Why hasn't the 370z worked?
Discussion
I think there are probably a number of reasons why the 350 and 370Z didn't sell as well as cars like the E46 M3 and RX8.
Badge I can't really comment on, because image and badge don't interest me and I also don't have my finger on the pulse of fashions, trends etc. I'll leave that for others to comment on.
Reviews I can comment on, as I read some car mags and occasionally watch Top Gear. I seem to remember the M3 and RX8 getting raved about, but less so the 350 and 370Z. I think this has a bigger effect on car sales than people here realise. Most of us on PH are proper petrolheads, so we have our own opinions gained from driving cars and learning about cars - if you're not a proper petrolhead (99.9% of the buying public, even for a sports car like the Z), then you just have to rely on reviews. Much like me buying an oven; I like cooking, I use my oven every day, but I haven't got a clue what's good and bad in the shops and have to rely on reviews instead. Clarkson can make or break a car. Sure, the Zs haven't had bad reviews, but they didn't really hit the headlines enough to make people want to do without the rear seats or other practical things that might have put them off.
How they drive I've only driven the 350Z, not the 370Z, but I personally didn't like the way it drove. I liked the engine, the handling was fairly good too, and I'm certain that being a Nissan it'll be built well too (although it looked a bit cheap inside, I must admit). I was a fan of the 200SX, so was looking forward to trying the 350Z. However, the throttle response at the top of the pedal was jumpy, and the steering was very heavy without much feel to it. It felt like a muscle car, rather than a sports car, and us Brits tend to like cars that feel a bit more agile (Caterham, Lotus, MX5, MR2). I'm not saying it wasn't agile, I'm just saying that the controls gave it the feel of being overweight, and feel is what it's all about on the public road.
Practicality
The M3 and RX8 mentioned above have four seats and most people have kids or stuff to cart around. Two seater sports cars do not sell very well - there was an article in Evo a few months back that stated, quite shockingly, than a particular new model of Range Rover had sold in greater numbers than Lotus, Aston, Porsche's sports cars, Caterham, Ferrari, Maserati etc put together. Sports cars are actually a fairly rare sight if you look around you on the roads.
I reckon the poor sales are a combination of all of the above. I wouldn't like to guess at the proportions of each reason. If I had to guess I'd say it was a combination of the practicality and the lack of rave reviews.
Badge I can't really comment on, because image and badge don't interest me and I also don't have my finger on the pulse of fashions, trends etc. I'll leave that for others to comment on.
Reviews I can comment on, as I read some car mags and occasionally watch Top Gear. I seem to remember the M3 and RX8 getting raved about, but less so the 350 and 370Z. I think this has a bigger effect on car sales than people here realise. Most of us on PH are proper petrolheads, so we have our own opinions gained from driving cars and learning about cars - if you're not a proper petrolhead (99.9% of the buying public, even for a sports car like the Z), then you just have to rely on reviews. Much like me buying an oven; I like cooking, I use my oven every day, but I haven't got a clue what's good and bad in the shops and have to rely on reviews instead. Clarkson can make or break a car. Sure, the Zs haven't had bad reviews, but they didn't really hit the headlines enough to make people want to do without the rear seats or other practical things that might have put them off.
How they drive I've only driven the 350Z, not the 370Z, but I personally didn't like the way it drove. I liked the engine, the handling was fairly good too, and I'm certain that being a Nissan it'll be built well too (although it looked a bit cheap inside, I must admit). I was a fan of the 200SX, so was looking forward to trying the 350Z. However, the throttle response at the top of the pedal was jumpy, and the steering was very heavy without much feel to it. It felt like a muscle car, rather than a sports car, and us Brits tend to like cars that feel a bit more agile (Caterham, Lotus, MX5, MR2). I'm not saying it wasn't agile, I'm just saying that the controls gave it the feel of being overweight, and feel is what it's all about on the public road.
