RE: Production Focus RS Breaks Cover
Discussion
Re: Engineers.
I can only assume these comments from people about what Ford Engineers would and would not like to do and accountants stopping them have never actually worked in an engineering company.
Firstly accountants would not have anything to do with a product design decision. Accountants will be involved in big investment decisions where the company is concerned about affordability of programs in terms of available numbers of people and plant which is fair as there is no point starting a program if you are going to run out of money half way through. The project has gone a head so the accounting department were indeed in favour of it.
I'm a design engineer, I have never met an accountant professionally in my company.
Product cost decisions will be made by the project, the project don't need an accountant to tell them that the total cost of delivering a vehicle should be less than the amount you plan to sell it at.
What the people on this thread are being is the marketing department. The marketing department will have gone away and established that the Ford badge and heritage could carry a sports car with a price of £25k. They will have wanted it to be 4WD and feature ceramic brakes and a carbon fibre roof.
It is the engineering department that will have gone away and said, fine it can be 4WD but it will weigh 100kg more, arrive a year later (and consquently have a year less time to pay for the additional design work) and require twice as many man hours. Can we increase the price to get the profit margin back? Answer from marketing, No people won't pay any more for it.
Decision made.
As an aside it was an engineer who had sufficient authority to ride roughshod over any advice from marketing that brought FWD cars on to the market in the first place. BMWs are rear wheel drive because the marketing department say they should be not because the engineers want them to be apart from the larger engined variants most of their models don't really gain anything from being RWD.
I can only assume these comments from people about what Ford Engineers would and would not like to do and accountants stopping them have never actually worked in an engineering company.
Firstly accountants would not have anything to do with a product design decision. Accountants will be involved in big investment decisions where the company is concerned about affordability of programs in terms of available numbers of people and plant which is fair as there is no point starting a program if you are going to run out of money half way through. The project has gone a head so the accounting department were indeed in favour of it.
I'm a design engineer, I have never met an accountant professionally in my company.
Product cost decisions will be made by the project, the project don't need an accountant to tell them that the total cost of delivering a vehicle should be less than the amount you plan to sell it at.
What the people on this thread are being is the marketing department. The marketing department will have gone away and established that the Ford badge and heritage could carry a sports car with a price of £25k. They will have wanted it to be 4WD and feature ceramic brakes and a carbon fibre roof.
It is the engineering department that will have gone away and said, fine it can be 4WD but it will weigh 100kg more, arrive a year later (and consquently have a year less time to pay for the additional design work) and require twice as many man hours. Can we increase the price to get the profit margin back? Answer from marketing, No people won't pay any more for it.
Decision made.
As an aside it was an engineer who had sufficient authority to ride roughshod over any advice from marketing that brought FWD cars on to the market in the first place. BMWs are rear wheel drive because the marketing department say they should be not because the engineers want them to be apart from the larger engined variants most of their models don't really gain anything from being RWD.
dgboxer123 said:
Jespin said:
The hot hatch reported by Sutcliffe to lap the Ring in 8m 17s is supposedly not the new RS but actually the Megane R26-R. Seems it's going to break the records for a hot hatch by all accounts...
Not saying you are wrong but how did you get that - I'd heard it referred to the Focus . . ?Talksteer said:
Re: Engineers.
I can only assume these comments from people about what Ford Engineers would and would not like to do and accountants stopping them have never actually worked in an engineering company.
Firstly accountants would not have anything to do with a product design decision. Accountants will be involved in big investment decisions where the company is concerned about affordability of programs in terms of available numbers of people and plant which is fair as there is no point starting a program if you are going to run out of money half way through. The project has gone a head so the accounting department were indeed in favour of it.
I'm a design engineer, I have never met an accountant professionally in my company.
Product cost decisions will be made by the project, the project don't need an accountant to tell them that the total cost of delivering a vehicle should be less than the amount you plan to sell it at.
What the people on this thread are being is the marketing department. The marketing department will have gone away and established that the Ford badge and heritage could carry a sports car with a price of £25k. They will have wanted it to be 4WD and feature ceramic brakes and a carbon fibre roof.
It is the engineering department that will have gone away and said, fine it can be 4WD but it will weigh 100kg more, arrive a year later (and consquently have a year less time to pay for the additional design work) and require twice as many man hours. Can we increase the price to get the profit margin back? Answer from marketing, No people won't pay any more for it.
Decision made.
As an aside it was an engineer who had sufficient authority to ride roughshod over any advice from marketing that brought FWD cars on to the market in the first place. BMWs are rear wheel drive because the marketing department say they should be not because the engineers want them to be apart from the larger engined variants most of their models don't really gain anything from being RWD.
Whatever you want to call the person who budgets how much a car costs to produce is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is Ford is no where near as profitable as it once was hence it sold Range Rover and Jag to TATA, therefore had to cut cost with the RS = FWD. I can only assume these comments from people about what Ford Engineers would and would not like to do and accountants stopping them have never actually worked in an engineering company.
