BMW have gone too far
Discussion
Audemars said:
Over 80% of all new car purchased in 2015 in the uk was via finance. Over 75% in 2014. I predict over 85% in 2016. Driving new cars is the new going council.
I bet most of these folks cannot afford to buy a £5k used car.
Fascinating. I bet most of these folks cannot afford to buy a £5k used car.
Why does it matter to you?
EDIT - Just realised you're our '6 figs' friend. Forget I asked.
Edited by Sten. on Thursday 7th July 23:21
Financing an old car is dodgy territory and I'm not the sort of person to finance everything from my furniture to my kitchen white goods, unless it's some 0% deal.
Obtaining a car on a PCP is little different in practice to dropping the whole value of one at once and losing money in it depreciating. The monthly fees are set and constant rather than you losing a whole load of value at once at the beginning of the deal, especially if you ensure the deposit is low.
People like the piece of mind of set fees and a new car that's reliable, or at least under warranty if it isn't with the option of cancelling the agreement and swapping to another car or walking away.
A BMW 1 Series or Audi A3 isn't really worth the £30k + price tag and neither the manufacturer or dealer expects you to actually pay that for one. The whole aim is to PCP the cars.
If we want the manufacturers to develop the high power, red meat cars we like they need to make a profit from the bread and butter. If that's the front wheel drive people carriers and diesel repmobiles with bodykits and badges, so be it.
If people are buying new cars that look good, that's demonstrating an interest in cars that we should be happy about, even if the interest in cars has moved on from tweaking old bangers and racing them on public roads or magazines with big breasted girls lying on some barried up Nova. It was this kind of antisocial behaviour in cars up to a few years ago that largely developed an anti car culture.
Obtaining a car on a PCP is little different in practice to dropping the whole value of one at once and losing money in it depreciating. The monthly fees are set and constant rather than you losing a whole load of value at once at the beginning of the deal, especially if you ensure the deposit is low.
People like the piece of mind of set fees and a new car that's reliable, or at least under warranty if it isn't with the option of cancelling the agreement and swapping to another car or walking away.
A BMW 1 Series or Audi A3 isn't really worth the £30k + price tag and neither the manufacturer or dealer expects you to actually pay that for one. The whole aim is to PCP the cars.
If we want the manufacturers to develop the high power, red meat cars we like they need to make a profit from the bread and butter. If that's the front wheel drive people carriers and diesel repmobiles with bodykits and badges, so be it.
If people are buying new cars that look good, that's demonstrating an interest in cars that we should be happy about, even if the interest in cars has moved on from tweaking old bangers and racing them on public roads or magazines with big breasted girls lying on some barried up Nova. It was this kind of antisocial behaviour in cars up to a few years ago that largely developed an anti car culture.
Audemars said:
Over 80% of all new car purchased in 2015 in the uk was via finance. Over 75% in 2014. I predict over 85% in 2016. Driving new cars is the new going council.
I bet most of these folks cannot afford to buy a £5k used car.
So if you can't afford to buy a 5k car used,( I'm guessing this is true due to your fruit based remuneration package) but you can rent a new one, what would you do - if you had to have a reliable car to get to I bet most of these folks cannot afford to buy a £5k used car.
Ps. Please cite your references for the above new car finance purchase
Audemars said:
I agree. People driving new cars thinking they are better than those in bangers are t
ts. Thats my point.
My father buys a new car every three years, loads of older people do this because, they can, and having a new car with a factory warranty makes them happy. Years ago when I was growing up he used to spend whole weekends rebuilding pieces of crap as that was all we could afford. Keep the generalisations flowing guys, it says more about you than anyone else ts. Thats my point. 
If you are buying a new car it isn't uncommon that the best discounts are only available when you take out finance deals.
It isn't so simple as not being able to afford a sticker price. There is also the opportunity cost of sinking all that money into a depreciating asset.
If I can buy a car for £30k, or put £5k down and finance the rest at 0% over 3 years... then at 3 years I am genuinely better off if I have used the finance and invested my cash in something with any kind of positive return - even a current account. That's before taking into account additional discounts, often running into £100's or £1000's, which are only available when bought on finance.
Leasing seems to be the way to go with new cars, many of the best deals seem to only be available via leasing. Many manufacturers use them to fill factory slots for production that would otherwise be unsold. The recent Golf R Estate deals are a good example - try going into a VW dealer and getting a PCP deal for £1500 down and £215 a month... not going to happen. You also would not be offered a £10k+ cash discount on straight purchase. Leasing is a nice backdoor they can use to manage excess production capacity without diluting their normal dealership network pricing.
PCP can be better if you genuinely do plan on owning the car for a long time, but you can often also negotiate a purchase after leasing but often only via a friend/family member. With PCP you will usually pay more over the initial term than leasing but *could* have some equity left in the car at the end of term - bit of a gamble though as some GFV can be a bit on the low side. I have a friend who bought a Touareg on PCP last year, I suspect he'll have no equity in it come the end on finance term and will have paid most of double what the cheapest lease prices have been.