Practicality
The M3 and RX8 mentioned above have four seats and most people have kids or stuff to cart around. Two seater sports cars do not sell very well - there was an article in Evo a few months back that stated, quite shockingly, than a particular new model of Range Rover had sold in greater numbers than Lotus, Aston, Porsche's sports cars, Caterham, Ferrari, Maserati etc put together. Sports cars are actually a fairly rare sight if you look around you on the roads.
I reckon the poor sales are a combination of all of the above. I wouldn't like to guess at the proportions of each reason. If I had to guess I'd say it was a combination of the practicality and the lack of rave reviews.
Olivera said:
Fastdruid said:
The RX-8 had less power, worse economy and sold by the bucket load (which is also more than anything else why they are dirt cheap now in comparison to the equivalent age 350Z).
I once figured out that despite the hate the RX-8 (in this country) sold more than the entire combined sales of the 350Z, 370Z, S2000, BRZ and GT86!
The RX-8 sold by the bucket load from 2003 until 2006 when the road tax rules changed to c02 based, afterwards it sold relatively fI once figured out that despite the hate the RX-8 (in this country) sold more than the entire combined sales of the 350Z, 370Z, S2000, BRZ and GT86!
k all.2004 was the peak for both. 5.4k 231 RX-8's and 3.6k 192 RX-8's against 2.2k 350Z's. Over 4 times as many RX-8's sold.
danp said:
Tonberry said:
More nonsense being spouted here.
The fuel economy is the same as an E46 M3. The power is the same.
The M3 was sold by the bucket load.
Why? Badge.
The 370Z also falls into a nasty VED bracket.
m3 being a 4 seater also helped lots I'd say.The fuel economy is the same as an E46 M3. The power is the same.
The M3 was sold by the bucket load.
Why? Badge.
The 370Z also falls into a nasty VED bracket.
I've seen more 350 and 370Zs than Z4 Coupés, or at least similar - the BMW didn't vastly outsell the Nissan. Both cars are very similar on paper. The M3 sold because it has four seats.otolith said:
Even the early coupes feel like heavy cars, though.
I think that is control weight, at least in part, my 944 was pretty stiff control wise and that was quite a bit lighter, Golf GTI Mk2s had pretty meaty unassisted steering which gave a feeling of heft, despite not being much more than 1100 kilos.Nissan are masters at cars with light steering, auto boxes and light controls, they didn't do that with the 350Z, it is all intentional, I am sure they could have made the control weights light as a feather, wonder how much that would have affected perception of the cars kerb weight.
Also, power delivery may count against it, though torquey, the bulk is higher up the rev range, 4500 peak, where people are getting used to turbo engines with similar or more torque, much lower down, I find that a blown engine imbues a feeling of effortless performance, even in heavy cars, our Galaxy pulls very well at not many revs making 1700/1800 kilos move seemingly easily, up to a point when you run out of revs.
All that, and they are pretty heavy when all and and done.
Fastdruid said:
The RX-8 had less power, worse economy and sold by the bucket load (which is also more than anything else why they are dirt cheap now in comparison to the equivalent age 350Z).
I once figured out that despite the hate the RX-8 (in this country) sold more than the entire combined sales of the 350Z, 370Z, S2000, BRZ and GT86!
The RX-8 is about a billion times more practical given it has a boot and four seats, so not really comparible I don't think. The price of them is also down to the perceived fear of the fragility of the engines, coupled with woeful fuel economy.I once figured out that despite the hate the RX-8 (in this country) sold more than the entire combined sales of the 350Z, 370Z, S2000, BRZ and GT86!
otolith said:
And massive oversupply. And punitive VED on the newer ones.
350Z engines almost never break and RX8 ones, well, don't want to get into that.350Z is more niche due to the lack of pews, the RX8 could be justified to a spouse as you can get the kids in, no amount of persuasion will convince anyone you can get them in a 350Z.
On the weight thing, do we ever hear Q7, XC90, Discvovery, RR, RRS, Cayenne or similar drivers complaining about how heavy their cars feel ?
I would say not, drive any of the above, they don't feel like 3 tonnes, they feel lighter than a 350Z to drive.
