RE: No more cars from TVR, says Smolensky
Discussion
Despite what you may have heard, PH isn't full of company director millionaires. In fact barring the privelaged few, I imagine most struggle to balance their petrolhead tendencies with the realites of life, like eating. I am sure every red blooded petrol head would love to own something special, we just can't afford it.
What TVR did however and did very well was to offer supercar pace and stunning looks at a price which was affordable to the common man. This I think was the essentail appeal of it and is what caught the imagination of many a petrolhead. Unfortunately time, legislation, the EU, H&S and rising costs have all conspired to make it very diffucult now to make a reasonably priced sports car so what we have now are either very expensive "supercars" or the myriad of watered down sports car lites which are offered from many manufacturers.
There is no market for a 6 figure TVR as this price point is already well served. There is still a market for a reasonably priced TVR but the economics for the person making such a car just don't add up anymore. It's a sad state of affairs but I doubt very much that we will see the likes of TVR again.
What TVR did however and did very well was to offer supercar pace and stunning looks at a price which was affordable to the common man. This I think was the essentail appeal of it and is what caught the imagination of many a petrolhead. Unfortunately time, legislation, the EU, H&S and rising costs have all conspired to make it very diffucult now to make a reasonably priced sports car so what we have now are either very expensive "supercars" or the myriad of watered down sports car lites which are offered from many manufacturers.
There is no market for a 6 figure TVR as this price point is already well served. There is still a market for a reasonably priced TVR but the economics for the person making such a car just don't add up anymore. It's a sad state of affairs but I doubt very much that we will see the likes of TVR again.
A TVR has a personality, it has attitude, it has moods, it has good days and it has bad days. It's almost a living thing. The only other car I've owned that comes anywhere near it was a Lotus 7 (1963 vintage) 
That's why I love it. As the saying goes 'anything else is just a car'
And it's British. I don't care if it was designed on the back of a fag packet or built in a shed. I don't care if sometimes it doesn't want to come out to play. I'm not bothered that it isn't packed full of gadgets or electrickery. It's sitting outside the house now. It's the Chuck Norris of the car world... And it doesn't sleep... It waits
That's why I love it. As the saying goes 'anything else is just a car' And it's British. I don't care if it was designed on the back of a fag packet or built in a shed. I don't care if sometimes it doesn't want to come out to play. I'm not bothered that it isn't packed full of gadgets or electrickery. It's sitting outside the house now. It's the Chuck Norris of the car world... And it doesn't sleep... It waits
J4CKO said:
Who actually cares ?
Pistonheads faithful, and the few TVR owners that dont lurk on here for comfort, kind words and solidarity.
Petrolheads make up a small percentage of the population, I am sure a lot of people class themselves as car enthusiasts and will buy a "Sporty Car" but really the market is sewn up, for 50 to 100 grand you can get into an Audi R8, Porsche 911, Boxster, various Merc's and BMW's, all of which have had vast development programmes, a new Boxster gets fantastic reviews and realistically will be significantly more capable and approachable than any TVR, even the tame one (Tamora) was a bit of a nutter by most peoples standards.
Most sports car owners want the roof down experience, image, resale, usability, nice interior and reliability, thats a key thing and TVR's never really did that so well. They want some excitement and a Boxster will provide most with enough excitement and feedback without feeling like you are going to die imminently, TVR's have their place but it isnt with the general public, it is like people who go and buy a big Dog without reading up on the temperament and it eats them, normals dont and shouldnt buy them on a whim. Buying a TVR means you know the score, it isnt a car for the uninitiated and the initiated is a small market, an frankly most of us cant afford one or it doesnt fit into our lives, petrolheads who fancy one is not a big enough market on which to build a business case, good intentions and grass roots support dont sell units.
Like it or not, there just arent that many blokes (TVR is resolutely a blokes car, female owners exist and I salute them but they are statistically irrelevant) with 75 grand to drop on a "new" TVR, even a rehashed Griffith with a Corvette V8 in.
J4CKO's Ford Galaxy 2.0 Tdci Ghia (2007) Pistonheads faithful, and the few TVR owners that dont lurk on here for comfort, kind words and solidarity.
Petrolheads make up a small percentage of the population, I am sure a lot of people class themselves as car enthusiasts and will buy a "Sporty Car" but really the market is sewn up, for 50 to 100 grand you can get into an Audi R8, Porsche 911, Boxster, various Merc's and BMW's, all of which have had vast development programmes, a new Boxster gets fantastic reviews and realistically will be significantly more capable and approachable than any TVR, even the tame one (Tamora) was a bit of a nutter by most peoples standards.
