee.
Edited by xRIEx on Monday 13th October 09:13
Blown2CV said:
Who has tried to convince anyone of anything, there is no salesman here
I was discussing the residual perception on finance and yes it was a generalisation but I didn't think it was particularly abstract; as per my point above about unsuitable products, a good salesperson sells the sizzle, not the sausage - it's about convincing a prospective customer to buy what the salesperson wants to sell as much as (or maybe more than) what the customer wants to buy. If the customer goes into a showroom knowing exactly what they want and they get exactly that, the "sales"person is nothing more than an admin person; good salespeople get the big salaries by upselling.Blown2CV said:
You've just described a mortgage as exactly the same as a car lease, and actually given a perfect reason to not own (rather than rent) a car - it depreciates
A mortgage is nothing like a car lease, I don't know how you arrived at that conclusion. A property is an appreciating asset, a lease is a cost - they're about as dissimilar as you can get within that subject. You were the one comparing leases with mortgages.Depreciation is not a reason not to own. I think you're another one getting confused about the "if it appreciates, buy it; if it depreciates, lease it" mantra - that was made about businesses where depreciation on the balance sheet is disadvantageous, and where capital investment and cashflow is extremely important. Remember in a commercial venture that investment may realise a return of 15-40% - quite different to an individual's bank account interest!
Like for like, owning or 'renting' a car has little difference to a private individual over the course of the term.
Blown2CV said:
Your argument about credit cards neatly side-steps the issue that credit cards are the easiest way into huge debt for the stupid and unprepared
I don't disagree with that, just presenting another side of the coin.Blown2CV said:
why are car leases the work of the devil across the board,
They're not.Blown2CV said:
and yet credit cards are all fine providing you apply some sense?
Everything (within reason) is fine if you apply some sense.Rick101 said:
St John Smythe said:
Blown2CV said:
well personally i am not biased towards leasing, but i am biased towards the cheapest way to own a particular car, whatever that is.
But when leasing you don't 'own' anything?You could sit for hours conversing over the meaning and validity of 'ownership'. Do you own you home if it's leasehold for 999 years? Do you own a meal? Do you 'own' a dog or are you just the keeper/billpayer?
Ownership really doesn't matter. Whether you can sell it and get back some of the invested capital, or you didn't put capital into in in the first place, it doesn't really matter. It's a certain product for a certain price. Get over it!
superlightr said:
so whats the op getting or not getting or still thinking? Still recommend the GTD.......
Ah another tired of the squabbling, amazing isn't it? Regardless of the thread some people have a talent of making it about themselves. Nice try getting this thread back on track, but alas most likely in vain.How about I try then, or is that too egotistical? How are owners getting on with their tyres? I reckon i could get about 8000 miles out of the fronts and I haven't been driving like a complete loon, most of the time anyway.
Just as well I've got maintenance and tyres in the deal. Oops i mentioned leases again. Sigh.
Just as well I've got maintenance and tyres in the deal. Oops i mentioned leases again. Sigh.
Blown2CV said:
How about I try then, or is that too egotistical? How are owners getting on with their tyres? I reckon i could get about 8000 miles out of the fronts and I haven't been driving like a complete loon, most of the time anyway.
Just as well I've got maintenance and tyres in the deal. Oops i mentioned leases again. Sigh.
Just as well I've got maintenance and tyres in the deal. Oops i mentioned leases again. Sigh.
ORD said:
How does the tyres thing work? Can you get new premium brand tyres every time they wear to 3mm? If so, that's a pretty awesome perk!
not sure really, i feel they will have a clause somewhere... I am concerned that either i'll be on ditchfinders or they'll replace them once and that's it! Blown2CV said:
ORD said:
How does the tyres thing work? Can you get new premium brand tyres every time they wear to 3mm? If so, that's a pretty awesome perk!
not sure really, i feel they will have a clause somewhere... I am concerned that either i'll be on ditchfinders or they'll replace them once and that's it! Blown2CV said:
i thought being 4WD that the wear might have been more even across the 4 tyres, but i guess the rear drive doesn't often kick-in very much under normal driving. I am pretty sure the fronts are under 3mm now so I will check!
WARNING! Do not mention the fact that R is FWD most of the time. The resulting argument will make the lease tit-for-tat look pleasant and sane 
ORD said:
Blown2CV said:
i thought being 4WD that the wear might have been more even across the 4 tyres, but i guess the rear drive doesn't often kick-in very much under normal driving. I am pretty sure the fronts are under 3mm now so I will check!
WARNING! Do not mention the fact that R is FWD most of the time. The resulting argument will make the lease tit-for-tat look pleasant and sane 
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