Far from being silly, or a bit council, using finance to buy a new car is often the most sensible way of doing it.
The old saying - if it flies, floats or f*cks then rent it.... is starting to also apply to cars. Why sink your money into a depreciating asset when you can lease it instead and put your money into a productive investment?
It isn't so simple as not being able to afford a sticker price. There is also the opportunity cost of sinking all that money into a depreciating asset.
If I can buy a car for £30k, or put £5k down and finance the rest at 0% over 3 years... then at 3 years I am genuinely better off if I have used the finance and invested my cash in something with any kind of positive return - even a current account. That's before taking into account additional discounts, often running into £100's or £1000's, which are only available when bought on finance.
Leasing seems to be the way to go with new cars, many of the best deals seem to only be available via leasing. Many manufacturers use them to fill factory slots for production that would otherwise be unsold. The recent Golf R Estate deals are a good example - try going into a VW dealer and getting a PCP deal for £1500 down and £215 a month... not going to happen. You also would not be offered a £10k+ cash discount on straight purchase. Leasing is a nice backdoor they can use to manage excess production capacity without diluting their normal dealership network pricing.
PCP can be better if you genuinely do plan on owning the car for a long time, but you can often also negotiate a purchase after leasing but often only via a friend/family member. With PCP you will usually pay more over the initial term than leasing but *could* have some equity left in the car at the end of term - bit of a gamble though as some GFV can be a bit on the low side. I have a friend who bought a Touareg on PCP last year, I suspect he'll have no equity in it come the end on finance term and will have paid most of double what the cheapest lease prices have been.
Far from being silly, or a bit council, using finance to buy a new car is often the most sensible way of doing it.
The old saying - if it flies, floats or f*cks then rent it.... is starting to also apply to cars. Why sink your money into a depreciating asset when you can lease it instead and put your money into a productive investment?
with so many rented cars on the market why isn't the used market being flooded say 6 years down the line with cheap high spec "well looked after" cars?
I just don't get and never have got the appeal of finance, I understand it but I just don't mentally have the capability to do it.
Some say it enables them to come out better than buying new as the depreciation is more than the payments, but that's just fooling themselves. For others they say its a way to get into a car they would never otherwise be able to own, I understand this aspect, but surely slum it for 3 years or more and save the monthly payments and maybe buy the car for yourself?
I just don't get and never have got the appeal of finance, I understand it but I just don't mentally have the capability to do it.
Some say it enables them to come out better than buying new as the depreciation is more than the payments, but that's just fooling themselves. For others they say its a way to get into a car they would never otherwise be able to own, I understand this aspect, but surely slum it for 3 years or more and save the monthly payments and maybe buy the car for yourself?
This is turning in to pros and cons PCP thread
It is irrelevant how you bought a car. The various ways of packaging a deal are simply tools to enable customers. Seems to be a bit of jealousy and snobbery about - I think the number of true snobs is far lower than we think. Most of these purport to be snobs that can put down £40k on a car 'if they want to' but this is the internet. I wouldn't believe them. They're self entitled sts that have a chip on their shoulder and are pissed the neighbour drives a 6 series which should be theirs!
When I see a nice car I never think, "I wonder how he financed that." Maybe I'm in the minority. Who cares? Drive it, enjoy it.
It is irrelevant how you bought a car. The various ways of packaging a deal are simply tools to enable customers. Seems to be a bit of jealousy and snobbery about - I think the number of true snobs is far lower than we think. Most of these purport to be snobs that can put down £40k on a car 'if they want to' but this is the internet. I wouldn't believe them. They're self entitled s
ts that have a chip on their shoulder and are pissed the neighbour drives a 6 series which should be theirs!When I see a nice car I never think, "I wonder how he financed that." Maybe I'm in the minority. Who cares? Drive it, enjoy it.
silent ninja said:
When I see a nice car I never think, "I wonder how he financed that." Maybe I'm in the minority. Who cares? Drive it, enjoy it.
Yes but you're clearly not in a competition with everyone else to prove that you are considerably richer than them.You see when some people see a nice car their first thought is "that's nicer than mine, how can I explain that the owner, despite appearances isn't as well off as me?"
Audemars said:
Devil2575 said:
Rough translation:
"No really, despite appearances I am better off than those people over there"
Three points
Who cares if people buy cars with finance
Who cares what "People with money" think
You have no idea how cars under 4 years old are being paid for.
Anyone who looks at someine and judges them based on how much money they think they have is a tt.
I agree. People driving new cars thinking they are better than those in bangers are t"No really, despite appearances I am better off than those people over there"
Three points
Who cares if people buy cars with finance
Who cares what "People with money" think
You have no idea how cars under 4 years old are being paid for.