Most sports car owners want the roof down experience, image, resale, usability, nice interior and reliability, thats a key thing and TVR's never really did that so well. They want some excitement and a Boxster will provide most with enough excitement and feedback without feeling like you are going to die imminently, TVR's have their place but it isnt with the general public, it is like people who go and buy a big Dog without reading up on the temperament and it eats them, normals dont and shouldnt buy them on a whim. Buying a TVR means you know the score, it isnt a car for the uninitiated and the initiated is a small market, an frankly most of us cant afford one or it doesnt fit into our lives, petrolheads who fancy one is not a big enough market on which to build a business case, good intentions and grass roots support dont sell units.
Like it or not, there just arent that many blokes (TVR is resolutely a blokes car, female owners exist and I salute them but they are statistically irrelevant) with 75 grand to drop on a "new" TVR, even a rehashed Griffith with a Corvette V8 in.
Bought for £20,000 at 11,000 miles.
Brilliant people mover, would recommend...
...eats tend to show water marks and some trim is a bit flimsy but much better than previous Sharan.
snigger!
I may have missed someone pointing it out in earlier posts, but surely it must be fate that it was announced Kickstarter is coming to the UK: BBC News the day before this tragic news. If PH'ers were serious about buying back the brand and having another go, that's the way to do it....
badgerracing said:
I may have missed someone pointing it out in earlier posts, but surely it must be fate that it was announced Kickstarter is coming to the UK: BBC News the day before this tragic news. If PH'ers were serious about buying back the brand and having another go, that's the way to do it....
Each person to donate £100 or more gets a free T-Shirt if the project is successful? 
Does he own the body design of the TVR ? Could a someone just copy the panels and slap that into a chassis ? Is the design of the chassis/measurements etc known.
Basically what would stop someone else from taking (For example) the Chimeara, building the car around a v8 lump and selling it under the name of something else (For example SGR?).
Even if the above wasn't possible I am sure that someone with enough money and the will could buy the design(s) from him and start making them again. (Where is Theo Pathitis when you need him ?)
Basically what would stop someone else from taking (For example) the Chimeara, building the car around a v8 lump and selling it under the name of something else (For example SGR?).
Even if the above wasn't possible I am sure that someone with enough money and the will could buy the design(s) from him and start making them again. (Where is Theo Pathitis when you need him ?)
CHIEF said:
It makes me so angry what this jumped up little a
hole did to TVR, Totally ruined one of the best (and few) manufacturers the UK has ever had.
God knows what Wheeler would have thought.
TVR was never a perfect sportscar but every time I see or hear a TVR I turn my head and its an absolute crying shame what has been done to this marque.
That little runt wants putting up against a wall and shooting and i'm sorry for being harsh there.
Spoilt russian bratt with more money than brains!! How many British car companies have been bought and decimated by their foreign owners. Also the likes of good solid SAAB being run down the drain by GM! Lets ignore the idiot and enjoy the legacy we have with our cars and continue to improve and use them! LONG LIVE OUR TVR'Shole did to TVR, Totally ruined one of the best (and few) manufacturers the UK has ever had.God knows what Wheeler would have thought.
TVR was never a perfect sportscar but every time I see or hear a TVR I turn my head and its an absolute crying shame what has been done to this marque.
That little runt wants putting up against a wall and shooting and i'm sorry for being harsh there.
OTOH one now sees the six figure sports car market choices being watered down as well as a result of legislation/being part of a major OEM and the gravity of the market shifting towards countries with not a lot of sports car/motor sport/ driving heritage. Flappy paddle boxes, electronic driving aids, electric power steering racks, oversize wheels and tyres, chav styling, extremely high limits that you'd never appraoch in the real world but little feedback or involvement.
Already many of us here could well afford more expensive machinery but have done the Porsche thing and found it boring, or have a TVR sitting next to their Aston and Q7 family wagon. By the way, the new Morgan Plus Eight costs upwards of 150,000 euro here and the Aero 8 range has long broken the 200,000 euro barrier. They're not selling by the boatload, but they do sell.
The other althernative would be a) a classic car and put up with having no grip, no brakes, constant fettling and the knowledge that using it in all weathers will prompt a very expensive body resto sooner or later (where with a TVR, at worst you'd swap or rebuild the chassis; small beer in comparison), or something like an Eagle E-type (>£200,000).
Already many of us here could well afford more expensive machinery but have done the Porsche thing and found it boring, or have a TVR sitting next to their Aston and Q7 family wagon. By the way, the new Morgan Plus Eight costs upwards of 150,000 euro here and the Aero 8 range has long broken the 200,000 euro barrier. They're not selling by the boatload, but they do sell.
The other althernative would be a) a classic car and put up with having no grip, no brakes, constant fettling and the knowledge that using it in all weathers will prompt a very expensive body resto sooner or later (where with a TVR, at worst you'd swap or rebuild the chassis; small beer in comparison), or something like an Eagle E-type (>£200,000).