Not sure most of the public, and a lot of petrolheads can really tell much difference, most of the time.
I would say not, drive any of the above, they don't feel like 3 tonnes, they feel lighter than a 350Z to drive.
Not sure most of the public, and a lot of petrolheads can really tell much difference, most of the time.
dme123 said:
How many cars with 3.5 litre petrol engines of all sorts do they sell? There aren't really many direct competitors for the 350Z, I'd say most TTs etc. are sold with stty little 4 pots or diesel engines.
The obvious alternatives in terms of power/running costs are all much more expensive, so it does seem to sit in a niche all of it's own.
ETA - Not sure the UK is really the target market. It probably only exists in RHD because of the Japanese origins.
Just came back from two weeks in the states and 370's are all over then place there. No fuel bill or road tax worries!tty little 4 pots or diesel engines.The obvious alternatives in terms of power/running costs are all much more expensive, so it does seem to sit in a niche all of it's own.
ETA - Not sure the UK is really the target market. It probably only exists in RHD because of the Japanese origins.
J4CKO said:
350Z is more niche due to the lack of pews, the RX8 could be justified to a spouse as you can get the kids in, no amount of persuasion will convince anyone you can get them in a 350Z.
The aboveI like the 350z/370z but 2-seaters are not useful to me
The GT86 rear seats were also impractical with a 12yo and 10yo and I'm mot particularly tall.
Just wouldn't have been feasible to use for holidays etc
I do like the car itself
Shame really as other shorter rwd 2-doors with 5 seats have been sold in the past
LasseV said:
XJSJohn said:
the 370Z is lighter than the 350Z. To be fair its not a superlegera, its intended as a GT / Muscle Car, but 1,440KG isn't too bad for a big engine and all the electric gubbins modern day motorist asks for!
Is it really that "light"? Damn, yeah you are right it's not that much overweight.Can't remember how 'optioned up' they were
Working on a 350Z, you can see where the weight it, everything is very substantial under there, the gearbox is huge, old Ford and VW boxes I remember working on I could lower onto my chest, I suspect the one in a 350Z would kill you if you tried it.
The doors feel heavy, the seats are pretty big electric jobs.
Its funny though, they have put a carbon prop in them, not sure if it was for weight saving but if it is, seems a bit of a token gesture. I suppose if they got more exotic with the materials it would be a 50k car, not a 30k car.
The doors feel heavy, the seats are pretty big electric jobs.
Its funny though, they have put a carbon prop in them, not sure if it was for weight saving but if it is, seems a bit of a token gesture. I suppose if they got more exotic with the materials it would be a 50k car, not a 30k car.
hornetrider said:
Fastdruid said:
The RX-8 had less power, worse economy and sold by the bucket load (which is also more than anything else why they are dirt cheap now in comparison to the equivalent age 350Z).
I once figured out that despite the hate the RX-8 (in this country) sold more than the entire combined sales of the 350Z, 370Z, S2000, BRZ and GT86!
The RX-8 is about a billion times more practical given it has a boot and four seats, so not really comparible I don't think. The price of them is also down to the perceived fear of the fragility of the engines, coupled with woeful fuel economy.I once figured out that despite the hate the RX-8 (in this country) sold more than the entire combined sales of the 350Z, 370Z, S2000, BRZ and GT86!
There are Porsche's, Subaru's and BMW's with more fragile engines (and that cost a lot more to fix), RX-7's are just as "fragile" (if not even worse in turbo guise) yet they are valuable because of the low numbers. With ~24k sold there are a lot out there so overall demand is low. Give it 10 years for the numbers to drop and prices will go up.
Shortly after we bought ours they proposed the second round of VED changes and at the same time petrol went through the roof. The values of our car went through the floor. When petrol prices fell, values went up!
Lets be honest, if it was zero rated for VED and did 99mpg they would be selling like hot cakes even if they needed a rebuild every 20k.
The car itself is a curious one, seeing worldwide sales figures it actually doesnt sell too badly, or isnt this year anyways, I dont have the figures to hand but im sure it had sold in more numbers than caymans worlwide so far this year.
In the UK it will be running costs and practicality based, the amount of people who are willing to have a 2 seat only car in the household is a diminishing market to say the least, the people who would have a 2 seat as a second car typically (typically those that buy new) will probably be in the budget range of Caymans/F-types etc.
I bought a brand new 370z 15 months ago, ive done 15,500miles in it and its been a great car so far, the downsides:
Utterly impractical
Handling when pushing on does go all to pot (im sure its weight related)
Fuel consumption is to be fair a joke, mines averaging 19mpg and I drive it like a fairy
Engine as good as it is in many ways does not like to be revved and sounds awful high up the rev range
The only reason I bought one is im fortunate as to where im currently living fuel is 26p a litre, would I have bought a new one in the UK, absolutely no chance at all. VED on top of fuel consumption as a daily driver would have been an instant no.
Would I change the car all the above being said, no. The positives:
Mines a basic spec and is what it is, a car to get in and drive, no parking sensors, no distracting navigation nothing just the car
The engine is full of torque low down and mid range
Great overall drive (no such thing as country roads where I live so the on limit handling is no issue)
Its a perfectly comfortable and enjoyable car to cover distances in, which is what I need
Does still turn heads with the looks (I still dont like the back end design however)
Not a single squeak, rattle or creak from it as of yet
Cheap to service, just done the 25,000km service cost all of 60quid
The cars a breed that will vanish soon, no start stop bks, no brake regeneration just a good old fashioned drivers car with a normally aspirated engine in it. What would I change it for, either a Camaro ZL1 or an Ftype coupe V6 S neither of which are NA but the choice unless go for an older car is non existant in the real world, however id keep the 370z and I cant afford either of the other two at the moment.
In the UK it will be running costs and practicality based, the amount of people who are willing to have a 2 seat only car in the household is a diminishing market to say the least, the people who would have a 2 seat as a second car typically (typically those that buy new) will probably be in the budget range of Caymans/F-types etc.
I bought a brand new 370z 15 months ago, ive done 15,500miles in it and its been a great car so far, the downsides:
Utterly impractical
Handling when pushing on does go all to pot (im sure its weight related)
Fuel consumption is to be fair a joke, mines averaging 19mpg and I drive it like a fairy
Engine as good as it is in many ways does not like to be revved and sounds awful high up the rev range
The only reason I bought one is im fortunate as to where im currently living fuel is 26p a litre, would I have bought a new one in the UK, absolutely no chance at all. VED on top of fuel consumption as a daily driver would have been an instant no.
Would I change the car all the above being said, no. The positives:
Mines a basic spec and is what it is, a car to get in and drive, no parking sensors, no distracting navigation nothing just the car
The engine is full of torque low down and mid range
Great overall drive (no such thing as country roads where I live so the on limit handling is no issue)
Its a perfectly comfortable and enjoyable car to cover distances in, which is what I need
Does still turn heads with the looks (I still dont like the back end design however)
Not a single squeak, rattle or creak from it as of yet
Cheap to service, just done the 25,000km service cost all of 60quid
The cars a breed that will vanish soon, no start stop b
ks, no brake regeneration just a good old fashioned drivers car with a normally aspirated engine in it. What would I change it for, either a Camaro ZL1 or an Ftype coupe V6 S neither of which are NA but the choice unless go for an older car is non existant in the real world, however id keep the 370z and I cant afford either of the other two at the moment.After_Shock said:
The car itself is a curious one, seeing worldwide sales figures it actually doesnt sell too badly, or isnt this year anyways, I dont have the figures to hand but im sure it had sold in more numbers than caymans worlwide so far this year.
In the UK it will be running costs and practicality based, the amount of people who are willing to have a 2 seat only car in the household is a diminishing market to say the least, the people who would have a 2 seat as a second car typically (typically those that buy new) will probably be in the budget range of Caymans/F-types etc.