Firstly accountants would not have anything to do with a product design decision. Accountants will be involved in big investment decisions where the company is concerned about affordability of programs in terms of available numbers of people and plant which is fair as there is no point starting a program if you are going to run out of money half way through. The project has gone a head so the accounting department were indeed in favour of it.
I'm a design engineer, I have never met an accountant professionally in my company.
Product cost decisions will be made by the project, the project don't need an accountant to tell them that the total cost of delivering a vehicle should be less than the amount you plan to sell it at.
What the people on this thread are being is the marketing department. The marketing department will have gone away and established that the Ford badge and heritage could carry a sports car with a price of £25k. They will have wanted it to be 4WD and feature ceramic brakes and a carbon fibre roof.
It is the engineering department that will have gone away and said, fine it can be 4WD but it will weigh 100kg more, arrive a year later (and consquently have a year less time to pay for the additional design work) and require twice as many man hours. Can we increase the price to get the profit margin back? Answer from marketing, No people won't pay any more for it.
Decision made.
As an aside it was an engineer who had sufficient authority to ride roughshod over any advice from marketing that brought FWD cars on to the market in the first place. BMWs are rear wheel drive because the marketing department say they should be not because the engineers want them to be apart from the larger engined variants most of their models don't really gain anything from being RWD.
Other car companies can design their own 4WD system and still sell cars at 25k and make profit. I understand why Ford chose FWD in their position but it doesn’t change the fact that it is just a compromise in a 300hp car.
Anyway this FWD vs 4WD is getting boring. If your happy getting a 300hp FWD car just go and buy one!
Edited by sjt28 on Saturday 5th July 20:16
I cant help but feel that this 4WD v FWD argument is largely irrelevant in some ways. The question should be, is it going to be any good. You never know, it might actually be genuinely very good, although I realise that might be hard for some of the anti-FWD snobs on here to admit.
Fact is nobody knows yet whether this is any good or not. I agree on the surface 300 bhp with FWD seems like it may be a compromise but you just never know. It wasnt so long ago people were saying more than 200 bhp in a FWD car is totally unusable, and there has now been many FWD cars with a lot more than that...
Fact is nobody knows yet whether this is any good or not. I agree on the surface 300 bhp with FWD seems like it may be a compromise but you just never know. It wasnt so long ago people were saying more than 200 bhp in a FWD car is totally unusable, and there has now been many FWD cars with a lot more than that...
Talksteer said:
Re: Engineers.
I can only assume these comments from people about what Ford Engineers would and would not like to do and accountants stopping them have never actually worked in an engineering company.
Firstly accountants would not have anything to do with a product design decision. Accountants will be involved in big investment decisions where the company is concerned about affordability of programs in terms of available numbers of people and plant which is fair as there is no point starting a program if you are going to run out of money half way through. The project has gone a head so the accounting department were indeed in favour of it.
I'm a design engineer, I have never met an accountant professionally in my company.
Product cost decisions will be made by the project, the project don't need an accountant to tell them that the total cost of delivering a vehicle should be less than the amount you plan to sell it at.
What the people on this thread are being is the marketing department. The marketing department will have gone away and established that the Ford badge and heritage could carry a sports car with a price of £25k. They will have wanted it to be 4WD and feature ceramic brakes and a carbon fibre roof.
It is the engineering department that will have gone away and said, fine it can be 4WD but it will weigh 100kg more, arrive a year later (and consquently have a year less time to pay for the additional design work) and require twice as many man hours. Can we increase the price to get the profit margin back? Answer from marketing, No people won't pay any more for it.
Decision made.
As an aside it was an engineer who had sufficient authority to ride roughshod over any advice from marketing that brought FWD cars on to the market in the first place. BMWs are rear wheel drive because the marketing department say they should be not because the engineers want them to be apart from the larger engined variants most of their models don't really gain anything from being RWD.
Well said that man!I can only assume these comments from people about what Ford Engineers would and would not like to do and accountants stopping them have never actually worked in an engineering company.
Firstly accountants would not have anything to do with a product design decision. Accountants will be involved in big investment decisions where the company is concerned about affordability of programs in terms of available numbers of people and plant which is fair as there is no point starting a program if you are going to run out of money half way through. The project has gone a head so the accounting department were indeed in favour of it.
I'm a design engineer, I have never met an accountant professionally in my company.
Product cost decisions will be made by the project, the project don't need an accountant to tell them that the total cost of delivering a vehicle should be less than the amount you plan to sell it at.
What the people on this thread are being is the marketing department. The marketing department will have gone away and established that the Ford badge and heritage could carry a sports car with a price of £25k. They will have wanted it to be 4WD and feature ceramic brakes and a carbon fibre roof.
It is the engineering department that will have gone away and said, fine it can be 4WD but it will weigh 100kg more, arrive a year later (and consquently have a year less time to pay for the additional design work) and require twice as many man hours. Can we increase the price to get the profit margin back? Answer from marketing, No people won't pay any more for it.
Decision made.