It was all over in 2006. The myth of future car building was only perpetuated by the gullible (PH) fawningly reporting his ever more bizarre press releases as though they were fact.
In an industry where many have failed heroically to turn dream into reality the sadness here is that Smolenski didn't even have the dream.
In an industry where many have failed heroically to turn dream into reality the sadness here is that Smolenski didn't even have the dream.
Podie said:
hooperpaul said:
J4CKO's Ford Galaxy 2.0 Tdci Ghia (2007)
Bought for £20,000 at 11,000 miles.
Brilliant people mover, would recommend...
...eats tend to show water marks and some trim is a bit flimsy but much better than previous Sharan.
snigger!
Bought for £20,000 at 11,000 miles.
Brilliant people mover, would recommend...
...eats tend to show water marks and some trim is a bit flimsy but much better than previous Sharan.
snigger!
You'll have to explain that one...LukeSi said:
badgerracing said:
I may have missed someone pointing it out in earlier posts, but surely it must be fate that it was announced Kickstarter is coming to the UK: BBC News the day before this tragic news. If PH'ers were serious about buying back the brand and having another go, that's the way to do it....
Each person to donate £100 or more gets a free T-Shirt if the project is successful? 
badgerracing said:
I may have missed someone pointing it out in earlier posts, but surely it must be fate that it was announced Kickstarter is coming to the UK: BBC News the day before this tragic news. If PH'ers were serious about buying back the brand and having another go, that's the way to do it....
I scan read that & thought you meant Kickstart was coming back to the BBC.
zebedee said:
Am I understanding it right? So an entrepeneur puts my cash forwards to do something to make him money that I need to pay just the same amount as anyone else for?
That makes about as much sense as paying for banking services.
With things like games people who contribute usually get a free copy and other stuff. Obviously with a car company this wouldn't work however you could offer company branded merchandise such as clothes, keyrings, books, etc.That makes about as much sense as paying for banking services.
Just pop into W H Smiths, grab a Kit Car magazine, and you'll find quite a few kit car builders doing alright. This guy is a tt. The only bits he HAS to make original is the body and chassis. All the rest can be bought of the shelf. I reckon a basic car, with a decent engine, could be done for £50,000. I'm sure PH guys can easily think of a dozen examples of a low volume manufacturer who's being successful. How about selling outthe TVR name to one of them?
t. The only bits he HAS to make original is the body and chassis. All the rest can be bought of the shelf. I reckon a basic car, with a decent engine, could be done for £50,000. I'm sure PH guys can easily think of a dozen examples of a low volume manufacturer who's being successful. How about selling outthe TVR name to one of them?odyssey2200 said:
The fact is that it is becoming more and more difficult to justify building any car.
Even the big boys are joining forces to share costs.
Type approval and in particular the cost of meeting ever changing emissions standards are horrendously expensive as are things like crash testing.
The fact remains that while we can all lament the death of TVR we all share a part of the blame for it's demise.
We didn't buy anywhere near enough cars to keep them going.
All of you guys posting about how a "cheap TVR would sell" ask yourself this
If there was such a car how many of you would DEFINITELY but one?
Sports cars suffer from the baby polar bear syndrome.
Everyone sees one and goes "ahh, isn't that lovely" but no one wants to own one in reality.
Sensible post, sadly there was no saving TVR. As you say, it's very difficult to bring a car to production these days, even for established firms. Even the big boys are joining forces to share costs.
Type approval and in particular the cost of meeting ever changing emissions standards are horrendously expensive as are things like crash testing.
The fact remains that while we can all lament the death of TVR we all share a part of the blame for it's demise.
We didn't buy anywhere near enough cars to keep them going.
All of you guys posting about how a "cheap TVR would sell" ask yourself this
If there was such a car how many of you would DEFINITELY but one?
Sports cars suffer from the baby polar bear syndrome.
Everyone sees one and goes "ahh, isn't that lovely" but no one wants to own one in reality.
For this reason we must applaud McLaren for what they have done in bringing their first production car to market.
I'd be surprised if we see any new car companies formed in the future, my guess is that McLaren will be the last.
Zumbruk said:
TEKNOPUG said:
The issue is really how he managed to kill the business in the first place
It was already dying when he bought it. Wheeler stitched him up like a kipper.All very sad but when the business didn't react to the shinking market after the turn of the decade or modernsie in the 90s it was a sitting duck. Without the s6 issues it was put in no position to survive any kind of downturn whoever owned it.
The brand is totally unviable for anyone to produce under while NS owns it as he will demand a fee per unit that wipes out any margin and the price he would want to relinquish the brand wouldn't stack up against the number of units you could sell in the modern market.
Very, very sad but then as a TVR owner would you want anyone else coming along and making an arse of the brand and heritage? It's dead, let the fool keep the name because for as long as he holds the name and does nothing with it then no more damage can be done.
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