Anyone who looks at someine and judges them based on how much money they think they have is a t
t.ts. Thats my point. I prefer to judge someone by their actions not their wealth.
Blakewater said:
M Sport is a trim level and nothing more.
As has been mentioned over and over again in this thread, M Sport gives a BMW different suspension; it's not just a "look at me" option. Well, it might be for so called 'peacock' car buyers who buy things for the looks alone, but so is buying a proper sports car for them too (and watches, surfboards, bikes and basically everything!) and you could argue that all day and get nowhere. The fact is there are very genuine reasons for choosing M Sport over standard spec if you're a petrolhead interested in driving. The difference on the latest models is particularly pronounced, as the standard 'SE' BMW setup has slipped somewhat from what it used to be for the E9* era cars. As I described earlier, my wife and I test drove two new 1 series cars a couple of years ago - one with M Sport and one without - and the handling was very different between the two. I haven't tried the latest 3 series with and without yet, but from what I hear the difference is echoed there too. This isn't a subtle geeky thing, it's something most petrolheads would notice immediately on twisty roads if they're keen drivers.RobM77 said:
s has been mentioned over and over again in this thread, M Sport gives a BMW different suspension; it's not just a "look at me" option. Well, it might be for so called 'peacock' car buyers who buy things for the looks alone, but so is buying a proper sports car for them too (and watches, surfboards, bikes and basically everything!) and you could argue that all day and get nowhere. The fact is there are very genuine reasons for choosing M Sport over standard spec if you're a petrolhead interested in driving. The difference on the latest models is particularly pronounced, as the standard 'SE' BMW setup has slipped somewhat from what it used to be for the E9* era cars. As I described earlier, my wife and I test drove two new 1 series cars a couple of years ago - one with M Sport and one without - and the handling was very different between the two. I haven't tried the latest 3 series with and without yet, but from what I hear the difference is echoed there too. This isn't a subtle geeky thing, it's something most petrolheads would notice immediately on twisty roads if they're keen drivers.
I generally agree, but worth baring in mind that a lot of people delete the sport suspension option when ordering their m-sports nowadays RobM77 said:
s has been mentioned over and over again in this thread, M Sport gives a BMW different suspension; it's not just a "look at me" option. Well, it might be for so called 'peacock' car buyers who buy things for the looks alone, but so is buying a proper sports car for them too (and watches, surfboards, bikes and basically everything!) and you could argue that all day and get nowhere. The fact is there are very genuine reasons for choosing M Sport over standard spec if you're a petrolhead interested in driving. The difference on the latest models is particularly pronounced, as the standard 'SE' BMW setup has slipped somewhat from what it used to be for the E9* era cars. As I described earlier, my wife and I test drove two new 1 series cars a couple of years ago - one with M Sport and one without - and the handling was very different between the two. I haven't tried the latest 3 series with and without yet, but from what I hear the difference is echoed there too. This isn't a subtle geeky thing, it's something most petrolheads would notice immediately on twisty roads if they're keen drivers.
That's interesting because when I bought an E46 330i I drove both the Sport and the SE and while the Sport was lower and stiffer the SE was perfectly composed on a twisty B road. In fact on uneven surfaces it was better IMHO. The same applied to the E39. underphil said:
RobM77 said:
s has been mentioned over and over again in this thread, M Sport gives a BMW different suspension; it's not just a "look at me" option. Well, it might be for so called 'peacock' car buyers who buy things for the looks alone, but so is buying a proper sports car for them too (and watches, surfboards, bikes and basically everything!) and you could argue that all day and get nowhere. The fact is there are very genuine reasons for choosing M Sport over standard spec if you're a petrolhead interested in driving. The difference on the latest models is particularly pronounced, as the standard 'SE' BMW setup has slipped somewhat from what it used to be for the E9* era cars. As I described earlier, my wife and I test drove two new 1 series cars a couple of years ago - one with M Sport and one without - and the handling was very different between the two. I haven't tried the latest 3 series with and without yet, but from what I hear the difference is echoed there too. This isn't a subtle geeky thing, it's something most petrolheads would notice immediately on twisty roads if they're keen drivers.
I generally agree, but worth baring in mind that a lot of people delete the sport suspension option when ordering their m-sports nowadays Devil2575 said:
That's interesting because when I bought an E46 330i I drove both the Sport and the SE and while the Sport was lower and stiffer the SE was perfectly composed on a twisty B road. In fact on uneven surfaces it was better IMHO. The same applied to the E39.
I ran an E46 330d SE for 3 years, and frequently drove a friend's Sport, and there was quite a large difference between the two, the SE was composed but suffered quite badly with body roll - the Sport was much sharper, and rolled far less. The Sport did get unsettled by bumps, and the ride is noticeable harder - the only real common characteristic they has was that they both tramlined like a bh 
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff