Prostester advocating criminal damage to 4x4s
Discussion
mat205125 said:
apache said:
CommanderJameson said:
I look forward to your response.
I wouldn't hold your breath Cmdr, Mr Rose is ill equiped and can only respond with vitriol and hysteria, facts are an irrelevance.
Can't see Mr Rose coming back with any sensible, and thoroughly researched replies to any of the points raised above.
He seems incapable of presenting a logical arguement without resorting to name calling, threats, and childish "Liar, liar, pants on fire" type replies.
To be fair to Mr Rose, some of the posts in this thread from the PH natives are hardly what you'd consider the pinnacle of reasoned debate. People on both sides of the debate need to act like adults.
Agreed, but what you see here is a varied response from all manner of motorists so it's a fair cross section of a broad church.
Mr Rose, on the otherhand, has taken it upon himself to wage a vendetta based on nothing more than personal opinion. I'd say the onus is on him to respond accordingly, so far he seems to be a one trick pony.
Mr Rose, on the otherhand, has taken it upon himself to wage a vendetta based on nothing more than personal opinion. I'd say the onus is on him to respond accordingly, so far he seems to be a one trick pony.
apache said:
Agreed, but what you see here is a varied response from all manner of motorists so it's a fair cross section of a broad church.
Mr Rose, on the otherhand, has taken it upon himself to wage a vendetta based on nothing more than personal opinion. I'd say the onus is on him to respond accordingly, so far he seems to be a one trick pony.
Mr Rose, on the otherhand, has taken it upon himself to wage a vendetta based on nothing more than personal opinion. I'd say the onus is on him to respond accordingly, so far he seems to be a one trick pony.
I quite agree - but I also believe in not giving the other side a
ing inch. If we're whiter than white in this regard, Mr Rose cannot wheel out the ad hominem excuse with which he can (sort of) gracefully exit the debate.
CommanderJameson said:
apache said:
Agreed, but what you see here is a varied response from all manner of motorists so it's a fair cross section of a broad church.
Mr Rose, on the otherhand, has taken it upon himself to wage a vendetta based on nothing more than personal opinion. I'd say the onus is on him to respond accordingly, so far he seems to be a one trick pony.
Mr Rose, on the otherhand, has taken it upon himself to wage a vendetta based on nothing more than personal opinion. I'd say the onus is on him to respond accordingly, so far he seems to be a one trick pony.
I quite agree - but I also believe in not giving the other side a
ing inch. If we're whiter than white in this regard, Mr Rose cannot wheel out the ad hominem excuse with which he can (sort of) gracefully exit the debate.
For sure, it would be wonderful if all 'our' responses could be as eloquent as Derestrictor on a roll and hopefully some will consider their replies a little more carefully but such is life.
I personally welcome the variety of response and see it as an indicator of the diversity of people this guy has against him.
IMO there's equal value in a "get a big black dog up ya" retort as there is a factually accurate reply
Calorus said:
Devil's advocate? Perhaps a little...
But unless you have a Landie (Series, Disco or Defender), a G-Wagen or a Real Rangie you have more money than taste, anyway.
But unless you have a Landie (Series, Disco or Defender), a G-Wagen or a Real Rangie you have more money than taste, anyway.
It's important to point out that that just because someone may have more money than taste does not necessarily indicate that they have poor taste.......
Edited by dazren on Wednesday 3rd January 11:00
dazren said:
Calorus said:
Devil's advocate? Perhaps a little...
But unless you have a Landie (Series, Disco or Defender), a G-Wagen or a Real Rangie you have more money than taste, anyway.
But unless you have a Landie (Series, Disco or Defender), a G-Wagen or a Real Rangie you have more money than taste, anyway.
It's important to point out that that just because someone may have more money than taste does not necessarily indicate that have poor taste.......
especially since he puts the G-Wagon in with the Land Rover, simply the worst 4x4 ever...
Fidgits said:
dazren said:
Calorus said:
Devil's advocate? Perhaps a little...
But unless you have a Landie (Series, Disco or Defender), a G-Wagen or a Real Rangie you have more money than taste, anyway.
But unless you have a Landie (Series, Disco or Defender), a G-Wagen or a Real Rangie you have more money than taste, anyway.
It's important to point out that that just because someone may have more money than taste does not necessarily indicate that have poor taste.......
especially since he puts the G-Wagon in with the Land Rover, simply the worst 4x4 ever...
Short wheelbase G-Wagen's brilliant! Personally, I think it's one of the best climbers ever build - oh and I missed out the Lada Niva which is brillant.
David Rose said:
The 'arguments' expressed on this forum expose all the desperate excuses to 'justify' 4x4 ownership for what they really are: Climate Change denial and anti-social selfishness. 4x4 drivers are criminals. They kill pedestrians/cyclists in greater numbers than the drivers of smaller vehicles and the vast energy use in the construction and fueling of 4x4s is producing excess planet warming carbon that has no social or moral justification. The majority of the posts by 4x4 drivers are so aggressive and repulsive that at least our anti4x4 campaign can thank them for doing our work for us: ie: making 4x4 ownership uncool and socially unacceptable. Thanks guys! Please be aware that if you carry on making threats to ‘remove my eyes with a spoon’, then I will have to go to the Police. Your desire to buy and drive a stupid vehicle does not justify murder. The point is that we all have to do as much as we humanly can RIGHT NOW to reduce our carbon output in this Climate Emergency and 4x4 owners are refusing to take even the first step towards their own personal carbon reduction. In effect they are saying: '**CK YOU' to looming climate chaos and the rest of us cannot allow 4x4 drivers to carry on doing this. Your threats of violence, harassment and intimidation will only strengthen the resolve of this campaign and ensure it’s eventual success . 4x4s are going to be driven out of Bristol. I give you my word on that.
I presume this is a wind-up. The smiley shows that.
angrys3owner said:
All this is making me want to get a big 4x4 with a V8 just to show I really don't like these folk.
My thoughts exactly. In fact, I'd just love to buy a Bowler (sp?) and drive straight through his tent and chew the little fecker up. Oh, and I though heating external spaces (like his pub tent) a la patio heaters was bad for the environment too? So he is a hypocrite as well as a toss-piece.... what an endearing combination!
'4x4s to be priced off the road'
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/12/nmotors12.xml
"Gas-guzzling sports cars, 4x4s and people carriers could be priced off the road within five years after a crackdown on carbon emissions to be announced by the European Commission this month.
The average new car in 2012 will have to emit no more than 120 grams of carbon per kilometre under proposals to be announced by Stavros Dimas, the European Environment Commissioner. The rule change could add more than £3,300 to the cost of a vehicle.
He said yesterday that they were needed because of the failure of European car makers to keep to a voluntary agreement signed in 1998 to reduce emissions by 25 per cent by 2008. They have managed 13 per cent and the agreement ends next year".
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/12/nmotors12.xml
"Gas-guzzling sports cars, 4x4s and people carriers could be priced off the road within five years after a crackdown on carbon emissions to be announced by the European Commission this month.
The average new car in 2012 will have to emit no more than 120 grams of carbon per kilometre under proposals to be announced by Stavros Dimas, the European Environment Commissioner. The rule change could add more than £3,300 to the cost of a vehicle.
He said yesterday that they were needed because of the failure of European car makers to keep to a voluntary agreement signed in 1998 to reduce emissions by 25 per cent by 2008. They have managed 13 per cent and the agreement ends next year".
David Rose said:
'4x4s to be priced off the road'
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/12/nmotors12.xml
"Gas-guzzling sports cars, 4x4s and people carriers could be priced off the road within five years after a crackdown on carbon emissions to be announced by the European Commission this month.
The average new car in 2012 will have to emit no more than 120 grams of carbon per kilometre under proposals to be announced by Stavros Dimas, the European Environment Commissioner. The rule change could add more than £3,300 to the cost of a vehicle.
He said yesterday that they were needed because of the failure of European car makers to keep to a voluntary agreement signed in 1998 to reduce emissions by 25 per cent by 2008. They have managed 13 per cent and the agreement ends next year".
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/12/nmotors12.xml
"Gas-guzzling sports cars, 4x4s and people carriers could be priced off the road within five years after a crackdown on carbon emissions to be announced by the European Commission this month.
The average new car in 2012 will have to emit no more than 120 grams of carbon per kilometre under proposals to be announced by Stavros Dimas, the European Environment Commissioner. The rule change could add more than £3,300 to the cost of a vehicle.
He said yesterday that they were needed because of the failure of European car makers to keep to a voluntary agreement signed in 1998 to reduce emissions by 25 per cent by 2008. They have managed 13 per cent and the agreement ends next year".
