RE: Driven: Lotus Evora S
Discussion
kambites said:
British Beef said:
Dr Evil said:
Fact is Lotus doesn't have enough recent heritage in that price/performance range to appeal to the market.
I think this is one of the most bullsh!t statements on this thread, and there have been quite a few!Obviously this doesn't account for all buyers in the market, but it's a frightening proportion (on here, it's easy to forget how big a proportion, because that end of the market isn't likely to be interested in Pistonheads) and that is something that Lotus have to deal with. None of this has any bearing on whether the Evora is a better car than a 911, but I suspect it will be what determines whether it sells.
Of course once you get into the Esprit type market, the buyers head even more that way. What proportion of V8 Ferrari buyers have a significant interest in driving? How many of the things never even leave London?
Edited by kambites on Thursday 11th November 16:52
Who conducted your market research?
Dagnut said:
Who conducted your market research?
Me, obviously. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I had any source beyond my own observations. But (to my mind at least) it is fairly clear that expensive sports (and not-so-expensive for that matter, as someone pointed out above, the Elise is certainly not immune from the phenomenum) cars are more often bought new as status symbols than driving machines.
Out of interest do you disagree? Do you believe that more than 50% of ~70k sports cars are bought new primarily for their tangible benefits?
kambites said:
Dagnut said:
Who conducted your market research?
Me, obviously. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I had any source beyond my own observations. But (to my mind at least) it is fairly clear that expensive sports (and not-so-expensive for that matter, as someone pointed out above, the Elise is certainly not immune from the phenomenum) cars are more often bought new as status symbols than driving machines.
Out of interest do you disagree? Do you believe that more than 50% of ~70k sports cars are bought new primarily for their tangible benefits?
British Beef said:
Dr Evil said:
Fact is Lotus doesn't have enough recent heritage in that price/performance range to appeal to the market.
I think this is one of the most bullsh!t statements on this thread, and there have been quite a few!Percieved reliability, resuidual value uncertainty and relative lack of a dealers, I would suggest are closer to the mark, limiting "appeal to the market", all of which the established players (in this price range) have covered.
Has Lotus has demonstrated that they can deliver Porsche quality consistently in the 60K price range? It will take 5-10 years to do so. In the meantime, Evora buyers are going to be much more individualistic than Porsche buyers. And Lotus will have to continue to build cars even better than the competition to win over new fans and build their brand in that segment.
Dagnut said:
You could be right, I probably wouldn't be so scathing of the buyers but seems a bit harsh. If you can only have one car- which is a situation a lot of Londoners especially, find themselves in its hard to look past a German sports coupé > when you look at performance, reliability, comfort, something to put some shopping in and something to keep the missus happy- something she'll happily drive.
I agree and I wasn't really trying to belittle the people who bought them, or criticising their choice. I was just saying that they probably aren't all that bothered by the performance and handling that the cars offer, since they will rarely, if ever, use them. Yes, some people will take their car out of the city for hoons at the weekend, but most that I know certainly don't. kambites said:
I wasn't really trying to belittle the people who bought them, or criticising their choice. I was just saying that they probably aren't all that bothered by the performance and handling that the cars offer, since they will rarely, if ever, use them. Yes, some people will take their car out of the city for hoons at the weekend, but most that I know certainly don't.
Fact is - the car business is rapidly polarising between "white goods" and "bling".The Pits said:
You're still doing it, even now, still can't believe how it's possible not to like 911s.
I'm really happy for anyone that likes both. And I'm envious of people who don't give a stuff where their car is built, quite unbothered that companies like TVR have gone to the wall. Bully for you.
As for me not liking Porsches, you're all just going to have to live with it I'm afraid.
You’re taking me the wrong way mate; I wondered if you'd actually driven them, that's all. No offensive intendedI'm really happy for anyone that likes both. And I'm envious of people who don't give a stuff where their car is built, quite unbothered that companies like TVR have gone to the wall. Bully for you.
As for me not liking Porsches, you're all just going to have to live with it I'm afraid.