I bought a brand new 370z 15 months ago, ive done 15,500miles in it and its been a great car so far, the downsides:
Utterly impractical
Handling when pushing on does go all to pot (im sure its weight related)
Fuel consumption is to be fair a joke, mines averaging 19mpg and I drive it like a fairy
Engine as good as it is in many ways does not like to be revved and sounds awful high up the rev range
The only reason I bought one is im fortunate as to where im currently living fuel is 26p a litre, would I have bought a new one in the UK, absolutely no chance at all. VED on top of fuel consumption as a daily driver would have been an instant no.
Would I change the car all the above being said, no. The positives:
Mines a basic spec and is what it is, a car to get in and drive, no parking sensors, no distracting navigation nothing just the car
The engine is full of torque low down and mid range
Great overall drive (no such thing as country roads where I live so the on limit handling is no issue)
Its a perfectly comfortable and enjoyable car to cover distances in, which is what I need
Does still turn heads with the looks (I still dont like the back end design however)
Not a single squeak, rattle or creak from it as of yet
Cheap to service, just done the 25,000km service cost all of 60quid
The cars a breed that will vanish soon, no start stop bks, no brake regeneration just a good old fashioned drivers car with a normally aspirated engine in it. What would I change it for, either a Camaro ZL1 or an Ftype coupe V6 S neither of which are NA but the choice unless go for an older car is non existant in the real world, however id keep the 370z and I cant afford either of the other two at the moment.
In what way does the handling go to pot ? not saying it doesnt, just never driven mine that fast ont he road and not been on track.In the UK it will be running costs and practicality based, the amount of people who are willing to have a 2 seat only car in the household is a diminishing market to say the least, the people who would have a 2 seat as a second car typically (typically those that buy new) will probably be in the budget range of Caymans/F-types etc.
I bought a brand new 370z 15 months ago, ive done 15,500miles in it and its been a great car so far, the downsides:
Utterly impractical
Handling when pushing on does go all to pot (im sure its weight related)
Fuel consumption is to be fair a joke, mines averaging 19mpg and I drive it like a fairy
Engine as good as it is in many ways does not like to be revved and sounds awful high up the rev range
The only reason I bought one is im fortunate as to where im currently living fuel is 26p a litre, would I have bought a new one in the UK, absolutely no chance at all. VED on top of fuel consumption as a daily driver would have been an instant no.
Would I change the car all the above being said, no. The positives:
Mines a basic spec and is what it is, a car to get in and drive, no parking sensors, no distracting navigation nothing just the car
The engine is full of torque low down and mid range
Great overall drive (no such thing as country roads where I live so the on limit handling is no issue)
Its a perfectly comfortable and enjoyable car to cover distances in, which is what I need
Does still turn heads with the looks (I still dont like the back end design however)
Not a single squeak, rattle or creak from it as of yet
Cheap to service, just done the 25,000km service cost all of 60quid
The cars a breed that will vanish soon, no start stop b
ks, no brake regeneration just a good old fashioned drivers car with a normally aspirated engine in it. What would I change it for, either a Camaro ZL1 or an Ftype coupe V6 S neither of which are NA but the choice unless go for an older car is non existant in the real world, however id keep the 370z and I cant afford either of the other two at the moment.This is what convinced me to get a 350Z and not a TT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl1PQ98ujo8
Agree they are a dinosaur.
J4CKO said:
In what way does the handling go to pot ? not saying it doesnt, just never driven mine that fast ont he road and not been on track.
Agree they are a dinosaur.
The best way to experience the handling going is a long sweeping tight bend that remains at the same angle, starting pushing the speed on and you can feel the front end literally moving about. Its difficult to describe in writing, not that it understeers or alters its angle of drive just can literally feel the car moving between the two front suspension mounts as if its flexing heavily. Doesn't inspire much confidence and im not sure how id feel about taking it on a track.Agree they are a dinosaur.
Its got masses of grip though and does stick to the road very well otherwise.
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