As an aside it was an engineer who had sufficient authority to ride roughshod over any advice from marketing that brought FWD cars on to the market in the first place. BMWs are rear wheel drive because the marketing department say they should be not because the engineers want them to be apart from the larger engined variants most of their models don't really gain anything from being RWD.
Jespin said:
dgboxer123 said:
Jespin said:
The hot hatch reported by Sutcliffe to lap the Ring in 8m 17s is supposedly not the new RS but actually the Megane R26-R. Seems it's going to break the records for a hot hatch by all accounts...
Not saying you are wrong but how did you get that - I'd heard it referred to the Focus . . ?Polarbert said:
rjkm said:
300bhp in a FWD car isnt too much really ive got well over that in a car that weighs a lot less. i know of someone who has a fwd astra gsi turbo with 700 bhp. FWD is fun.
NightDriver said:
Talksteer said:
Re: Engineers.
I can only assume these comments from people about what Ford Engineers would and would not like to do and accountants stopping them have never actually worked in an engineering company.
Firstly accountants would not have anything to do with a product design decision. Accountants will be involved in big investment decisions where the company is concerned about affordability of programs in terms of available numbers of people and plant which is fair as there is no point starting a program if you are going to run out of money half way through. The project has gone a head so the accounting department were indeed in favour of it.
I'm a design engineer, I have never met an accountant professionally in my company.
Product cost decisions will be made by the project, the project don't need an accountant to tell them that the total cost of delivering a vehicle should be less than the amount you plan to sell it at.
What the people on this thread are being is the marketing department. The marketing department will have gone away and established that the Ford badge and heritage could carry a sports car with a price of £25k. They will have wanted it to be 4WD and feature ceramic brakes and a carbon fibre roof.
It is the engineering department that will have gone away and said, fine it can be 4WD but it will weigh 100kg more, arrive a year later (and consquently have a year less time to pay for the additional design work) and require twice as many man hours. Can we increase the price to get the profit margin back? Answer from marketing, No people won't pay any more for it.
Decision made.
As an aside it was an engineer who had sufficient authority to ride roughshod over any advice from marketing that brought FWD cars on to the market in the first place. BMWs are rear wheel drive because the marketing department say they should be not because the engineers want them to be apart from the larger engined variants most of their models don't really gain anything from being RWD.
Well said that man!I can only assume these comments from people about what Ford Engineers would and would not like to do and accountants stopping them have never actually worked in an engineering company.
Firstly accountants would not have anything to do with a product design decision. Accountants will be involved in big investment decisions where the company is concerned about affordability of programs in terms of available numbers of people and plant which is fair as there is no point starting a program if you are going to run out of money half way through. The project has gone a head so the accounting department were indeed in favour of it.
I'm a design engineer, I have never met an accountant professionally in my company.
Product cost decisions will be made by the project, the project don't need an accountant to tell them that the total cost of delivering a vehicle should be less than the amount you plan to sell it at.
What the people on this thread are being is the marketing department. The marketing department will have gone away and established that the Ford badge and heritage could carry a sports car with a price of £25k. They will have wanted it to be 4WD and feature ceramic brakes and a carbon fibre roof.
It is the engineering department that will have gone away and said, fine it can be 4WD but it will weigh 100kg more, arrive a year later (and consquently have a year less time to pay for the additional design work) and require twice as many man hours. Can we increase the price to get the profit margin back? Answer from marketing, No people won't pay any more for it.
Decision made.
As an aside it was an engineer who had sufficient authority to ride roughshod over any advice from marketing that brought FWD cars on to the market in the first place. BMWs are rear wheel drive because the marketing department say they should be not because the engineers want them to be apart from the larger engined variants most of their models don't really gain anything from being RWD.
views. At least you wrote your own commentary too, and didnt just cut and paste the techincal details of the new RS into your comment, trying to sound knowledgable.....doh!!!
300BHP, fords chassis design, torque steer 
, Black paint, lightly smoked windows, and that agressive styling.
I do hope I can manage to reduce my daily mileage by next year because this looks like a recipie for a great Hot Hatch. At the risk of being flamed 4wd is for girls, if they decide which 2 wheels to drive and make it good I'm a happy bunny.
, Black paint, lightly smoked windows, and that agressive styling. I do hope I can manage to reduce my daily mileage by next year because this looks like a recipie for a great Hot Hatch. At the risk of being flamed 4wd is for girls, if they decide which 2 wheels to drive and make it good I'm a happy bunny.
STASH1 said:
If front wheel drive is so great how come you never see it used in super cars or formula one for that matter ?
Fitness for purpose.In the same way you'd be hard pushed to find RWD on a sub £10k hatch.
Are people losing their in-built logic and common sense when they enter this thread or something?
Combover said:
STASH1 said:
If front wheel drive is so great how come you never see it used in super cars or formula one for that matter ?
Fitness for purpose.In the same way you'd be hard pushed to find RWD on a sub £10k hatch.
Are people losing their in-built logic and common sense when they enter this thread or something?
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