Wow, something factual at last, well done you
<patpat> By the way, you do realise that means up UNTIL 1012, we can have as many 4x4's and sports cars as we want at standard price rates?
So guys, NOWS THE TIME TO BUY THEM!
If you believe that the majority of people buy offroad vehicles as a conspicuous display of wealth, you may want to see how well "punitive" taxation has worked in the past, by taking a look in an architectural direction...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_t
Wikipedia said:
The richest families in the kingdoms used this tax to set themselves apart from the merely rich. They would commission a country home or a manor house whose architecture would make the maximum possible use of windows. In extreme cases they would have windows built over structural walls. It was an exercise in ostentation, spurred by the window tax.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_t
David Rose said:
'4x4s to be priced off the road'
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/12/nmotors12.xml
"Gas-guzzling sports cars, 4x4s and people carriers could be priced off the road within five years after a crackdown on carbon emissions to be announced by the European Commission this month.
The average new car in 2012 will have to emit no more than 120 grams of carbon per kilometre under proposals to be announced by Stavros Dimas, the European Environment Commissioner. The rule change could add more than £3,300 to the cost of a vehicle.
He said yesterday that they were needed because of the failure of European car makers to keep to a voluntary agreement signed in 1998 to reduce emissions by 25 per cent by 2008. They have managed 13 per cent and the agreement ends next year".
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/12/nmotors12.xml
"Gas-guzzling sports cars, 4x4s and people carriers could be priced off the road within five years after a crackdown on carbon emissions to be announced by the European Commission this month.
The average new car in 2012 will have to emit no more than 120 grams of carbon per kilometre under proposals to be announced by Stavros Dimas, the European Environment Commissioner. The rule change could add more than £3,300 to the cost of a vehicle.
He said yesterday that they were needed because of the failure of European car makers to keep to a voluntary agreement signed in 1998 to reduce emissions by 25 per cent by 2008. They have managed 13 per cent and the agreement ends next year".
You neatly omitted the bit where there are existing loopholes, and considerable opposition to this pointless proposal from within the EC itself.
Selective reportage doesn't help your already wobbly case.
And please respond to my post on the previous page.
I bet those same EU members wanting this tax would soon baulk at the thought of manufacturers telling them to get ed, and moving to an eastern European country that didn't care about such things.
Mind you, you do realise that these proposals are wanted by German car manufacturers as its a good way to get people buying new cars? Does that fit with your socialist agenda?
Personally I don't give a stuff. If they want to tax me off the roads, fine, London is shit anyway.
ed, and moving to an eastern European country that didn't care about such things. Mind you, you do realise that these proposals are wanted by German car manufacturers as its a good way to get people buying new cars? Does that fit with your socialist agenda?
Personally I don't give a stuff. If they want to tax me off the roads, fine, London is shit anyway.
Edited by Parrot of Doom on Friday 12th January 12:09
As has been said earlier I would re-iterate most of the views above. I am now worried that ostentatious houses will be targetted next, well they produce co2 as well. So i guess thats my land rover covered in more mud, my caterham damaged in some way and my house attacked.
How about those outside the cities insisting that the urbanites must visit the countryside in something suitable, Land Rover or Land Cruiser etc. Also he is upset because 4x4 are not used to the potential, OK how the hell does he know what I use mine for??? also does thsat mean that unless I unleash the full performance of my Caterham whenever possible he will have a go at that?
I suspect we are all preaching to the converted, so whilst doing this I would urge you to write to your MP etc as well as make a fuss where these wierdos will have to take notice. My MP will no doubt soone be fed up with me soon.
BUy a Land Rover/Jeep/Land Cruiser and flick a V sign to these wierd beards
How about those outside the cities insisting that the urbanites must visit the countryside in something suitable, Land Rover or Land Cruiser etc. Also he is upset because 4x4 are not used to the potential, OK how the hell does he know what I use mine for??? also does thsat mean that unless I unleash the full performance of my Caterham whenever possible he will have a go at that?
I suspect we are all preaching to the converted, so whilst doing this I would urge you to write to your MP etc as well as make a fuss where these wierdos will have to take notice. My MP will no doubt soone be fed up with me soon.
BUy a Land Rover/Jeep/Land Cruiser and flick a V sign to these wierd beards
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