Sorry I've done the whole 'why I don't like 911s' explanation to death. I can't be arsed to go into it again. I'd much rather discuss the Evora S.
But I have driven a turbo 'fully lit' as you put it. A 996 Turbo with 550bhp as it happens. Among other things, I lapped the nurburgring in it. It remains one of the fastest cars I've ever driven.
But I have driven a turbo 'fully lit' as you put it. A 996 Turbo with 550bhp as it happens. Among other things, I lapped the nurburgring in it. It remains one of the fastest cars I've ever driven.
Just driven a standard evora, the build quality is fine, the dealership spot on, superb drive with sports exhaust, sounded great. The gear change and gearbox were also perfect, running costs and depreciation should be on a par with other lotus cars which all beat the rivals. I don't see what everybody is moaning about.
seashell said:
Just driven a standard evora, the build quality is fine, the dealership spot on, superb drive with sports exhaust, sounded great. The gear change and gearbox were also perfect, running costs and depreciation should be on a par with other lotus cars which all beat the rivals. I don't see what everybody is moaning about.
You waited 21 months for that?SS7
seashell said:
Just driven a standard evora, the build quality is fine, the dealership spot on, superb drive with sports exhaust, sounded great. The gear change and gearbox were also perfect, running costs and depreciation should be on a par with other lotus cars which all beat the rivals. I don't see what everybody is moaning about.
There's always one! kambites said:
5 USA said:
Fact is - the car business is rapidly polarising between "white goods" and "bling".
I'm not sure that it's a new thing? I think that's always been the case.Overall, the gap between the top and the bottom of the market is much wider than it used to be. The bottom has come "down" and the top has gone "up".
Drove the Evora on Sat with salesman (who is a Lotus instructor) over a range of roads.
Very impressive car.
Quiet, superb ride, wonderful steering feel and telepathic handling. It's like a shrunken luxury car with real sports car handling and dynamics.
Engine was suprisingly grunty, but no doubt the Evora S will be much better.
Gearbox was OK if a bit too far away for me.
Engine and exhaust noise disappointing, but again the S should sort that out.
On top of all that, people let you out of junctions.
Very impressive car.
Quiet, superb ride, wonderful steering feel and telepathic handling. It's like a shrunken luxury car with real sports car handling and dynamics.
Engine was suprisingly grunty, but no doubt the Evora S will be much better.
Gearbox was OK if a bit too far away for me.
Engine and exhaust noise disappointing, but again the S should sort that out.
On top of all that, people let you out of junctions.
Glad you enjoyed it. The Evora is far from perfect but it's impressive how a small company from Norfolk can take on and in some areas beat the well funded establishment. The greatest compliment paid the Evora to date was from the Ferrari engineer on the 458 launch who asked a british journalist how he thought the 458's steering compared with the Evora.
How did you get on with the Elise SC?
How did you get on with the Elise SC?
The Pits said:
How did you get on with the Elise SC?
Elise SC didn't feel as fast as I thought it would. Still great fun, but too raw and too noisy for a soft old fart like me. I really like the shape though.The ride was substantially more fidgety than the Evora and the steering feel less 'pure'. I suspect that the tyre pressures weren't quite right though. Also, dealer does not have demo, so can't have unaccompanied test drives, unlike the Evora S (to come).
You sit very low in an Elise, and although it feels snug and would be fanstastic on track, it would not work so well in A roads and M-ways passing huge lorries.
I didn't spend enough time in an Elise to come to a definitive conclusion, but the Evora is more what I am looking for to replace the Boxster.
For a standard road car my Elise is amazing on the track.
Sfo I also found the Elise sc to feel not quite as fast as i'd hoped. The 'r' feels as fast but for a shorter time if that makes any sense. The 'r' is more fun but the sc more effective. Again you'd be amazed what difference a naughty pipe makes.
Sfo I also found the Elise sc to feel not quite as fast as i'd hoped. The 'r' feels as fast but for a shorter time if that makes any sense. The 'r' is more fun but the sc more effective. Again you'd be amazed what difference a naughty pipe makes.
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